Columbia-HTC past and future

[karlboss]

Even if some teams are corrupt, I think a salary cap is a good idea. Have more elements even can never hurt. Or does this just free up money for corruption?

 

[ingsve]

What I meant about EBH is that his season up to May was cracking. I heard soo much about him. Then all quiet. No Tour for him, no race details. Nothing.

Obviously you're the type of person who thinks the season ends with the Tour.

EBH rode the Giro as a first test at a GT and at no point was there a plan for him to ride the Tour. So after having a busy spring season of classics and Giro he had the summer off to train except for the national championships. Then he came back and had one of the best fall seasons of anyone.

 

[ingsve]

Bob Stapleton: "In my opinion I see the Tour of California as a Grand Tour. It’s the eighth largest economy, directly behind France. The race will be televised in over 100 countries and it has a broad following in Europe already."

Is this guy delusional or what?

 

[blackcat]

Bob Stapleton: "In my opinion I see the Tour of California as a Grand Tour. It’s the eighth largest economy, directly behind France. The race will be televised in over 100 countries and it has a broad following in Europe already."

Is this guy delusional or what?

well Qinghai is a GT too obviously.

 

[karlboss]

qinghai, must be seriously hard, they have days that don't go below 3000m and the tallest mountains are above 3800m. Wonder how long before the chinese get into cycling, they build all the bikes anyway.

Bob, here is your new market.

 

[scribe]

Bob Stapleton: "In my opinion I see the Tour of California as a Grand Tour. It’s the eighth largest economy, directly behind France. The race will be televised in over 100 countries and it has a broad following in Europe already."

Is this guy delusional or what?

Delusional in that California's economy is actually a selling point.

 

[ingsve]

Delusional in that California's economy is actually a selling point.

Yes and in the thought that Tour of California is anywhere close to the prestige of the three GTs.

The status of classic races lies in a large part in their history and has nothing at all really to do with economics, prize money, participation etc.

A classic race will get good participation and will offer good prizemoney etc but having good participation and prizemoney etc won't make anything a classic race.

No matter how Tour of California evolves it will never be a clasic race like the three GTs. Except perhaps in a hundred years time.

 

[samb01]

No matter how Tour of California evolves it will never be a clasic race like the three GTs. Except perhaps in a hundred years time.

Not that I disagree wrt Tour of California in particular, but is it just my imagination or has Monte Paschi Eroica taken on a fair bit more prestige than what one would expect from a three-year old race?

 

[ingsve]

Not that I disagree wrt Tour of California in particular, but is it just my imagination or has Monte Paschi Eroica taken on a fair bit more prestige than what one would expect from a three-year old race?

Well, it has gotten quite a bit of attention but I think that has to do with the unique course rather than anything else. Also the course itself has a longer history from recreational racing than the actual professional race.

I don't think anyone thinks that Eroica is or will rival the true spring classics in any meaningful way.

 

[Galic Ho]

It wasn't their call to make. According to a recent interview with Pro Cycling Stapleton claimed he would match anyone wrt money, but EBH's manager just wouldn't give him the time of day.

In general, you would have more informed opinions if you paid day-to-day attention to the sport as opposed to just tuning in for the biggest events.

Enjoy the winter in Norway. Can you actually ride a bike in winter in Norway? I am well aware of why EBH left HTC. What nationality was he again? Thats not the reason why you've taken issue with someone ignoring him is it? Have your cry over one person on the other side of the planet not paying attention to one rider. I am more than willing to ignore EBH. If he was as good as you believe him to be, he'd have been riding, like Martin in France. We'll see about the future. Good move leaving HTC, because they can't support everybody, not with Siutsou and Martin also developing.

Opinions are like @rseholes. Everyone has one. Most are exclusive to the person who holds them. If I have the opinion EBH was quiet after the Tour, from my perspective I am right as I had no knowledge saying otherwise. Check the threads on EBH pre and post TdF. Lots more posts and info before July.

As for me not paying attention to the tour of Britain. Please, I noticed the basics and it was boring. Why would an aussie give a toss about a race in Britain? Anyone I like racing? Maybe in Norway after all snow based sports you've got nothing better to watch, here in Australia, the Tour of Britain isn't on the priority list. Go and sit in a good psychology class. People dispose of useless information very quickly, hence why I saw the headlines and didn't care. I regard the tour of Britain as useless.

