Chuck Coyle

Jun 18, 2009
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I figure this is really deserving of it's own thread: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/11/news/chuck-coyle-blames-doping-suspension-on-former-teammates_150931

I'll be honest, I don't really have much of an opinion on it either way. I really don't know the guy at all, outside of seeing him at the occasional race. He's always seemed pretty average, no offense. Nothing really ever screamed "I'm charging", that's for sure.

The thing is though, his story is actually pretty plausible, since I know tons of bike racers without bank accounts, credit cards or laptops. And let's face it, if you're going to buy EPO online, using someone's laptop and CC is a pretty smart way to do it.

The flip side of that argument is "didn't you get an e-mail confirmation of your order, or look at your CC statement and notice something a little henky??". Then again, I don't always study my CC statement.

I guess only Chuck and his ex-teammates really know the truth.
 
131313 said:
I figure this is really deserving of it's own thread: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/11/news/chuck-coyle-blames-doping-suspension-on-former-teammates_150931

I'll be honest, I don't really have much of an opinion on it either way. I really don't know the guy at all, outside of seeing him at the occasional race. He's always seemed pretty average, no offense. Nothing really ever screamed "I'm charging", that's for sure.

The thing is though, his story is actually pretty plausible, since I know tons of bike racers without bank accounts, credit cards or laptops. And let's face it, if you're going to buy EPO online, using someone's laptop and CC is a pretty smart way to do it.

The flip side of that argument is "didn't you get an e-mail confirmation of your order, or look at your CC statement and notice something a little henky??". Then again, I don't always study my CC statement.

I guess only Chuck and his ex-teammates really know the truth.
I think this statement saying there was an email correspondence makes his story seem dubious. Wouldn't Chuck open his email and see a reply from Eposino (sp) and ask himself WTF? Doesn't correspondence imply an exchange?

"Coyle said he was first presented with USADA’s evidence, which included email correspondence related to the purchase of EPO and insulin, earlier this week."

Lots of really nice guys dope and it seems Chuck was liked and respected. TH is a really nice guy and I'm told John Chodroff is a nice guy too, but sadly they made bad judgements.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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JRTinMA said:
I think this statement saying there was an email correspondence makes his story seem dubious. Wouldn't Chuck open his email and see a reply from Eposino (sp) and ask himself WTF? Doesn't correspondence imply an exchange?
Yeah, that's the part I have a difficult time reconciling, as well. I mean, have you ordered anything online and not gotten an e-mail confirmation? I guess the guy using his laptop could have just deleted the e-mail, though.


JRTinMA said:
Lots of really nice guys dope and it seems Chuck was liked and respected. TH is a really nice guy and I'm told John Chodroff is a nice guy too, but sadly they made bad judgements.
I totally agree. Nice guys do bad things, and I know guys who are total d-bags who are clean. Someone can be a good guy and make a few poor choices. So those guys saying "Chuck's such an awesome guy, he'd never do this" are completely kidding themselves. Maybe he didn't, but I don't think "being a nice guy" really factors much into it.
 
May 14, 2010
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131313 said:
Yeah, that's the part I have a difficult time reconciling, as well. I mean, have you ordered anything online and not gotten an e-mail confirmation? I guess the guy using his laptop could have just deleted the e-mail, though.




I totally agree. Nice guys do bad things, and I know guys who are total d-bags who are clean. Someone can be a good guy and make a few poor choices. So those guys saying "Chuck's such an awesome guy, he'd never do this" are completely kidding themselves. Maybe he didn't, but I don't think "being a nice guy" really factors much into it.

Maybe it does, at least in this case. It looks like someone who was respected and looked up to allowed his teammates to use his laptop and credit card to buy drugs. The idea that he wouldn't know about it, though, is highly implausible; given that you'd get confirming emails and a credit card statement, as someone else said, and given the change you'd presumably see in the efforts and behavior of your teammates.

Gives a whole new meaning to being a team player. :rolleyes:
 
Mar 17, 2010
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Wow, I can not imagine that Chuck Coyle thinks we are idiot's to believe his "I am a nice guy and you can borrow my laptop, credit cards, etc..." theory. I may be fool, but I am not stupid.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Chuck's excuse on Velonews is so ridiculous, nobody in their right mind would believe the BS he's spewing.

