Yeah, I saw another of that crowd a couple years ago, also on Twitter, denying climate change. Puts things in perspective, doesn't it. Was almost glad about it, cause it meant that my instincts about these people didn't betray me.
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Yeah, funny enough that is EXACTLY what all the antivax loons say.
How about we don't take this discussion there.
So Chris tactically gave 17 minutes to Pog. Maybe a bit too much but one day UAE will want to get rid of the yellow and a huge break will form allowing Chris to gain 20 minutes. Afterwards Pogi will be very surprised that Chris doent lose time anymore...
Weirdness is all that us Froome fans have going.
I'd take it even wider. Not only fans, everything relating Froome has a tendency of instantly accreting with weirdness and conspiracy theories. In many people's mind he is a rider who's at 100% beholden to dark area for everything he achieved or didn't achieve in sports. Whatever place he was in a race rankings, the result has rarely explained by fitness level or training program quality.
It's really interesting thing going on with froome. I personnaly don't believe Israel would have signed him, had they not explored medical record previously. Obviously, Frooome was able to demonstrate elite or near-elite level only while being extremely lean. Why he failed to lose weight and restore muscle system ability 2 years after the crash to be somewhat competitive is what I don't understand.
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He crashed when he was 35 years old after 7 years at the top of the GT pack. He was not only old enough to be declining when he had a devastating crash, but top GT climbers never seem to be at peak powers for anywhere close to 10 years, which is where Froome would be now (2012-2022).I'd take it even wider. Not only fans, everything relating Froome has a tendency of instantly accreting with weirdness and conspiracy theories. In many people's mind he is a rider who's at 100% beholden to dark area for everything he achieved or didn't achieve in sports. Whatever place he was in a race rankings, the result has rarely explained by fitness level or training program quality.
It's really interesting thing going on with froome. I personnaly don't believe Israel would have signed him, had they not explored medical record previously. Obviously, Frooome was able to demonstrate elite or near-elite level only while being extremely lean. Why he failed to lose weight and restore muscle system ability 2 years after the crash to be somewhat competitive is what I don't understand.
- Contador 2007-2014, clearly on decline after that
- Quintana 2013-2018
- Nibali 2010-2016, although it was really 2010-2014
- Lance 1999 - 2005
- Indurain 1991-1995
- etc.
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Another thing that I'd somehow forgotten was how close his victories were. IMO, he was much craftier than he gets credit for and used his team and selective displays of force to cultivate an aura of invulnerability and beat his competitors. He also was extremely lucky in not having to face Contador at peak powers and uncrashed during his run of Tours.
- 2012 he lost to Wiggins by 3:12 which is actually not that close. I know everyone likes to say he gave that one to Wiggins, but 3:12 is a bigger margin that most of Froome's victories
- 2013 he won by 4:13, which is a good margin, but Contador screwed up his prep and crashed, so his biggest rival was a young unproven Quintana
- 2014 he lost to Contador in the Vuelta
- 2015 he only beat Quintana by 1:12 and IIRC Quintana lost time due to echelons
- 2016 he won by 4:05 but his nearest competitor was Bardet, I mean come on
- 2017 he only beat Uran by :54
- 2018 won the Giro due to a miracle and then got third at the Tour
Froome would have beaten Contador at every tour during his run regardless.
He won a few by fine margins but he was always very much in control and it was managing his efforts more than anything else.
I'd back him in 2020, but natural progression probably starts phasing him out by 21/22
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Anyway, think he'll be disappointed to have been dropped before the final climb today (even if he got back). Climbs up GC again but you can't feel good about being 12 mins down on something so tepid.
He won a few by fine margins but he was always very much in control and it was managing his efforts more than anything else.
I'd back him in 2020, but natural progression probably starts phasing him out by 21/22
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Anyway, think he'll be disappointed to have been dropped before the final climb today (even if he got back). Climbs up GC again but you can't feel good about being 12 mins down on something so tepid.
Also, the Giro - Tour double is a really bad idea. I hope Pogacar attempts it because that will likely result in more parity.
