CN Best Team Bike 2011

[42x16ss]

And this is logical? Jesus H. Christ Poly, you're way more off your rocker than I thought. Can't remember last time I saw a race where there was only one rider switching between bikes. Must be boring as hell living in your aerodynamically correct world.

Welcome to the Tri Geek school of thought

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yes two riders can be alike.
One rider on a standard road bike.
Same rider on an aero road bike.

Aero bike wins.

If we followed your logic there would be no point in doing anything to improve the performance of your bike.

LOL @ this garbage analysis. If you don't work for the bike industry, you should.

 

[Polyarmour]

Just sayin' that comparing Cav's power to others without accounting for his size and weight is invalid. An eighteen wheeler may have more power than my Elise but I know which one I would bet on in a 300 meter sprint.

Cav's weight is not so much an issue as his aerodynamic profile. Two riders can have the same weight but vastly different drag coefficients. In the sprint it's all about the power to aerodynamic drag ratio.

 

[Polyarmour]

Obviously a few of you flat earthers have a bit of trouble dealing with metaphysical concepts like "analogies". It's no wonder you don't understand aerodynamics.

The world bicycle speed record is held by a recumbent. Why? Aerodynamics.

TT's are ridden on aero bikes. Ride one on a road bike and you'll be 3-5km/h slower.

Aero wheels are right throughout the peloton.

Yet you would have us believe that somehow aero makes no difference to a road bike frame? Hey, keep riding Merckx era bikes if you like harking back to the good ol' days but aero road bikes are here to stay.

42*16ss don't disagree with anything you say. You would have weigh up the pros and cons obviously. As time goes on though I suspect many of these aero frame concerns will disappear. 20W is too large an advantage to ignore... except by boutique hand made basement frame makers who don't have the resources to get on top of the aerodynamics issues.

 

[elapid]

@ Polyarmour - You have produced the best argument against your stand. Firstly, 20W is not an absolute. Regardless, as you mentioned, the largest air resistance is not the bike but the rider and their profile. A rider will lose any advantage of being on an aero bike when they have lost their form, are not as aerodynamic, etc. Because of the stiffness and degree of discomfort on most aero bikes, riders will become more sore and tired sooner and lose their form and hence lose the advantage of the aero bike. There is also no advantage to an aero bike in the following situations: being in a pack, cross wind, head wind (mainly because of rider profile and air resistance), and climbing (because aero bikes are heavier). As previously mentioned in this thread, handling is worse (as Cervelo has already admitted) and this also affects speed. Yes, aero bikes are here to stay but much of the science behind it is just marketing hype and they have very little real world benefit, especially in a road bike for a non-professional.

 

[LugHugger]

@ Polyarmour - You have produced the best argument against your stand. Firstly, 20W is not an absolute. Regardless, as you mentioned, the largest air resistance is not the bike but the rider and their profile. A rider will lose any advantage of being on an aero bike when they have lost their form, are not as aerodynamic, etc. Because of the stiffness and degree of discomfort on most aero bikes, riders will become more sore and tired sooner and lose their form and hence lose the advantage of the aero bike. There is also no advantage to an aero bike in the following situations: being in a pack, cross wind, head wind (mainly because of rider profile and air resistance), and climbing (because aero bikes are heavier). As previously mentioned in this thread, handling is worse (as Cervelo has already admitted) and this also affects speed. Yes, aero bikes are here to stay but much of the science behind it is just marketing hype and they have very little real world benefit, especially in a road bike for a non-professional.

100% spot on.

These 20w measured in a lab are virtual and do not translate to race conditions. How many races are held on homogenous plains in a single direction? None. Cars, buildings, trees, other riders, walls and fences and gradients are all constantly changing the angle of wind yaw. The fabled optimum yaw for 20w benefit exists for a couple of seconds and then disappears.

As Chuck D said Don't Believe The Hype.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The aero road bike concept arrived as soon as manufacturers started hitting well beyond the weight limit and advancement had essentially plateaued.