 

[Galic Ho]

Obviously you're the type of person who thinks the season ends with the Tour.

EBH rode the Giro as a first test at a GT and at no point was there a plan for him to ride the Tour. So after having a busy spring season of classics and Giro he had the summer off to train except for the national championships. Then he came back and had one of the best fall seasons of anyone.

Obviously you Scandinavians stick together. A Norwegian and now a Swede. Like the generalisations do you? We can do that all day in the land down under. Really guys, nothing was said at which to take offense. But your great hope of the future EBH was mentioned and like a true fanboi, offense was taken. Read my posts, plenty mentioned beside the Tour.

If you don't like it, post more about EHB. Educate others. Eneco Tour is fine but the Tour of Britain! A spectacle for the locals and a non issue for the majority of the planet and also cycling fans. Ask anyone on this side of the planet what it is or who won? They won't have a clue. Better ask them what sport it is. Useless and irrelevant to them. Had nothing to do with EBH but the race itself.

Then why do you even say anything at all? He wasn't chosen to ride the tour de france because Colombia thought it would be better for his development not to.

Yea he has definitely been invisible since May

Not confused. Another Scandinavian I presume. Why say anything at all? Because I can. Duh! Read the above.

I'll explain it for you again. Tour of Britain. Aussie, couldn't give a stuff. Threads before July versus after. Big difference. EBH may have tons of potential, but on this side of the planet he isn't a priority or someone I will deliberately go out of my way to follow. Have your cry, build a bridge and move on.

To EBHs benefit, I thought he would ride the Tour and given the start of his season, I considered it foolish not to take him. Kirchen was injured. But that's what happens at HTC. Too many good riders and some miss out on the big rides that get tons of attention and media time.

 

[maltiv]

I don't think anyone claimed that tour of britain was his best result, eneco tour was, in addition to pologne where his team didn't even want to work for him. If you're not impressed by someone beating some of the best sprinters in the world (farrar, greipel) while also being excellent at time trails and hilly stages at the age of 22, then so be it.

And no, you can't cycle in the winter in Norway. Once you go outside, you will be ambushed by vikings riding on Polar bears.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think a good question is, can/will columbia be as succesful next year as they have been the past two years?

 

[Galic Ho]

I think a good question is, can/will columbia be as succesful next year as they have been the past two years?

The HTC piece on this websites posted today had Stapleton admitting Greipel and Cav notched up 44 wins between them. More than any other team. Add EBH to that and there is 60 wins. Even without EBH, HTC will get close to 80 wins next season as well. Blackcat detailed that the team can change tactics and in all probability improve. I hate their jerseys as well. Looked neater and better in 2008. Yellow, white and black, uuurrrrrggghhh!

Maltiv, you are right, nobody claimed Eneco was EBHs best result. That was never raised till you mentioned it. Plus beating Farrar requires a solid effort, but Greipel? He rode for the same team this year, that doesn't count in sprints. GC, ITT and points comps I'll accept but not stage wins.

I don't mean to offend but I'm not sold on Siutsou, Martin and EBH. They are all going to be competing in future for more or less the same wins along with young guys like Nibali and Kreuziger. The pointy end of the field is fiercely competitive. Few live up to expectations. Everyone cannot win. I'm not prepared to annoint anyone as something they are not without consistent evidence and form. If EBH does the same as this year, next year, fine. But no sooner.

 

[blackcat]

The HTC piece on this websites posted today had Stapleton admitting Greipel and Cav notched up 44 wins between them. More than any other team. Add EBH to that and there is 60 wins. Even without EBH, HTC will get close to 80 wins next season as well. Blackcat detailed that the team can change tactics and in all probability improve. I hate their jerseys as well. Looked neater and better in 2008. Yellow, white and black, uuurrrrrggghhh!

Maltiv, you are right, nobody claimed Eneco was EBHs best result. That was never raised till you mentioned it. Plus beating Farrar requires a solid effort, but Greipel? He rode for the same team this year, that doesn't count in sprints. GC, ITT and points comps I'll accept but not stage wins.

