Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[hfer07]

Despite of what has happened the first week, despite the early crashes and yesterday's bad day, I'm not ready to discard the Magic Kenyan just yet. Il Giro is a very unpredictable race, with many surprises, that can allow him to turn the tables & perhaps have a chance to fight for the Maglia Rosa, despite his early loses - I can foresee him & Poels summoning their powers on the last week while others are fading....

we'll see...

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't write off Froome yet. He needs to make about 2 mins on Dumoulin and 2.30 on Yates with a TT to go. Dumo isn't looking great and Yates will lose 1-1.30 in the TT. Today was the day after a crash on the exact same side he already crashed on and he's proven himself over 3 weeks multiple times along with being the only true stellar climber in this field.

Not looking good but would still give him similar chance of winning overall as Pinot personally

Agree. I wouldn't rule out him attempting an ambush style move as well on a flatter stage. And it could work. The team may not be at its best in the mountains, but it still has some very strong rouleurs. And Froome has shown before (e.g. 2016 tour) that he can be opportunistic and find different ways to make time.

Of course, if his form doesn't improve, then he'll get dropped like a stone on Zoncolan and Finestre anyway. But, he's still got a week or so to sort himself out before then. I feel the other GC riders really should have done more to absolutely put him out of contention by now.

Don't usually agree with these two, but do here. Obviously a bit of a disaster so far for Froome, but he's not out of it yet. An excellent ITT could see him recoup all of his losses on all but TD. The stage 8 crash may have cost him most of his stage loss yesterday. IF he is aiming for a third week peak then there is still hope for Sky fans.

But did I read that right? "Ambush", in association with Froome?

Though if he attacks on Finestre and takes back minutes he might even win some of us Contador fans over

I could see Astana or Michelton trying a long range attack but it never seems to be part of Sky's calculating racing style. I think Froome would instead just aim for the podium and it seems he is already thinking that way. The next mountain stage should give a better idea of whether Froome is starting to recover or he simply won't. The rest day came at a good time for him.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.

Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.

Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.

Valverde's goal at the Giro was a stage win and a podium to get his completed set of GT podiums. He didn't go the Tour as race leader, that was Quintana in 2016. So he wasn't going to the Tour to actually try to win it. Technically he wasn't supposed to be riding for GC at all at the Tour.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.

Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.

Valverde's goal at the Giro was a stage win and a podium to get his completed set of GT podiums. He didn't go the Tour as race leader, that was Quintana in 2016. So he wasn't going to the Tour to actually try to win it. Technically he wasn't supposed to be riding for GC at all at the Tour.

I know all that. I wouldn’t talk about someone being more successful when they did worst, just because they set easier goals for themselves.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.

Lol that makes no sense but whatever.

I really had a strong hunch Froome would do poorly at the Giro. Even before his pre prologue crash. I dunno.... It’s hard believing he can win a beautiful dynamic race like the Giro.

Valverde's goal at the Giro was a stage win and a podium to get his completed set of GT podiums. He didn't go the Tour as race leader, that was Quintana in 2016. So he wasn't going to the Tour to actually try to win it. Technically he wasn't supposed to be riding for GC at all at the Tour.

I know all that. I wouldn’t talk about someone being more successful when they did worst, just because they set easier goals for themselves.

Regardless of goals set he was still more successful than Quintana. Yes Contador had the most successful attempt.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Regardless of goals set he was still more successful than Quintana. Yes Contador had the most successful attempt.

Yes of course.

 

[Salvarani]

Can somebody explain to me why riders and other people keep saying that Froome will become strong all of a sudden in the third week? Like he is not at his best right now but he will become good in the third week etc. Why?

 

[The Barb]

Can somebody explain to me why riders and other people keep saying that Froome will become strong all of a sudden in the third week? Like he is not at his best right now but he will become good in the third week etc. Why?

I agree, there's no reason to think it will happen, especially when he often gets (marginally) weaker in the third week of a Grand Tour.

But with Froome it is reasonable to be afraid of the unexpected and unprecedented. If he were to come out and win on Zoncolan by 10 minutes that would still be less remarkable than his transformation pre and post 2011 Vuelta.

 

[cellardoor]

Can somebody explain to me why riders and other people keep saying that Froome will become strong all of a sudden in the third week? Like he is not at his best right now but he will become good in the third week etc. Why?

For one thing he's had two crashes, which he might be recovering from - particularly the first one, which seemed fairly serious. Secondly, if he's making a serious attempt at the double then it would make sense that he's had a slower build-up in the early season races and needs to find his form. Vuelta '14 could be an example of the sort of resurgence that could be possible.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

This may be accurate. Contador's Giro-Tour double (1st, 5th) may very well be the best results we see for a long time in the Giro/Tour double attempts. Quintana's attempt last year was a total disaster. Valverde's may be the most successful with his 3rd/6th only because of what his actual goals in the races were. As of now the jury is out on what Froome's success/failure is. Truthfully I expected something closer to Contador's results than Quintana's from Froome.

