Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Jun 12, 2013
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argyllflyer said:
Schleck will be zero threat to the GC. Evans will hang in there but has shown little of the final few percent needed to be the last man standing. Cunego has become a stage hunter. The difference between Froome and the others you've named is he can sustain his final attack for the entirety of the time he chooses to go from, while the others - going by evidence of this season - cannot.

The nasty shock it would seem awaits you I'm afraid.
I don't expect schleck to fade into the distance with only a whimper. He's highly motivated to perform, more so than previous years. From my perspective he appears a lot stronger mentally and more determined, completely ignoring him would appear very foolish, ignorant or arrogant. Give someone like schleck an inch of freedom and he'll have minutes on froome. Same applies to evans. He has actually raced a similar amount to froome but has had a longer break so will be coming into the tour much fresher. His approach of doing the Giro Before the Tour is far from experimental and has resulted in several tdf podiums during those specific seasons.

All the rivals when attacking do not fade away like you have said. Just look at contador or rodriguez for example. I doubt either of them could win stages if they couldn't sustain an effort. It seems a very ignorant statement to me, especially to base a riders abilities purely on several races where they are clearly unfit.To beat someone like rodriguez, froome would have to attack from about 5kms out and sustain a very high effort. I've only seen froome once attack from more than a km out so far. Rodriguez has made his career off chasing down pathetic late race attacks like which froome commonly does. At both the tour and vuelta he has chased down attacks substantial from more than 3kms out and easily outsprinted the attacker. Saying froome would easily win is an uninformed statement.

As for why his rivals are unfit (with the exception of maybe contador) they're trying to finely tune their build up so that they can peak for the first mountain stages and not too early, plus hide their form. Do you really think these small races matter much to them?? You fail to see the bigger picture which is the tdf.

Meanwhile, Froome is coming in with a very high level, so is unlikely to improve more than by a few percent, while his rivals have a greater amount they can improve by. As for cunego, yes he has sadly become a stage hunter, but again you fail to see my point that froome would easily be beaten by him despite the fact that froome is being labelled as unbeatable. Sure froome has outsprinted specialists like evans, but evans was sick, rather than Froome actually being better. This year the parcours of the tour is less favourable for a team that tries to control the entire race like sky. The stars have aligned for froome, but as many good riders like Gilbert have found, they only align for a short period of time
 
nick101 said:
Everyone is sick of sky's boring style of racing. There's bound to be teams allying themselves against sky. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if a team blocked sky from moving to the front of the peleton, breaks with sky riders were chased down or sky was solely used to chase down a dangerous break. froome is in for a nasty shock if riders like rodriguez, cunego, evans, valverde, anton and dan martin are still with them when froome starts his usual final km sprint.
Such an "alliance" makes absolutely zero sense. Evans isn't racing "against Froome", he's racing for himself, and there's no way Anton or Valverde would harm their own chances to help Contador, regardless of how close they may be personally.

Of course Froome winning isn't a foregone conclusion, there's an infinite number of things that could happen to prevent it, starting with the question of whether his form is really there when it matters. But you're dreaming if you think such an anti-Sky bloc is even remotely possible.
 
nick101 said:
All the rivals when attacking do not fade away like you have said. Just look at contador or rodriguez for example. I doubt either of them could win stages if they couldn't sustain an effort. It seems a very ignorant statement to me, especially to base a riders abilities purely on several races where they are clearly unfit.
Sustaining the attack used to be Contador's biggest ace in the sleeve, but he hasn't shown this ability since his comeback.

To beat someone like rodriguez, froome would have to attack from about 5kms out and sustain a very high effort. I've only seen froome once attack from more than a km out so far. Rodriguez has made his career off chasing down pathetic late race attacks like which froome commonly does. At both the tour and vuelta he has chased down attacks substantial from more than 3kms out and easily outsprinted the attacker. Saying froome would easily win is an uninformed statement.
Putting aside the question of who would win the stage in such a duel between Froome and Rodriguez, you forget that Froome probably doesn't have to beat him to the stage to win the GC. I think, although Froome is a better climber, the setup is pretty similar to Wiggins in the Giro - either Froome dominates the TT and can give up time in the mountains if he has to, or he's not good enough to win anywhere anyway.
That said, it's hard to discuss that with someone who's clearly biased anyway. Froome's late attacks may be a lot of things, but they aren't pathetic. If you say something like that you are also ridiculing the performances of riders whom you do like, who weren't able to beat those "pathetic" attacks in the past.
 
