Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[tonymikejoe]

Today, Chris Froome conceded in a tweet he has not been competing at all at this Vuelta.
"Rough first week," he wrote. "Covid is no joke."
If he is weakened by long-term Covid then what on earth is he doing pedalling 3,000 km around Spain?
Does he expect to improve during the race? Is riding hard with long-term Covid the new secret to conditioning at the highest level?
Surely he should have withdrawn from the race if he was physically restricted by the virus and given a teammate an opportunity.

 

[Pinot's goat]

I will not be surprised if Chris Froome steps off the bike this weekend and maybe calls it a day, not just for this Vuelta, but his career.

"This week had told me finally that despite everything I gave to return to my former level it was just not possible. There was nothing more I could have done and I leave the top-level of the sport with my head held high.
"It has been a difficult moment to face up to, but when it came to it I knew the time was right and it is only fair to the team and my teammates to concede I could no longer contribute to the level I expect to."

Do you actually watch cycling, he was literally making huge improvements just over a month and it has been explained many times that he was ill and this impacted his form just like happens to hundreds of riders every year which you would understand if you actually watched cycling.

 

[red_flanders]

I will not be surprised if Chris Froome steps off the bike this weekend and maybe calls it a day, not just for this Vuelta, but his career.

"This week had told me finally that despite everything I gave to return to my former level it was just not possible. There was nothing more I could have done and I leave the top-level of the sport with my head held high.
"It has been a difficult moment to face up to, but when it came to it I knew the time was right and it is only fair to the team and my teammates to concede I could no longer contribute to the level I expect to."

Sounds like honesty and candor.

Difficult to imagine.

 

[bigcog]

Today, Chris Froome conceded in a tweet he has not been competing at all at this Vuelta.
"Rough first week," he wrote. "Covid is no joke."
If he is weakened by long-term Covid then what on earth is he doing pedalling 3,000 km around Spain?
Does he expect to improve during the race? Is riding hard with long-term Covid the new secret to conditioning at the highest level?
Surely he should have withdrawn from the race if he was physically restricted by the virus and given a teammate an opportunity.

Is this a real quote or another you've made up for some bizarre reason ?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Retirement has to be at the back of his mind at least, all things considered. If he wanted to do an additional season he would be taking a sizeable pay cut even though his name on its own adds some value to whatever team he signed for.

He has a contract for next season. A pay cut is not on the table.

 

[tonymikejoe]

This may be a useful indicator of where Chris Froome's power is today, compared to his peak form.
Although I have found in my research Time Trial's are notoriously difficult to compare due to weather conditions on the day, technicality of the course etc..I have chosen one from 2013.
In today's stage his speed was 48.5kh in the 30.9km Stage 10 Time Trial at La Vuelta.
This is compared to his speed of 53.9kh in the 33km Stage 10 Time Trial to Mont-Saint-Michel at the 2013 Tour de France.
I know the TT course are not exactly like for like, but both are pretty flat and of similar distance and at the same approximate period of the overall race.
This is a mighty difference in power and illuminates just how far off Froome is from recapturing that form he is constantly talking about.

 

[IndianCyclist]

That would correspond to a 20% power loss which should be regained in 2 years max. But he is not, therefore it is a permanent issue and with age catching up, the former glory is not happening.
The problem is that in training he says that he is "close" to his former numbers but when it comes to races, it plain for everybody to see.

 

[Ripper]

That would correspond to a 20% power loss which should be regained in 2 years max. But he is not, therefore it is a permanent issue and with age catching up, the former glory is not happening.
The problem is that in training he says that he is "close" to his former numbers but when it comes to races, it plain for everybody to see.

Your last comment really hits one of the nails directly on the head - the garbage that comes out of his mouth/Twitter, when it comes to his form, is such BS.

His drop in ability really appears to be a drop in his aerobic capacity. LT, muscle strength, endurance, body weight, and flexibility, are all fairly trainable and he has had ample time to directly impact all of those (even his own unreliable reports suggest those factors have been addressed). What we are left with is a drop in VO2 max, equipment issues, and any variables that cannot be discussed in this sub forum (which also could very well impact VO2 max).

Edit:
I should add that he had covid just last month. It could easily reduce one's capacity for events such as time trials. It does not change the overall premise that we are discussing, because his physical limitations have been present long before he caught covid. But it is part of the consideration for his performance in yesterday's time trial.

Who knows, maybe he was prescribed statins for a period and was intolerant and that had a lasting impact on his VO2 max

 

[FroomeWagon]

Does anyone know how rider contracts work if a team is relegated? I noticed today that IPT is over 1000 points out of 18th place and is going to need some big results in order to maintain its status on the world tour.

If IPT does become relegated, will they still be stuck with the rider contracts on the books ? (Will IPT even continue as a team if they are relegated?) Seeing as they won't receive invites to Grand Tours or other stage races, I can't imagine they will be forced to pay the salaries of their cyclists at the same level, but I don't know how that works.