In the modern era I don't think it's possible. Even Froome's Tour/Vuelta double was surprising. The Giro/Vuelta is the easiest because of the rest time in between but even so even that one is rare. It's so much easier planning for one GT during the season and even then everything has to go right.

 

[Tim Booth]

Re: Re:

we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

[quote=" we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.[/quote]
Such a dumb answer.

Just say you still use it cause you need it. That's the only excuse for using it in the first place and now you're not willing to say that you need it?

 

[wouterkaas]

Re: Re:

[quote=" we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.

Such a dumb answer.

Just say you still use it cause you need it. That's the only excuse for using it in the first place and now you're not willing to say that you need it?[/quote]
I don't know if this was the smartest answer to give, but I guess that whatever he says will lead to speculation at this moment...

 

[perico]

Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

Also explains Contador in 2015, who had to go deep at the Giro and it cost him at the TdF.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

we still haven't found out how's his asthma, maybe a problem too?

from yesterdays press conference - Froome: That is not anybody’s business. That is my personal health information.

Someone's getting touchy. Pressure mounting. Let the crumble begin.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.

That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.

What is interesting to me is that it was posted that now that Froome is struggling, that he never intended to actually win the Giro. That he didn't prepare in a fashion that would have him in the form to be successful. That the appearance fee was too tempting to pass up, this very same appearance fee that many Froome supporters claimed is a figment of the imaginations of those that aren't fans of Froome. All of this is rather convenient to explain away what appears at this juncture of the Giro to be a failed effort.

You have conflicting statements from the Sky ds and Froome in regards to the severity of his crash injuries and you even have Froome contradicting himself in one sitting.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.

That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.

It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.

That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.

It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.

Why would they when some of them couldn't even beat Froome when he has a Tour in his legs? Froome is the only one of the current peloton that can do it. I think many are bailing on the possibility that it can be done because of his performance up to now at the Giro, but had he not crashed twice (crashes that I attribute to his inability to handle the pressure he is under from the AAF case), he of course would be in a much better position to for a Giro win. I just think that he chose the worst possible time in his career to pursue the double. Back-to-back grand tours at the end of 2017, followed up by Giro/Tour attempt, combined with the drama and pressure of his case PLUS the fact that he is no longer in his prime. I believe had he not had this case pending against him that he would have had a successful run at the double, especially with Dumoulin having chosen to defend his Giro win.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Why would they when some of them couldn't even beat Froome when he has a Tour in his legs? Froome is the only one of the current peloton that can do it. I think many are bailing on the possibility that it can be done because of his performance up to now at the Giro, but had he not crashed twice (crashes that I attribute to his inability to handle the pressure he is under from the AAF case), he of course would be in a much better position to for a Giro win. I just think that he chose the worst possible time in his career to pursue the double. Back-to-back grand tours at the end of 2017, followed up by Giro/Tour attempt, combined with the drama and pressure of his case PLUS the fact that he is no longer in his prime. I believe had he not had this case pending against him that he would have had a successful run at the double, especially with Dumoulin having chosen to defend his Giro win.

Good post. I don't think he is out of this yet, Yates could crack in 3rd week and TD aint looking that good. If he can do a decent Zoncolan he might come right back into it.

 

[SafeBet]

Froome is a champion, he won't quit and leave his mark on the Giro. I liked that he made his team work to bury Chaves, winning mentality.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He just proved that Giro-Tour double great perfomance is almost impossible. The same was with Quintana last year, but he was much more better at Giro and with no shape at TdF. For Chris Tour is much more important so we have Quintana-Tour2017 version now performed by CF-Giro2018.

How is it impossible if seven riders have already done it?

Because circumstances change.

That doesn't make it almost impossible. Of course circumstances change but the same was probably being said prior to each of the other successful attempts. The triple is virtually impossible. Giro/Tour IMO is not.

It hasn't been done for many years for a reason. The racing style has changed, race radios means less surprises. I don't see it being done by anyone currently racing. Most of the GC riders don't even attempt it.

Why would they when some of them couldn't even beat Froome when he has a Tour in his legs? Froome is the only one of the current peloton that can do it. I think many are bailing on the possibility that it can be done because of his performance up to now at the Giro, but had he not crashed twice (crashes that I attribute to his inability to handle the pressure he is under from the AAF case), he of course would be in a much better position to for a Giro win. I just think that he chose the worst possible time in his career to pursue the double. Back-to-back grand tours at the end of 2017, followed up by Giro/Tour attempt, combined with the drama and pressure of his case PLUS the fact that he is no longer in his prime. I believe had he not had this case pending against him that he would have had a successful run at the double, especially with Dumoulin having chosen to defend his Giro win.[/quote]

Contador after his attempt said it was impossible for him to do, but still thought that it was possible. He just didn't know the right formula basically.

However, I'd say the triple (in one racing season) is impossible.