Jun 12, 2013
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Actually such an alliance would make sense. By working together with other teams to disrupt sky, they are actually increasing their chance of a podium or winning. This alliance would allow their attacks to work. And froome to be more vunerable. Such an alliance between the three Spaniards was said to exist during last years vuelta. If it did exist, it clearly worked. And each Spaniard got a stage win and podium place for their efforts.

The reason why I say Froome's attacks are pathetic is because they're so predictable. He gets an armchair ride to the final km then attacks, same set up every race. Even with Armstrong who people are comparing to froome, at least Armstrong had the decency to attack at different times and not attack at the same point in every single race. If I see froome attack from more than 5kms out and not hide behind sky for at least one mtf, then my negative opinion of sky and froome will be nearly naught. But I can't see that happening anytime soon.
As for contador do you honestly expect him to be at the same level as he was at in the dauphine? that would be very naïve. His attacks will certainly be much better, just how much by, we'll have to wait til the tour.
 
You're just projecting your own hatred on pro cyclists, who I'm certain don't give a **** about that. Valverde wants to win himself. And while he'd prefer Contador to win instead of Froome, he's not going to sacrifice his own chances to make it happen. There was no such alliance against Armstrong, and there won't be today against Sky.

And regarding Contador: I've seen nothing so far to suggest he's stronger this year than last. Which doesn't mean it can't happen, but what you're saying is nothing but wishful thinking.
 
May 28, 2012
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nick101 said:
Actually such an alliance would make sense. By working together with other teams to disrupt sky, they are actually increasing their chance of a podium or winning. This alliance would allow their attacks to work. And froome to be more vunerable. Such an alliance between the three Spaniards was said to exist during last years vuelta. If it did exist, it clearly worked. And each Spaniard got a stage win and podium place for their efforts.

The reason why I say Froome's attacks are pathetic is because they're so predictable. He gets an armchair ride to the final km then attacks, same set up every race. Even with Armstrong who people are comparing to froome, at least Armstrong had the decency to attack at different times and not attack at the same point in every single race. If I see froome attack from more than 5kms out and not hide behind sky for at least one mtf, then my negative opinion of sky and froome will be nearly naught. But I can't see that happening anytime soon.
As for contador do you honestly expect him to be at the same level as he was at in the dauphine? that would be very naïve. His attacks will certainly be much better, just how much by, we'll have to wait til the tour.
The 'Spanish Alliance' only worked because of Froome's lack of form. In the first week it was clear that Froome would be a serious contender, if he'd keep his shape.

For now, each of the contender's 100% shape will only become apparent in the Tour, only then can we judge what they can really do. Normally both Froome and Contador will definitely have taken a step up since early June, I can guarentee you that. Perhaps Froome will risk more if he feels superior to the rest, attacking less predictably to force an early selection.
 
Jun 12, 2013
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The vuelta proved that froome could be broken. By working to attack him and forcing him to repeatedly respond they were able to break him. Breaking him at his current level will obviously require a lot more attacks and him to be isolated. Whether that can be done is another matter. If froome does change up his attacks and becomes more exciting and less predictable, I won't have any problems with him winning if he clearly is better than the other riders.
I can actually draw some parallels between froome and contador. At the 09 Paris-Nice, contador was broken, but at the tour the level required to do that again was impossible. Same situation could apply to froome
 
nick101 said:
hhhmmm interesting u mention rodriguez being under the radar. I never noticed him really but when I looked at the results him and Moreno finished together, both top ten on the last two mountain stages. don't forget schleck or evans :). andy is showing massive improvements every day he races plus he is going into the tour with everything to gain and nothing to lose which makes him extremely dangerous and unpredictable. Evans is able to hold a decent form year round so could be still decent also at the tour.

Everyone is sick of sky's boring style of racing. There's bound to be teams allying themselves against sky. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if a team blocked sky from moving to the front of the peleton, breaks with sky riders were chased down or sky was solely used to chase down a dangerous break. froome is in for a nasty shock if riders like rodriguez, cunego, evans, valverde, anton and dan martin are still with them when froome starts his usual final km sprint.
Do you think Froome will care if he loses seconds in the final few hundred metres sprint? Will most of the others only lose a few seconds in the TT? I very much doubt it. Froome will have minutes to play with, not seconds.
 