There would be a certain degree of irony if the "Froome experiment" is one of the principal reasons IPT lost its World Tour license.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Does anyone know how rider contracts work if a team is relegated? I noticed today that IPT is over 1000 points out of 18th place and is going to need some big results in order to maintain its status on the world tour.

If IPT does become relegated, will they still be stuck with the rider contracts on the books ? (Will IPT even continue as a team if they are relegated?) Seeing as they won't receive invites to Grand Tours or other stage races, I can't imagine they will be forced to pay the salaries of their cyclists at the same level, but I don't know how that works.

There would be a certain degree of irony if the "Froome experiment" is one of the principal reasons IPT lost its World Tour license.

I think that’s pretty harsh saying the team won’t be invited to any Grand Tour or WT stage race. They’ve won a GT stage each year they were WT. That’s better than other teams.

 

[saunaking]

That would correspond to a 20% power loss which should be regained in 2 years max. But he is not, therefore it is a permanent issue and with age catching up, the former glory is not happening.
The problem is that in training he says that he is "close" to his former numbers but when it comes to races, it plain for everybody to see.

the only former numbers he is still close to are on his paycheque

 

[FroomeWagon]

I think that’s pretty harsh saying the team won’t be invited to any Grand Tour or WT stage race. They’ve won a GT stage each year they were WT. That’s better than other teams.

I mispoke, thank you for correcting me. I should have said guaranteed a spot. Of course they will invited to some stage races, but I would place a fairly hefty wager that they won't be invited to the TDF next year if they are relegated ... and that is the one that pays the bills.

 

[Pinot's goat]

I mispoke, thank you for correcting me. I should have said guaranteed a spot. Of course they will invited to some stage races, but I would place a fairly hefty wager that they won't be invited to the TDF next year if they are relegated ... and that is the one that pays the bills.

They have Fuglsang, Woods and Teuns. Which team is getting invited before them which are not one of the auto wildcards?

 

[FroomeWagon]

They have Fuglsang, Woods and Teuns. Which team is getting invited before them which are not one of the auto wildcards?

The usual suspects ... the french teams.

I know Froome fans aren't going to like this, but the bottom line is IPT has spent a majority of their budget on one rider that has failed to produce anything in his two years on the team ... and the team is about to be relegated because of it. Are they going to do the same thing next year ... or is it time to move on?

 

[Rackham]

The usual suspects ... the french teams.

I know Froome fans aren't going to like this, but the bottom line is IPT has spent a majority of their budget on one rider that has failed to produce anything in his two years on the team ... and the team is about to be relegated because of it. Are they going to do the same thing next year ... or is it time to move on?

The relegation system has destroyed any 'logic' in the Froome transfer to Israel.

The problem is in a GT all those invites really do go to the local teams & it's not like they've hired any major French riders to tip the balance in their favor (for example someone like Pinot would go a long way to giving them access to the TdF).

So without WT racing next year, it could be game over for Froome at the Tour & the Alpe stage was basically one last hurrah. It was a miraculous effort & result as well considering where he'd come from in the previous years.

I think that was his ceiling & his post-accident 'peak'.

 

[carolina]

Froome has personal investments in some of the team sponsors, so his move is not that stupid.

 

[tonymikejoe]

Christopher Clive Froome is having the last laugh on all of cycling and good luck to him.
He is clearly not "pushing grey areas" as his previous team (SKY/INEOS) publicly admitted they did with great enthusiasm.
He is milking a big, fat contract earned via victories at the very highest levels of the sport with that team that was engaged in "pushing grey areas."
He does not have to do that anymore and why should he?
Froome's legacy is cast in stone in a sport that has seen so many sacrifice physically and mentally with little financial return, so why begrudge him?
Milk every Euro of that contract to the bitter end Chris.

 

[perico]

I mispoke, thank you for correcting me. I should have said guaranteed a spot. Of course they will invited to some stage races, but I would place a fairly hefty wager that they won't be invited to the TDF next year if they are relegated ... and that is the one that pays the bills.

A team with a former 4 time TDF winner doesn't have to worry about not getting a wild card, no matter how bad he looks or his team is, as long as they are semi competent.

 

[SHAD0W93]

A team with a former 4 time TDF winner doesn't have to worry about not getting a wild card, no matter how bad he looks or his team is, as long as they are semi competent.

If it comes down to Israel or Movistar/BIke Exchange the later is getting picked. Four time winner or not.

 

[tonymikejoe]

The legendary myth of Chris Froome "building back his form" continues in the face of currently lying 125th out of 146 remaining participants in this year's Vuelta.

Even writers on this very website are spewing the phrase, as Alasdair Fotheringham has in his most recent piece.

He includes the following jaw-dropping and clearly fictitious words in the article: "While Chris Froome quietly but steadily continues to build his form in the Vuelta a España........

No he isn't! He's barely hanging on! Are you even watching the race Alasdair?