I don't mean to offend but I'm not sold on Siutsou, Martin and EBH. They are all going to be competing in future for more or less the same wins along with young guys like Nibali and Kreuziger. The pointy end of the field is fiercely competitive. Few live up to expectations. Everyone cannot win. I'm not prepared to annoint anyone as something they are not without consistent evidence and form. If EBH does the same as this year, next year, fine. But no sooner.

line of Columbia's jerseys Gallic - Columbia's contract with Stapletont was (this is my mail, I could be wrong) his contract was non financial til 2010. He has received no money from Columbia yet. He was running the team still on the dime of T-Mobile severance.

Could be wrong.

From my mail, Stapleton then felt he deserved a bonus for 2008 from Columbia, but they had signed a contract that did not require them to fork out until 2010. Stapleton thought his crew who were on CERA and other gear, and all those wins and Cavs 20 odd wins deserved a bonus. And this guy came from the private sector!

So now Stapleton sticks the Columbia brand in some sci-fi jersey, a rip off of Cipo's and Sky HD and Rock Racing derivatives...

Now this is so far from Columbia positioning as you can get, Columbia seems to me to be a very conservative outdoors firm, and I never saw them as appropriate for cycling. In fact, if I was in their marketing department I would have put an injunction on Stapleton using their brand on that jersey design.

Stapleton may have been a great operator in telcoms, but unfortunately he puts the U in ugly American. The Hincapie situation, an ownership over the peloton thinking they deserved to have the leader's jersey. And sticking his sponsor in a jersey which is so far from their brand image that he could find.

 

[Galic Ho]

line of Columbia's jerseys Gallic - Columbia's contract with Stapletont was (this is my mail, I could be wrong) his contract was non financial til 2010. He has received no money from Columbia yet. He was running the team still on the dime of T-Mobile severance.

Could be wrong.

From my mail, Stapleton then felt he deserved a bonus for 2008 from Columbia, but they had signed a contract that did not require them to fork out until 2010. Stapleton thought his crew who were on CERA and other gear, and all those wins and Cavs 20 odd wins deserved a bonus. And this guy came from the private sector!

So now Stapleton sticks the Columbia brand in some sci-fi jersey, a rip off of Cipo's and Sky HD and Rock Racing derivatives...

Now this is so far from Columbia positioning as you can get, Columbia seems to me to be a very conservative outdoors firm, and I never saw them as appropriate for cycling. In fact, if I was in their marketing department I would have put an injunction on Stapleton using their brand on that jersey design.

Stapleton may have been a great operator in telcoms, but unfortunately he puts the U in ugly American. The Hincapie situation, an ownership over the peloton thinking they deserved to have the leader's jersey. And sticking his sponsor in a jersey which is so far from their brand image that he could find.

Interesting if the salary is true. He'll be in for a massive payment in 2010 if that is the case. Lots of team wins don't mean more pay. Team winnings not enough for the HTC boys also not forgetting the benefits winning does for press coverage.

Columbia the clothing brand and company culture are diametrically opposite of Team Columbia-HTC Road Cycling Team. The simple blue for the 2008 jersey reflects Columbia's sportswear. Simple but useful designs that stick with a singular colour palette and pattern arrangement. I thought the same as you when I saw this seasons jersey. Rip-off. Unoriginal. Was about to buy the 2008 jersey and they found they hadn't continued it. Too bad.

Heck I thought yellow was chosen for the primary reason that it is the most common leaders jersey colour in pro-cycling. Subtle placement gives the public that winning impression they associate with yellow. All the team wins further add to that image. I believe the UCI and race organisers need to have 'away jerseys' for teams whose racing jersey has a significant percentage dyed in the same colour as a leaders jersey. What are they going to do next year if Cofidis and Acqua Sapone race the Vuelta? Leaders jersey is bright red next year. The sport is about recognising riders on the road. Certain coloured jerseys make it very difficult to distinguish leader, KOM, etc. It gets worse when the wet weather gear comes out.

Stapleton. Bill or Bob, doesn't matter, both are cut from the same cloth. One pollutes the globe with team Lance the later with HTC. I won't get into the Hincapie incident other than to say George should not have let Ignatiev get that breakaway near the end. He could have been in yellow if he hadn't mucked about. At least the Vaughters/Stapleton drama gives people something to talk about.

