Comparing the routes of the 2015 Grand Tours

[Eshnar]

Why is it impossible to find the profile of Monte Ologno ( apart from the Giro website) ? After the top there is another couple km ascent to Piancavallo. There are 4 or 5 sides of Piancavallo but I didn't find the ascent which they do in the Giro. Piancavallo....not the right profile....Alpe Segletta...not the right profile...Ologno...there's nothing.

On cyclingcols its name is "Il Colle"

 

[Dr. Juice]

On cyclingcols its name is "Il Colle"

Thanks. Strange however. 3 different names for basically 1 climb.

 

[Berlin Cyclingblog]

I looked through all routes last week already:

Giro: a bit back-loaded, first proper mountain stage is after the stage 14 ITT. Nice stages though. 6/10.

Tour: everything is wrong with it in my opinion. Cobbles for the second year in a row, TTT with uphill finish on 9th stage after a hard first week, very few individual TT kms, no descent finish. 3/10.

Vuelta: Would have liked one less MTF earlier on and instead a MTF in the last 5 stages. Like the ITT and the descent finishes. 7/10.

So Vuelta > Giro >>> Tour but now that I think about it it's probably more like Vuelta = Giro >>> Tour. Giro should have had a proper mountain stage in the first two weeks, Vuelta should have a MTF in the last 5 days.

Thats like my opinion. Vuelta/Giro quite equal, but Vuelta is nice and not so backloaded.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Thats like my opinion. Vuelta/Giro quite equal, but Vuelta is nice and not so backloaded.

Yep! Both routes are quite nice, it's just the Tour route that's awful

 

[Kwibus]

So the Giro routes win, yay, 56%, yay!!!! Oh wait who's participating?

You did read the OP did you? I'm sure you did, but you just have to be like this don't you?

 

[hrotha]

Giro>Vuelta>Tour, obviously.

Also, Fleur, methinks you need some Stage Design 101.
If you leave the Mortirolo for the end, we're looking at some 5-10 km of real racing. If you put it in the middle, everything's supposed to blow up on the Mortirolo, and then you get proper racing from there to the finish. Even when it barely works (like in 2011), it's still much better than the alternative.

It's one of the most basic tenets of proper stage design, and one of the most commonly ignored by organizers: don't leave the toughest climb for the end, or most likely nothing will happen before that last climb. It's basically the same as backloading a GT, only at a micro level.

Considering like 90% of all mountain stages in GTs are going to be decided in an explosive one-climb finale, I don't know why you'd prefer the Mortirolo stage to be yet another example of that.

 

[Dr. Juice]

You did read the OP did you? I'm sure you did, but you just have to be like this don't you?

He is just trolling like always.

When Contador has retired for 5 years...he 'll still be the root of all evil.

His logic: Contador participates and everyone votes for the Giro...ignoring that he also does the Tour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You did read the OP did you? I'm sure you did, but you just have to be like this don't you?

Giro even has over 70% of the votes

 

[LaFlorecita]

Also, Fleur, methinks you need some Stage Design 101.
If you leave the Mortirolo for the end, we're looking at some 5-10 km of real racing. If you put it in the middle, everything's supposed to blow up on the Mortirolo, and then you get proper racing from there to the finish. Even when it barely works (like in 2011), it's still much better than the alternative.

It's one of the most basic tenets of proper stage design, and one of the most commonly ignored by organizers: don't leave the toughest climb for the end, or most likely nothing will happen before that last climb. It's basically the same as backloading a GT, only at a micro level.

Considering like 90% of all mountain stages in GTs are going to be decided in an explosive one-climb finale, I don't know why you'd prefer the Mortirolo stage to be yet another example of that.

I get the concept, of course. I am just afraid that either any time differences that will be created on Mortirolo will be negated on the 10km @2.5% or no one will even bother to try and create a gap. Perhaps a bit foolish but I prefer guaranteed excitement (even though it may not be in the form that many of you want) over a stage that could be great but could also be a complete letdown I don't like disappointment and you guys are all hyping up the stage. At least if nothing interesting happens it will be what I expected

 

[hrotha]

Ah, but that's where the history of the Mortirolo stages comes in, which is why people brought attention to your not having watched one before. The false flat/relatively easy final climb usually/almost always increases the gaps, and the Mortirolo is hard enough that gaps will open up whether or not the riders try.

2011 is the closest thing to this formula failing that I can think of, and even though it was a letdown we still got, by far, the best stage of that year's Giro (not that the bar was set very high, mind you). It's not guaranteed excitement, but it's as close as it gets.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ah, but that's where the history of the Mortirolo stages comes in, which is why people brought attention to your not having watched one before. The false flat/relatively easy final climb usually/almost always increases the gaps, and the Mortirolo is hard enough that gaps will open up whether or not the riders try.