Not to be outdone Froome himself piles in: “I’m gradually feeling a bit better. Obviously the first week was brutal for everyone I think, but coming off the back of struggling with COVID, that first week was really difficult for me. Now. though, I feel like I’m getting back into myself a little bit more now.

“Let’s see once we get properly into the last week of the race how the legs are feeling, and if I’ll be able to go for a mountain stage in a breakaway.”

When pressed on if he had selected any particular last-week stages for this breakaway Froome replied: "Not at the moment. Having been so affected going into the race, I’m just looking for good feelings. Once those good feelings are back, I’ll be able to look for a target.”

Okay, fellow-readers let's hold Chris Froome to that promise. Let's demand a genuine attempt to win a stage or we are not listening to this empty hype anymore.

 

[Extinction]

The legendary myth of Chris Froome "building back his form" continues in the face of currently lying 125th out of 146 remaining participants in this year's Vuelta.

Even writers on this very website are spewing the phrase, as Alasdair Fotheringham has in his most recent piece.

He includes the following jaw-dropping and clearly fictitious words in the article: "While Chris Froome quietly but steadily continues to build his form in the Vuelta a España........

No he isn't! He's barely hanging on! Are you even watching the race Alasdair?

Not to be outdone Froome himself piles in: “I’m gradually feeling a bit better. Obviously the first week was brutal for everyone I think, but coming off the back of struggling with COVID, that first week was really difficult for me. Now. though, I feel like I’m getting back into myself a little bit more now.

“Let’s see once we get properly into the last week of the race how the legs are feeling, and if I’ll be able to go for a mountain stage in a breakaway.”

When pressed on if he had selected any particular last-week stages for this breakaway Froome replied: "Not at the moment. Having been so affected going into the race, I’m just looking for good feelings. Once those good feelings are back, I’ll be able to look for a target.”

Okay, fellow-readers let's hold Chris Froome to that promise. Let's demand a genuine attempt to win a stage or we are not listening to this empty hype anymore.

Ah, but first he needs good feelings. No good feelings, no party!

 

[Unchained]

There are some real reaching responses here.. Bob Roll and Christian Van develd doing the commentary for US Vuelta TV coverage go on and on and on about the level of talent, the individual speed and power numbers, the overall increase in speed and are constantly making references to the levels riders are achieving at ever younger ages, and w fewer years overall on the bike..
Froome can regain his previous form and that will not put him on the podium. His salary, personal, professional expectations have to have him statistically feeling crushed.. The fan pressure for him to full Phoenix and rise from the ashes looks to be folklore instead of reality.. Froome,like Sagan is still a fan draw and gets positive attention to the team for if no other reason than to hopefully speculate on Froome getting out of the saddle and creating a gap to victory or minimal, be in the hunt for a podium or win..
It's sad to say, but he looks to be more of a showpiece rather than a racehorse.. With most of his past race results this year.. His was to go after the polka dot jersey and nothing else.. and maybe for defined objective of a few days before he blows up or abandons completely.. In my eyes it's a shame to have him as pack fill or constantly in the trains caboose w commentators saying he looks to be in trouble.. I would rather see him race4-6 good days and drop out.. Don't see the point of race days for the sake of rehab.. Go firecracker instead of slow burn..

 

[Extinction]

There are some real reaching responses here.. Bob Roll and Christian Van develd doing the commentary for US Vuelta TV coverage go on and on and on about the level of talent, the individual speed and power numbers, the overall increase in speed and are constantly making references to the levels riders are achieving at ever younger ages, and w fewer years overall on the bike..
Froome can regain his previous form and that will not put him on the podium. His salary, personal, professional expectations have to have him statistically feeling crushed.. The fan pressure for him to full Phoenix and rise from the ashes looks to be folklore instead of reality.. Froome,like Sagan is still a fan draw and gets positive attention to the team for if no other reason than to hopefully speculate on Froome getting out of the saddle and creating a gap to victory or minimal, be in the hunt for a podium or win..
It's sad to say, but he looks to be more of a showpiece rather than a racehorse.. With most of his past race results this year.. His was to go after the polka dot jersey and nothing else.. and maybe for defined objective of a few days before he blows up or abandons completely.. In my eyes it's a shame to have him as pack fill or constantly in the trains caboose w commentators saying he looks to be in trouble.. I would rather see him race4-6 good days and drop out.. Don't see the point of race days for the sake of rehab.. Go firecracker instead of slow burn..

He began his career as packfill and ends his career as packfill, in between was the magical mystery train.

 

[red_flanders]

Okay, fellow-readers let's hold Chris Froome to that promise. Let's demand a genuine attempt to win a stage or we are not listening to this empty hype anymore.

I haven’t been listening to it since September of 2011. Was absurd then, it’s absurd now.

 

[Savant12]

Dawg to try and get in the break. Saving himself for the Queen stage or just got nothing this Vuelta?