I find this 'Armada' talk quite funny. Do people honestly think Contador will be rooting for an Armada if he gets a sniff of the yellow jersey? I dont think so!

Whoever wins the Tour will be the best over the 3 weeks, its that simple. Froome is a worthy favourite however he has many challengers who can beat him if the perform to their best
 
Jun 12, 2013
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With riders like contador, valverde, mollema, evans, TJ and Quintana on form, froome may have only seconds to spare, so winning the sprint would be important. Assuming every gc rider except froome will be unfit and lose time in the tt or is a bad tt'er is nonsense. Froome loses similar time in a tt to that stage winner as most other gc riders. Plus bad tt'ers in the past like rodriguez have improved their tting for gts if there is a strong possibility of winning. I think rodriguez only lost just over a minute at last years giro tt from memory.
 
nick101 said:
With riders like contador, valverde, mollema, evans, TJ and Quintana on form, froome may have only seconds to spare, so winning the sprint would be important. Assuming every gc rider except froome will be unfit and lose time in the tt or is a bad tt'er is nonsense. Froome loses similar time in a tt to that stage winner as most other gc riders. Plus bad tt'ers in the past like rodriguez have improved their tting for gts if there is a strong possibility of winning. I think rodriguez only lost just over a minute at last years giro tt from memory.
I agree with you that many have improved, however over the course of 3 TT's (especially the middle flat TT) in this year's Tour I think riders like Purito will have a lot of time to make up. Im still not sure what team Katusha will bring bearing in mind there's a 25km TTT. Sky will be mega strong in that too though with Froome, Porte, EBH, Thomas and Kiri, possibly Stannard too?
 
Jun 12, 2013
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yup sky will have a very strong team collectively. However in most ttt's even with a strong team, the difference between 1st and last place can often be under a minute. The individual tt's will certainly make more difference unless the contender has a really weak team e.g. euskatel
 
nick101 said:
Actually such an alliance would make sense. By working together with other teams to disrupt sky, they are actually increasing their chance of a podium or winning. This alliance would allow their attacks to work. And froome to be more vunerable. Such an alliance between the three Spaniards was said to exist during last years vuelta. If it did exist, it clearly worked. And each Spaniard got a stage win and podium place for their efforts.

The reason why I say Froome's attacks are pathetic is because they're so predictable. He gets an armchair ride to the final km then attacks, same set up every race. Even with Armstrong who people are comparing to froome, at least Armstrong had the decency to attack at different times and not attack at the same point in every single race. If I see froome attack from more than 5kms out and not hide behind sky for at least one mtf, then my negative opinion of sky and froome will be nearly naught. But I can't see that happening anytime soon.
As for contador do you honestly expect him to be at the same level as he was at in the dauphine? that would be very naïve. His attacks will certainly be much better, just how much by, we'll have to wait til the tour.
Alberto was very predictable in most of his victorias as a profesional. Even moment as Telegrahe he was predictable...there is some excepcions in 10 years, that is true.

I didnt see predictable Froome in his attack in Oman.. and I didnt see him predictable as well in La Gallina in la Vuelta..he attacked after look really out...

Froome has a strong team so he dont need to do crazy moves, but he is all but predictable.

Contador will be clearly better than in dauphiné, always has been like that, but never was in the Tour better than in Basque country or other spring races.. and in this Tour with that level he has nothing to do for a podium place.
Contador will be better, but Purito and Valverde will be much better, and Froome will be better as well, and Evans will be better than in the Giro, and Hesjedal, etc...
 
Sep 9, 2009
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nick101 said:
Froome loses similar time in a tt to that stage winner as most other gc riders.
That's just a convoluted way of saying most other GC riders are as good at TT as Froome, which is obvious, 100% rubbish.

I can not believe people keep responding to this tripe (irony noted).
 
Jun 12, 2013
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
That's just a convoluted way of saying most other GC riders are as good at TT as Froome, which is obvious, 100% rubbish.