Plus, weight is easily quantifiable. Aerodynamics are not, as Polyarmour has so demonstrated, and "advances" can continue as far as marketing nonsense can drive them.

 

[BroDeal]

The aero road bike concept arrived as soon as manufacturers started hitting well beyond the weight limit and advancement had essentially plateaued.

Plus, weight is easily quantifiable. Aerodynamics are not, as Polyarmour has so demonstrated, and "advances" can continue as far as marketing nonsense can drive them.

The funny thing is that 95% of these bikes are bought by punters who don't race and average 17 mph. They are tooling around at an average power of less than 100W. Those guys are not saving anywhere near 20W. Rolling resistance at those speeds can be 20% of the total resistance.

 

[oldborn]

Polymer I trust you my brother you know that. Guys here are somehow old&bold
Just look names brochill, Foose McChicken, ChuckLugger, and most oldest but handsome hipster WD40. I mean how anyone could expect aero from those guys

 

[Polyarmour]

Polymer I trust you my brother you know that. Guys here are somehow old&bold
Just look names brochill, Foose McChicken, ChuckLugger, and most oldest but handsome hipster WD40. I mean how anyone could expect aero from those guys

I feel like I'm in a dinner suit at the annual redneck convention ;-)

 

[Polyarmour]

Did you notice Cav wanted to take his Venge to Sky? He knows what it's worth.

 

[42x16ss]

Did you notice Cav wanted to take his Venge to Sky? He knows what it's worth.

If Specialized were paying you the sponsorship dollars he was getting then you would try it too

 

[LugHugger]

I feel like I'm in a dinner suit at the annual redneck convention ;-)

Lust and greed are more gullible than innocence.

 

[veganrob]

Did you notice Cav wanted to take his Venge to Sky? He knows what it's worth.

Yes, and every time Fabian Cancellara rode a new team bike it was the fastest one he had ever ridden. Ok

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Funny how I get pegged as the anti-tech curmudgeon when it comes to this aero debate, and I probably own more aero carbon frames and wheels than anybody who's posted here. Polyarmour, you can't use TT analogies anymore, this thread is about road bikes, that's it. Slight variances in aerodynamics from frame to frame being tested in a wind tunnel does NOT translate well to a RR, you're leaving out so many variables that cannot be replicated in a lab. The only difference between a Venge and a M10 is what it says on the down tube and who's racing it. I'm not an aero denier, it does make a difference, but not enough to pick the winner of a RR because everybody these days is pretty much on the same gear with a different name, a billboard. Sorry, you're in la la land if you think equipment is winning road races.

 

[Polyarmour]

Funny how I get pegged as the anti-tech curmudgeon when it comes to this aero debate, and I probably own more aero carbon frames and wheels than anybody who's posted here.

Well that's better than being pegged as a Tri-geek
Not that I've got anything against Tri's....
I'd even enter one provided it had no more than a 50m dog paddle, a 100m walk and a 200km ride.

 

[usedtobefast]

Funny how I get pegged as the anti-tech curmudgeon when it comes to this aero debate, and I probably own more aero carbon frames and wheels than anybody who's posted here. Polyarmour, you can't use TT analogies anymore, this thread is about road bikes, that's it. Slight variances in aerodynamics from frame to frame being tested in a wind tunnel does NOT translate well to a RR, you're leaving out so many variables that cannot be replicated in a lab. The only difference between a Venge and a M10 is what it says on the down tube and who's racing it. I'm not an aero denier, it does make a difference, but not enough to pick the winner of a RR because everybody these days is pretty much on the same gear with a different name, a billboard. Sorry, you're in la la land if you think equipment is winning road races.

my bike never hurts, but jeezuz my fing legs do. some days more than others.
the bike never complains. at least so far it hasn't.

 

[Angliru]

Fugly frame. Couldn't make the Cervelo S5 look good even if you put Charlize Theron on it.

Well, I don't know. Charlize tends to improve anything in her vacinity IMO.
Any excuse to post a Charlize Theron photo is always a good one.

http://www.celebful.com/celebrity-pictures/charlize-theron-photos-458