Clean win but teammates doping

[SirLes]

If you were a pro cyclist and won a race clean but you received support from teammates that you knew had been doping would you consider it a "clean" win.

I was pondering this senario and decided that I'd feel cheated and would only be able to fully enjoy my victory if I knew all my teammates were clean as well.

Thoughts please.

 

[D-Queued]

If you were a pro cyclist and won a race clean but you received support from teammates that you knew had been doping would you consider it a "clean" win.

I was pondering this senario and decided that I'd feel cheated and would only be able to fully enjoy my victory if I knew all my teammates were clean as well.

Thoughts please.

This may be more common that suggested.

There was an excellent report at one point on typical team-doping strategies that lumped the riders into three groups: the GC (or jersey) contenders, the super-domestiques, and the pack-fill.

According to this insight, the Super-Domestiques may have a better plan with better juice than the GC kingpins. Obviously it is in best interest of the 'Dons' that their Lieutenants be able to provide dependable support.

In the Tour there are always a few gift stages - birthdays, hometown boys, etc. - available to those that can manage a 200 km solo breakaway while posing no GC threat. More likely than not, these riders are clean or cleaner than their teammates.

They don't seem to be troubled by that.

Dave.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Probably a moot point. How does the totally clean guy keep up with his doped teammates so that they can help him win?

 

[SirLes]

Probably a moot point. How does the totally clean guy keep up with his doped teammates so that they can help him win?

I suppose one way would be if you were a sprinter who spent almost the entire race sheltered and protected by team mates whilst other team mates spent the day chasing breaks, thinning out the field etc and delivering you to a couple of hundred metres from the finish.

 

[Zarvinov]

Probably a moot point. How does the totally clean guy keep up with his doped teammates so that they can help him win?

Plus. If you add in the amount of money his team mates would have paid to purchase the PED's. Then the hypothetical scenario of doped team mates helping a clean member of the team to win is highly unlikely.

 

[D-Queued]

Probably a moot point. How does the totally clean guy keep up with his doped teammates so that they can help him win?

...as noted above, the peloton lets him go on an early break 'cuz he ain't no threat.

Dave.

 

[BigBoat]

If you were a pro cyclist and won a race clean but you received support from teammates that you knew had been doping would you consider it a "clean" win.

I was pondering this senario and decided that I'd feel cheated and would only be able to fully enjoy my victory if I knew all my teammates were clean as well.

Thoughts please.

It wont happen in very often in big pro racing but you might see this in amateurs or collegiate.... or juniors maybe even.

I think Greg Lemond probably raced and beat a lot of guys using epo in 91 during that year's Tour though. Its might happen every once in a blue-moon that a big pro race is one without drugs in today's day & age and teammates are doped. I'm thinking of the Obree type perhaps.... Or maybe Matt Decanio.

 

[jamiephillips]

Isn't this what happened with a certain former U.S. team/ cyclist?

 

[patterson_hood]

Isn't this what happened with a certain former U.S. team/ cyclist?

I think it's more likely they were all doped, although this is an explanation that has been put forward.

 

[noddy69]

...as noted above, the peloton lets him go on an early break 'cuz he ain't no threat.

Dave.

Thats only for someone who isnt a team leader, or who is so far behind he is no threat. I think what the poster was asking, and rightly was how would the team GC man keep up with the dopers to win. He wouldnt and its not a realistic scenario IMO.

 

[Kiara is a rational girl]

Thats only for someone who isnt a team leader, or who is so far behind he is no threat. I think what the poster was asking, and rightly was how would the team GC man keep up with the dopers to win. He wouldnt and its not a realistic scenario IMO.

According to D-Queued - I, specially blessed as I am, can actually read - the report never suggested that those GC men might be clean, only that their domestiques might be doping more effectively. The former's greater ability, however slight, and slight it would be, can confidently be attributed to some innate genetic superiority. I mean, what the fook, do you think we're popped out of the womb so closely matched that all is sealed and fixed in favor of whoever gets the most external assistance, no matter how minor?

 

[Machu Picchu]

According to D-Queued - I, specially blessed as I am, can actually read - the report never suggested that those GC men might be clean, only that their domestiques might be doping more effectively. The former's greater ability, however slight, and slight it would be, can confidently be attributed to some innate genetic superiority. I mean, what the fook, do you think we're popped out of the womb so closely matched that all is sealed and fixed in favor of whoever gets the most external assistance, no matter how minor?

No, the OP is talking about a clean rider, though you do state the obvious that a doped rider does not guarantee success over one which is clean but more talented, and therefore the clean riders victory should not be tainted.

 

[Kiara is a rational girl]

No, the OP is talking about a clean rider, though you do state the obvious that a doped rider does not guarantee success over one which is clean but more talented, and therefore the clean riders victory should not be tainted.

Nah, I ****ed up. I thought the guy was responding to the post above his, rather than the OP.

 

[Adamastor]

I think Greg Lemond probably raced and beat a lot of guys using epo in 91 during that year's Tour though. Its might happen every once in a blue-moon that a big pro race is one without drugs in today's day & age and teammates are doped. I'm thinking of the Obree type perhaps.... Or maybe Matt Decanio.

Can you please explain how you come to think Lemond was on EPO in 91's Tour de France???

 

[Adamastor]

Funny how I always manage to shut up everyone. Still waiting for an answer to my simple question.

 

[Machu Picchu]

Funny how I always manage to shut up everyone. Still waiting for an answer to my simple question.

People probably assumed that you would have re-read it by now and understood your mistake

 

[jamiephillips]

I think he mean't that the other guys were the ones using epo, not Greg. That's how I read it anyway.

 

[SirLes]

Any takers on the original question?
Purely hypothetical ( as I don't want it to be a discussion about whether it is possible or specific cases) just if the rider who wins is clean but has received assistance from team mates who have taken PED, is it still a "clean" win?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Any takers on the original question?
Purely hypothetical ( as I don't want it to be a discussion about whether it is possible or specific cases) just if the rider who wins is clean but has received assistance from team mates who have taken PED, is it still a "clean" win?

I went right to the top to help you out - from the NYT after Andreu admitted he had doped in 99.

Pat McQuaid, the president of the International Cycling Union, said the confession would have "no effect at all" on Armstrong's legacy. He also said teammates using drugs might not have helped Armstrong win.

"It's debatable whether the lead rider is any faster because his teammates are doping," he said. "Most of the doping is done individually, and it doesn't mean anyone else on the team would know."

Official answer is its debatable, but no

 

[Dr.Sahl]

If you were a pro cyclist and won a race clean but you received support from teammates that you knew had been doping would you consider it a "clean" win.

I was pondering this senario and decided that I'd feel cheated and would only be able to fully enjoy my victory if I knew all my teammates were clean as well.

Thoughts please.

Short answer..

NO