2011 is the closest thing to this formula failing that I can think of, and even though it was a letdown we still got, by far, the best stage of that year's Giro (not that the bar was set very high, mind you). It's not guaranteed excitement, but it's as close as it gets.

Ah well, as I said earlier I'll just have to wait and see, I think it's something I'll have to see to understand how it works, but I trust you on this. Thanks

 

[Dr. Juice]

I get the concept, of course. I am just afraid that either any time differences that will be created on Mortirolo will be negated on the 10km @2.5% or no one will even bother to try and create a gap. Perhaps a bit foolish but I prefer guaranteed excitement (even though it may not be in the form that many of you want) over a stage that could be great but could also be a complete letdown I don't like disappointment and you guys are all hyping up the stage. At least if nothing interesting happens it will be what I expected

There is always someone who needs to attack. And they all know Aprica alone doesn't make any differences. It'll be a great stage. The only scenario for a letdown would be ....another big climb after the Mortirolo like the Stelvio in 2012. Or a COMPLETELY decided GC (at least a couple of minutes between the top 3) and the Mortirolo as last mountain stage. This won't be the case on stage 16 as it's the 2nd mountain stage ( + C.Matese as first MTF).
No more than 3 or 4 riders will form groups after having climbed the Mortirolo. That gentle ascent to Aprica...it's all about what is left in the tank. One rider alone can ride away from 3 other riders despite the weak gradients if he has more power.

Don't worry there won't be big regroupments...on the contrary...in 2006 or 2010 gaps were like 1 - 1.30 min after the Mortirolo and 3 min at the finish.

 

[hrotha]

Crap, I've been saying 2011 instead of 2012.

 

[roundabout]

2008 stage was a dud. But that wasn't because everything came together on Aprica

Edit: circumstances count as well, in 2010 the first group had the right composition otherwise it could have been 9 riders at the top together

Edit 2: 8 not 9

 

[LaFlorecita]

Crap, I've been saying 2011 instead of 2012.

That explains things I did miss a week of the 2011 Giro but still couldn't think of a stage that fit your description

 

[ILovecycling]

Btw its nice there is Mortirolo Aprica etc, but unless Aru improves in TT it will be all over by then.(before that stage)

 

[LaFlorecita]

Btw its nice there is Mortirolo Aprica etc, but unless Aru improves in TT it will be all over by then.(before that stage)

Little Richie and Uran Uran would still be ahead of or close to Alberto (of course if no one crashes)

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Btw its nice there is Mortirolo Aprica etc, but unless Aru improves in TT it will be all over by then.(before that stage)

Yep. Rujano will be long gone in the GC already. The last week is just there to ornament Rujano's victory adding a few extra minutes and stage wins.

 

[ILovecycling]

Little Richie and Uran Uran would still be ahead of or close to Alberto (of course if no one crashes)

I think that the 1st MTF + Madonna minus TT will put quite a gap between them.Not much more than minute but it will be clear who will be the boss imho.

Yep. Rujano will be long gone in the GC already. The last week is just there to ornament Rujano's victory adding a few extra minutes and stage wins.

exactly what I thought

if he finds a team

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think that the 1st MTF + Madonna minus TT will put quite a gap between them.Not much more than minute but it will be clear who will be the boss imho.

Wouldn't be so sure. Richie seems to be 2013 skinny this year

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Porte getting hyped up again as a major GT contender, so it will be extra dramatic when he has his bad day in the Giro.

 

[Dr. Juice]

Every version of a fit Contador (except 2013) rides circles around Lil Richie in a Grand Tour. But until Aprica differences won't be big..not more than a minute.

The Mortirolo is just the right place to bury the remaining opponents.

 

[May0maniac]

Every version of a fit Contador (except 2013) rides circles around Lil Richie in a Grand Tour. But until Aprica differences won't be big..not more than a minute.

The Mortirolo is just the right place to bury the remaining opponents.

Yes, i just dislike that we'll have only easy climbs before the Mortirolo, ok they didn't want to use Gavia after last years bad weather, but Monte Padrio before Mortirolo would be great.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The Mortirolo is just the right place to bury the remaining opponents.

that would be cool

 

[Dr. Juice]

Yes, i just dislike that we'll have only easy climbs before the Mortirolo, ok they didn't want to use Gavia after last years bad weather, but Monte Padrio before Mortirolo would be great.

Would have been nice, yeah. However...there is the Campo Carlo Magno and the Tonale before. They are both 2 very solid climbs, long and not easy.
15.3 km 6.1 % the first one...and 15.2 km 6% the second one. Typical TdF climbs.
Category 1 for sure ( in France they would knock on the door of HC).
We won't see attacks at that point....but it's enough to make it a very hard stage. The Mortirolo is the main attraction where the field will blow up.