- Contador tried it in 2015 (1/5) and never won a GT again
- Quintana tried it in 2017 (2/12) and never won a GT again
- Dumoulin tried it in 2018 (2/2) and it basically ruined him as a GT rider
- Froome tried it in 2018 (1/3) and never won a GT again
Contador tried it in 2011 and nothing bad happened to him
First multi col stage in the TdF:
Is this better than his Tour de l'Ain form back in summer 2020? (when he was still with Ineos a year after his crash) I don't think so.
| 42 | ZEITS Andrey | Astana Qazaqstan Team | 12:02 | |||
| 43 | NIV Guy | Israel - Premier Tech | ,, | |||
| 44 | DOMBROWSKI Joe | Astana Qazaqstan Team | ,, | |||
| 45 | JORGENSON Matteo | Movistar Team | ,, | |||
| 46 | FROOME Chris | Israel - Premier Tech | , |
Is this better than his Tour de l'Ain form back in summer 2020? (when he was still with Ineos a year after his crash) I don't think so.
Big Doopie
BANNED
to be fair, he lost a bunch of time early in 2012 (2 mins?) due to a bunch crash. Otherwise he would have entered the mountains virtually even with Wiggins. At which point, we know - if allowed - he would have dropped Wiggins on every mountain.
but sometimes these things are tough to really judge as you race against what is there and everything is calibrated for that. It’s like when people say Delgado would have won in 1989 without the late start at the prologue. Well the only reason everyone let him take back 3 mins at Super Bagneres was BECAUSE he was so far back at the time.
37th in the GC now. I am sure he can and will frame this as tremendous progress
His rehab post original surgery didn't strike me as being optimal from what I remember. He had to have further surgery to remove a screw from the original surgery that was digging into his muscle in late 2019. Then he tried to the fix strength/power issue which the accident had left him with in his right leg, gaining weight in the process. That didn't seem to be very successful either. He said he only got equal strength/power in both legs fairly recently and I wouldn't be surprised if his right leg is still weaker than left. You could see his right leg quad was visibly smaller than the left leg until fairly recently.I'd take it even wider. Not only fans, everything relating Froome has a tendency of instantly accreting with weirdness and conspiracy theories. In many people's mind he is a rider who's at 100% beholden to dark area for everything he achieved or didn't achieve in sports. Whatever place he was in a race rankings, the result has rarely explained by fitness level or training program quality.
It's really interesting thing going on with froome. I personnaly don't believe Israel would have signed him, had they not explored medical record previously. Obviously, Frooome was able to demonstrate elite or near-elite level only while being extremely lean. Why he failed to lose weight and restore muscle system ability 2 years after the crash to be somewhat competitive is what I don't understand.
I mean obviously this has been debated to death, but I think he was very vulnerable 2015-2017. He used his team, which was the strongest team, to great effect, and he also rode with more aggression and opportunism than he gets credit for (attacking with Sagan on the flats, attacking on a descent, etc.) IMO because he knew his peak climbing ability was not extraordinary. That actually made me like him more.
In regard to 2020, I can't see a world in which, at 36 years old and 2 years after a Giro-Tour double attempt, he beats Roglic and Pogacar. It seems like many riders have acknowledged that Roglic and Pogacar are just a level up from the 2010-2019 era riders.
37th in the GC now. I am sure he can and will frame this as tremendous progress
I have to concede that so far it's better than what I expected of him. Although we still have to see if he has the recovery to hang on until the end.
Without echelons, Porte was only 90s behind roglic in 2020. Porte is around the same age as Froome.
He's better than maybe expected, but I'm sure 12 minutes down on the first mountain stage is far from what he hoped for deep down.
Fair point. But of the 4 factors I cited (age, time at the top, injury, and Giro-Tour double attempt), I believe Porte had only had a few seasons, far fewer than 7, where he focused on individual results, which takes a higher toll than acting as even a superdomestique, and he also hadn't attempted a Giro-Tour double.
I mean maybe this is just riders not racing against Peak Froome?
Roglic is a top quality racer, but you can look at his Vuelta wins in the same way you are critiquing Froome's tour ones. You should probably view them far more harshly given the comparative difficulty of winning Le tour vs winning La Vuelta.
As for 2020... Richie Porte was 3rd! There's little reason to think Froome would be actually out of contention.
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