 

[blackcat]

I thought the blue jerseys were still a mighty compromise with their brand positioning, but, that design and color palette was the best option. Then Stapleton basically spits on his sponsor.

The original contract was due to Stapleton's expedience. Gallic remember Stapleton got a massive severence for the remaining 2 and a half, or was it three and a half years on the contract. He got something like 70% of the contract.

Now if Stapleton goes out and sells the team to a new sponsor immediately, and brings in a sponsor to cover all costs, he takes that 70% as profit.

But, Telekom the parent firm also have media holdings in their conglomerate, I do not think they have Bild, but they may own it. But if they do not, they have the power to get their narrative in the press and media. Stapleton could not really screw over his former sponsor by getting a new sponsor immediately to cover all costs, otherwise Telekom would seek to hurt him, for profiting out of an unethical situation that he was a key party in the making.

So he takes time out onder the High Road sobriquet, then comes in with Columbia, albeit, no cash yet. This was also a branding decision, it looks better for him to have a brand on his jersey, a sponsor, than no sponsor. Otherwise the industry will be questioning why he has no sponsor.

So Columbia got a good deal. Market price for 2 or 3 years. Plus 1.5 years or whatever it is, free.

So they are not getting a market price over the 4.5 or 3.5 years. They got the one year, 1.5 years free, to come on board, because Telekom were covering Stapleton with the pay out.

Stapleton showed his ignorance and belligerence with his stupid jerseys and the Hincapie fiasco. You don't get a bonus when you have signed a contract. And don't expect brands who are protective about their strategic position to come in and sponsor your rotten outfit in the future after you showed utter disrespect to your sponsor with the jersey.

How the heck are Columbia supposed to put up those jerseys in the window of their stores in SoCal or Madison Avenue. No chance they can put that jersey up as a representative of their brand.

 

[ingsve]

Obviously you Scandinavians stick together. A Norwegian and now a Swede. Like the generalisations do you? We can do that all day in the land down under. Really guys, nothing was said at which to take offense. But your great hope of the future EBH was mentioned and like a true fanboi, offense was taken. Read my posts, plenty mentioned beside the Tour.

I don't take offence because EBH was mentioned I took offence because what you said was not true and I care about the truth no matter who it is about.

You claimed that nothing was heard about him after the Tour but that's not true and I simply corrected you.

As for bringing up nationalities, that's a complete red herring and has nothing to do with this.

 

[samb01]

Enjoy the winter in Norway. Can you actually ride a bike in winter in Norway? I am well aware of why EBH left HTC. What nationality was he again? Thats not the reason why you've taken issue with someone ignoring him is it? Have your cry over one person on the other side of the planet not paying attention to one rider. I am more than willing to ignore EBH. If he was as good as you believe him to be, he'd have been riding, like Martin in France. We'll see about the future. Good move leaving HTC, because they can't support everybody, not with Siutsou and Martin also developing.

Opinions are like @rseholes. Everyone has one. Most are exclusive to the person who holds them. If I have the opinion EBH was quiet after the Tour, from my perspective I am right as I had no knowledge saying otherwise. Check the threads on EBH pre and post TdF. Lots more posts and info before July.

As for me not paying attention to the tour of Britain. Please, I noticed the basics and it was boring. Why would an aussie give a toss about a race in Britain? Anyone I like racing? Maybe in Norway after all snow based sports you've got nothing better to watch, here in Australia, the Tour of Britain isn't on the priority list. Go and sit in a good psychology class. People dispose of useless information very quickly, hence why I saw the headlines and didn't care. I regard the tour of Britain as useless.

Great post. I can't see how I can reply to this masterpiece without looking silly. Oops!

 

[yakko!]

Too funny Samb01...good points Galic Ho! I wouldn't be against EBH improving for the next couple of years. I think C-HTC's bet on Martin is a good one - my guess would be that they will work towards getting him experience in the week long races for the next year, maybe two, and then build a GT team for him.

 

[filipo]

Bob Stapleton described EBH as a 'once in a generation rider'.

Bob Stapleton, who got into cycling how long ago exactly? Seventeen minutes?
He may be right in this case, but when Stapleton opens his mouth about any part of cycling's history it annoys the crap out of me.