Someone used your computer, hacked into your e-mail and used your credit card to buy illegal drugs. Would you not notice several hundreds of dollars in charges on your credit card from a strange website (epseically if you only made $500 a month)? Or when you logged into your e-mail would you not notice e-mails from drug companies confirming you order for drugs?

Where were the drugs shipped? That is a pretty easy one to verify either with the credit card company or the purchase order record. Find where they were shipped and you solved your crime. Pretty simple.

And are there seriously people out there with no bank accounts and no credit cards? Much less several in a small group of people?

I love the 'nice guy' excuses. Tyler was a 'nice guy', wasn't he? I am sure his twin would have been as well if he had made it past the zygote stage.
 
May 14, 2010
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jmax22 said:
Chuck's excuse on Velonews is so ridiculous, nobody in their right mind would believe the BS he's spewing.

Someone used your computer, hacked into your e-mail and used your credit card to buy illegal drugs. Would you not notice several hundreds of dollars in charges on your credit card from a strange website (epseically if you only made $500 a month)? Or when you logged into your e-mail would you not notice e-mails from drug companies confirming you order for drugs?

Where were the drugs shipped? That is a pretty easy one to verify either with the credit card company or the purchase order record. Find where they were shipped and you solved your crime. Pretty simple.

And are there seriously people out there with no bank accounts and no credit cards? Much less several in a small group of people?

I love the 'nice guy' excuses. Tyler was a 'nice guy', wasn't he? I am sure his twin would have been as well if he had made it past the zygote stage.
LoLz! You're killin me. :D

Somebody should start a team in Tyler's name and call it that -
Team Zygote.
 
Sep 14, 2010
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Even if his far fetched story is true, he must have knowingly participated in the supply chain.
 
May 9, 2009
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I should try that excuse with my wife the next time I buy a bike: "I didn't buy that Colnago! Somebody must have borrowed my laptop, credit card, and email address and ordered it."

No, she wouldn't fall for it, and neither should we.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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And velonews has no problem laughing at the masters rider from Michigan being caught but comes out to defend the Boulder ex-pro. Right, no bias here folks.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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this_is_edie said:
And velonews has no problem laughing at the masters rider from Michigan being caught but comes out to defend the Boulder ex-pro. Right, no bias here folks.
You're really being ridiculous. Please keep in mind that I'm not part of the Boulder Mafia, I think VN blows, and I really don't know Chuck Coyle, but your comment above is just plain stupid.

VN isn't "coming to his defense", they're simply reporting the story, including his response. It's seems relevant to me, whether or not you believe him. They weren't "laughing at the master's rider", either, they simply reported the story.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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131313 said:
You're really being ridiculous. Please keep in mind that I'm not part of the Boulder Mafia, I think VN blows, and I really don't know Chuck Coyle, but your comment above is just plain stupid.

VN isn't "coming to his defense", they're simply reporting the story, including his response. It's seems relevant to me, whether or not you believe him. They weren't "laughing at the master's rider", either, they simply reported the story.

What would you call the final sentence in the Neal Schubel article:

"Under UCI and USADA rules, Schubel is also required to return any prizes earned over that four-year period, but a review of his results posted at USA Cycling’s website suggests that he needn’t worry about that aspect of the Doping Code."

I call that laughing at the masters rider don't you. And then they took the time to add other people's tweets to the Coyle article but never put in Schubel's defense from his own facebook page, which everyone can read.

Coyle "accepted a two-year period of ineligibility for an anti-doping rule violation based on his purchase, possession and use of synthetic erythropoietin (EPO) and insulin growth factor (IGF-1)." (according to USADA release) - yet velonews reports only purchase. Then they lists 3 Boulder-residents,Tyler Hamilton, Scott Moninger and Tom Zirbel, for "allegedly doping".

And I would call the 'Who is Chuck Coyle' article pro-Coyle.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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If you've ever been on a low-budget team like Coyle was, the scenario isnt' that implausible.

You've got team mates from various parts of the world who are second-string to start with, and show up for their paltry salary with virtually nothing. They're foreign, may not be able to legally get a bank account in your country, and may not be able to afford some of the electronic niceties we feel are 'normal'.

I'm not making a call on anyone, I'm just a little confused how so many posters found this totally impossible.
 
Apr 10, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
If you've ever been on a low-budget team like Coyle was, the scenario isnt' that implausible.

You've got team mates from various parts of the world who are second-string to start with, and show up for their paltry salary with virtually nothing. They're foreign, may not be able to legally get a bank account in your country, and may not be able to afford some of the electronic niceties we feel are 'normal'.

