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Alex Simmons/RST said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:2400 seconds while the climb was already underway
You're right, my bad. Still only one and a halve minute faster than Herrera. That would bring LeMonds best time out of the top 200jens_attacks said:probably the ads were cut ...the time is definitely not 39;45 or lower
The ones that died say hello to you.So basically the book says Epo came to cycling in early 90es and speeds got alot higher. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what great news. never heared of that before.
Galic Ho said:Ask Vayer. He'll tell you the low down and give you a no frills answer.
You won't like what he says BTW.
webvan said:Not really, he has several "suspect" climbs and Hinault and Fignon get flagged for a few more watts...take the short La Ruchère ITT in 1984 :
Lemond : clean with 407/5.99/425 - 28'09"
Hinault : suspicious with 409/6.29/442 - 27'25"
Fignon : Miraculous with 429/6.5/454 - 26'51"
Dunno, I'm not finding this very convincing...yeah you've got to draw the line somewhere but in pre-EPO days it looks like they're splitting hair. Having said that it's nice to have tables with all these memorable climbs and associated comments over the years!
Fearless Greg Lemond said:Vetoo has done a great job making an all time list for the Alpe:
149. Alejandro Valverde __ ESP | 41:45 | 2008
150. Frank Schleck _______ LUX | 41:45 | 2008
151. Andrew Hampsten _____ USA | 41:45 | 1991
152. Vladimir Efimkin ____ RUS | 41:47 | 2008
153. Cadel Evans _________ AUS | 41:47 | 2008
154. Denis Menchov _______ RUS | 41:47 | 2008
155. Christian Vandevelde_ USA | 41:47 | 2008
156. Bernhard Kohl _______ AUT | 41:47 | 2008
157. Anthony Charteau ____ FRA | 41:48 | 2004
158. Laudelino Cubino ____ ESP | 41:48 | 1995
159. Pierrick Fedrigo ____ FRA | 41:49 | 2004
160. Luis Herrera ________ COL | 41:50 | 1987
161. Yuriy Krivtsov ______ UKR | 41:53 | 2004
162. Stefano Garzelli ____ ITA | 41:56 | 2006
163. Laurent Fignon ______ FRA | 41:56 | 1987
164. Yaroslav Popovych ___ UKR | 41:57 | 2006
165. Michael Boogerd _____ NED | 41:57 | 2006
166. Richard Virenque ____ FRA | 41:57 | 2004
167. Marius Sabaliauskas _ LTU | 41:57 | 2004
168. Marzio Bruseghin ____ ITA | 41:58 | 2004
169. Kim Kirchen _________ LUX | 41:59 | 2004
170. Carlos Contreras ____ COL | 41:59 | 1999
____ 42:00 - 42:14 | 20
171. Ruben Lobato ________ ESP | 42:00 | 2006
172. Pierre Rolland ______ FRA | 42:03 | 2011
173. Sylvain Chavanel ____ FRA | 42:04 | 2006
174. Kevin Livingston ____ USA | 42:04 | 1997
175. Oscar Sevilla _______ ESP | 42:05 | 2004
176. Francisco Mancebo ___ ESP | 42:06 | 2001
177. Igor G. de Galdeano _ ESP | 42:06 | 2001
178. Roberto Laiseka _____ ESP | 42:06 | 2001
179. Peter Velits ________ SVK | 42:07 | 2011
180. Cadel Evans _________ AUS | 42:07 | 2011
181. Thoams de Gendt _____ BEL | 42:07 | 2011
182. Damiano Cunego ______ ITA | 42:07 | 2011
183. Frank Schleck _______ LUX | 42:07 | 2011
184. Andy Schleck ________ LUX | 42:07 | 2011
185. Abelardo Rondon _____ COL | 42:08 | 1991
186. Santiago Botero _____ COL | 42:11 | 2004
187. Leonardo Piepoli ____ ITA | 42:12 | 2001
188. Ronan Pensec ________ FRA | 42:12 | 1991
189. Eddy Mazzoleni ______ ITA | 42:14 | 2006
190. Thierry Bourguignon _ FRA | 42:14 | 1997
____ 42:15 -
191. Jerome Pineau _______ FRA | 42:15 | 2004
192. Pedro Delgado _______ ESP | 42:15 | 1987
193. Pedro Delgado _______ ESP | 42:15 | 1989
194. Laurent Fignon ______ FRA | 42:15 | 1989
195. Bobby Julich ________ USA | 42:16 | 2004
196. Igor G. de Galdeano _ ESP | 42:16 | 2004
197. Pascal Richard ______ SUI | 42:16 | 1991
198. Reynel Montoya ______ COL | 42:16 | 1991
199. Iker Flores _________ ESP | 42:17 | 2004
200. Beat Breu ___________ SUI | 42:17 | 1982
Go see for yourself at:
http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/...km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=2041608#post2041608
That is frigging disgusting. Herrera not even making the top 150.
160. Luis Herrera ________ COL | 41:50 | 1987
jens_attacks said:probably the ads were cut ...the time is definitely not 39;45 or lower
jens_attacks said:and again 1991 alpe time is wrong, seems like none of those times are verified, just taken from wiki or portoleau. and it scrrews all of your (rather beautiful) tables and graphics
Bavarianrider said:So basically the book says Epo came to cycling in early 90es and speeds got alot higher. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what great news. never heared of that before.
Bavarianrider said:So basically the book says Epo came to cycling in early 90es and speeds got alot higher. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what great news. never heared of that before.
red_flanders said:I think the relevant part is the more recent past, after everyone stopped doping in 2006. Somehow they kept the speeds up!
ozerulz said:How can you order this here in the states?
Race Radio said:Here
http://www.joomag.com/magazine/alternativ-editions-not-normal/0269766001370594539
I found it pretty interesting.
Or he just got worse (whilst still doping) to level that can be achieved clean.Bavarianrider said:So it seems Vino was clean (in terms of blood doping) in the years 2000 and 2001. A further indication that Telekom as a whole was not on the juice in those 2 years.
Also it seems as Basso totally stopped doping after the second Giro win.
Merckx index said:I don't think it's out-and-out rubbish. Of course you have to take estimates like these with a grain of salt, but it's been well documented that times in the 90s were much faster than those in 80s--and also faster than those in recent years--over the same climbs. Comparing a single performance at different times is problematic, but when you have many comparsions, differences in weather conditions tend to average out. So the fact that no one broke 40 mins, or apparently even 42 mins, for Alpe in the 1980s, whereas several riders did it in the 90s or early in this century is highly significant.
Fatclimber said:Thanks Alex, very interesting. The '04 TT times were brought back into the fold with the top 5 averages as opposed to armstrong's individual time flying high above the rest. Mig looks like a clown. What was the sentiment of the fans during the Mig/Riis/Ullrich/Pantani winning years? Those look like very funny times to be living in!
Edit: I did not mean armstrong's time being better than the rest, meant to refer to the "frequency of top 200 times by year" chart that Alex had posted up thread.
red_flanders said:I think the relevant part is the more recent past, after everyone stopped doping in 2006. Somehow they kept the speeds up!
martinvickers said:2006? As in Year Landis? I always thought it was supposed to be AFTER 2006, rather than IN 2006 that a change was supposed to have started?
I know it's splitting hairs, of course...