I can not believe people keep responding to this tripe (irony noted).
Froome loses about a minute to the itt winner, contador usually loses the same amount, same with most other decent gc riders. Look at last years results..... Whats rubbish about that?? If you think froome can gain minutes on solid tt'ers like TJ or contador, you are over estimating his abilities
I can't recall froome attacking in oman :confused:, maybe counter attacking, but not attacking. His chase back of rodriguez was impressive tho. More of that please :)
As for contador being predictable, the only thing predictable is that he will attack.
Over a 25km TTT it'd only take about 30mins so there isn't a huge possibility of gaining minutes
 
Pricey_sky said:
I find this 'Armada' talk quite funny. Do people honestly think Contador will be rooting for an Armada if he gets a sniff of the yellow jersey? I dont think so!

Whoever wins the Tour will be the best over the 3 weeks, its that simple. Froome is a worthy favourite however he has many challengers who can beat him if the perform to their best
But if Contador has a chance to win the race and the other Spanish riders have already faded, I think it's naive to think that the Spanish won't help each other because they always prefer one of their own to win. They won't sacrifice their own chances but only as long as they are in a position to win. If they are minutes down in the third week expect the Armada to group it's forces against the Anglo invaders. It's happened before.
 
Jun 12, 2013
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It happens more than what you think. It's ignorant to say there isn't a preference for someone of the same nationality. A specific example involving contador was at the 2011 giro. On the zoncolan, anton was away and contador had plenty of time. It would have been rude and selfish to pointlessly chase down anton and deny a country man of a well deserved stage win, so contador soft pedalled in the bunch and toyed with his rivals, only making a committed attack in the final km to drop nibali and confirm his dominance.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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nick101 said:
The vuelta proved that froome could be broken. By working to attack him and forcing him to repeatedly respond they were able to break him. Breaking him at his current level will obviously require a lot more attacks and him to be isolated. Whether that can be done is another matter. If froome does change up his attacks and becomes more exciting and less predictable, I won't have any problems with him winning if he clearly is better than the other riders.
I can actually draw some parallels between froome and contador. At the 09 Paris-Nice, contador was broken, but at the tour the level required to do that again was impossible. Same situation could apply to froome
All the Vuelta proved in regards to Froome is that a rider doesn't handle contending in back-to-back GT well. :eek: Definitely a shocking conclusion.
The Spaniards weren't working to attack Froome, they were attacking each other. There wasn't any alliance going on there. And unless Sky's hold of the race this year is so much that none of them can even contend for a stage win, then I don't see an alliance happening between them.
 
Mar 29, 2011
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Breaking news: some AC fans know Froome's Tour perfect preparation plan better than Froome himself and his coach team.

What it is saying to me about? Hm... Probably that Froome is on the right course.

:p
 
Mar 29, 2011
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The most probable scenario is any Sky rider gives a 500-1000m pull at Ax-3 , then Froome attacks from 3 to ago and gains 20+ sec. It plunges part of the forum into shock. I'm being absolutely serious.
 
Mar 29, 2011
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papafrog said:
All the Sky lovers seem to think it's a foregone conclusion for a Froome win.
There are no Sky lovers. Only enthusiastic (to all riders) jens_attacks and realists wwabbit and ContadaurusSchleck. I've been observing only 2 Froome fans so far, but looks like they are wise enough not to try to prove AC fans anything.

spalco said:
Such an "alliance" makes absolutely zero sense. Evans isn't racing "against Froome", he's racing for himself, and there's no way Anton or Valverde would harm their own chances to help Contador, regardless of how close they may be personally.
You didn't get him. All the riders dream of throwing themselves into boiling volcano of attacks for the sake of Contador. Evans never attacked for himself, but he's eager to start attacking against Froome. That's a big deal. :)


Armada never existed per se. Armada is just an anti Sky myth. There were just 3 riders who were stronger at that moment. They didn't act coordinately. Moreover only one of them was taking an attacking initiative. Froome lost the Vuelta not because of 'Armada'. He lost it because of himself regardless of opponents by and large. I'm absolutely sure, say, he could've lost 3 minutes to Cobo at Angliru, if he'd been on such a level of form. I remind in the 3rd week Froome had huge difficulties even to hold Talansky-Anton-Gesink grupetto. Was it because of Armada? Don't make my sneakers laugh.
 
Jun 9, 2012
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airstream said:
The most probable scenario is any Sky rider gives a 500-1000m pull at Ax-3 , then Froome attacks from 3 to ago and gains 20+ sec. It plunges part of the forum into shock. I'm being absolutely serious.
Why do you think this will be such a shock? It seems almost inevitable.
 

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