I'm not making a call on anyone, I'm just a little confused how so many posters found this totally impossible.
But weren't you just taking credit for skewering Master's racers in another post? Again, Master's Racers who dope are pathetic. What's even more pathetic you ask? A former pro who continues to dope just so he can beat Master's racers...........

I will give credit though, he continued to be "pro" by offering up just as unlikely a defense as most current pro's.
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
If you've ever been on a low-budget team like Coyle was, the scenario isnt' that implausible.

You've got team mates from various parts of the world who are second-string to start with, and show up for their paltry salary with virtually nothing. They're foreign, may not be able to legally get a bank account in your country, and may not be able to afford some of the electronic niceties we feel are 'normal'.

I'm not making a call on anyone, I'm just a little confused how so many posters found this totally impossible.
It is not any one thing that is implausible. It is the combination of everything from someone else used his credit card and his e-mail address and shipped it to his address and he did not notice the credit card charge and he cannot name who did it and and and. Combine that with the long history of excuses from dopers and it quickly falls to the same believability as the Jack Daniels defense.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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I feel bad for the dude if his story is real, but it seems like the chances of that are pretty slim.

If I'm not mistaken he did mention that the guys would pay in cash to use his credit cards on the internet. If that was the case maybe what showed up on his statement would not have looked suspicious at all if it was a vague charge.

With the vast number of guys about to come out, I wonder if any will be from Salt Lake City... It would be devistating to me to have another rider I know personally be busted as a doper :(
 
May 20, 2010
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He probably saw the email exchange (no password needed if Outlook is configured on your computer) and the charges on the CC. The teammates paid him for the charges. He was just too much of a nice guy/teammate to turn them in for doping.

If you see a friend do something illegal or unethical, you might have a word with them about it, but you probably wouldn't call the authorities unless it was something very serious.

And who knows, I may have lost to a few dopers, but I may have beat a few too. I am never going to be a pro, so I'm not going to lose sleep over the "doper next door." They are just wasting their money and risking a stroke or heart attack for very little.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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slowoldman said:
But weren't you just taking credit for skewering Master's racers in another post? Again, Master's Racers who dope are pathetic. What's even more pathetic you ask? A former pro who continues to dope just so he can beat Master's racers...........

I will give credit though, he continued to be "pro" by offering up just as unlikely a defense as most current pro's.
No. I said I took a lot of heat for sh*t-talking about masters on a thread that morphed into one that was revealing increased masters' positives in the States.

No credit taken, but some irony enjoyed...
 
Apr 10, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
No. I said I took a lot of heat for sh*t-talking about masters on a thread that morphed into one that was revealing increased masters' positives in the States.

No credit taken, but some irony enjoyed...
I think we have the same stance on Master's doping. I just thought you may be going soft on this guy because of his ridiculous excuse. We're good.:)
 
Jul 6, 2010
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slowoldman said:
I think we have the same stance on Master's doping. I just thought you may be going soft on this guy because of his ridiculous excuse. We're good.:)
Right on.

Not going soft on this American guy, just publicly stating that I have seen these exact things happen (cash-for-creditcard-use, borrowed laptops, no address, etc) on low-budget teams that have an international roster.

Not defending anyone, just saying that 'pro' racing isn't all hookers and blow coupled with six-figure bribes. Some of it's pretty blue-collar, and some of the guys are poor.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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I read the VN article a couple of times. I find charm in the subject and the writer saying that $10 or 12k a year would be exceptional or out of the norm. Everybody I have know throughout racing has had this same financial MO. From Coors Light to renting a room is about normal. All the glamour and all the insults in the world can't paint a different picture of cycling. I don't beleieve a word of Chuck's reasoning. Like the publicized Papp..the only thing people want to see is Contador getting a new Ferrari or Lance's multiple house and jetset dilema.95% of racers are working extra jobs or selling boxes of powerbars that they got from a sponsor to eat something you can cook in a stove. Guys selling jerseys online to make ends meet,Papp living in his Mom's basement,Gerlach huffing rock and puting who knows what else in his mouth to cop the next fix, Landis at the carwash..Tyler Hamilton carting a stationary bike to help would be age grade standouts....man these guys need a union..NFL guys that make it get a pension and it's still in the mail when they get out of jail..no wonder why the cycling mags don't have lots of "Where Are They Now?" feature stories...
 

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