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Hairy Wheels said:
Somebody on this thread stated that Landis was "heavily doped" on OUCH. Are you drunk? Have you seen his results? The only doping he was doing was the stuff you find in a brown long neck bottle. Honestly...if Landis was doped again and riding seriously he would win everything in the US...kinda like Horner used to. Wait a minute..........

^
This poster speaks the truth.
 
Feb 1, 2010
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The key thing here is to disassociate the message from the messenger. Like has been said here and in other threads, Landis is confirming in detail what lots of others were already thinking about Armstrong and cycling in general.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Nice strawman - I was responding to the OP that he appears upset that Floyd lied to 'them' and that they believed in them. The OP would appear to be happier that Floyd continue that deceit so as not to hurt their feelings.

To answer your question - if you had asked me last week:
Did Floyd dope in 2006? . .... I would have said "yes".
Does Lance dope? ........... I would have said "yes".
Do I think JB runs a full doping programme.... I would have said "yes".
Are the UCI corrupt...... I would have said "yes".

Floyd is merely confirming what I knew - and indeed what I said to you in the middle of last year.

Here is my position:

Did Floyd in 2006: Yes. I think he lied and lies about that one. I've always maintained this. I trust positives in testing.
Does Lance dope: Likely, but never tested positive. If someone corroborates Landis' claims, it will carry a lot more weight with me.
Does JB run a full doping programme: No way today, but definitely much much earlier in the game. The Landis lesson has loomed large with them and others for years. I'd place my money on individuals handling and arranging their own programs with little to no support from managers/DS.
Are the UCI corrupt: I don't think it is that clear, cut, and dry. I don't believe Landis' wild claims, and I don't think anyone will be able to prove it. Are there moles and cheats within that power structure? Sure. It's Europe afterall. ;)
 
Aug 11, 2009
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The "once a liar, always a liar" line is a tired and pathetic way to categorically discredit everything Landis says. I find it especially inappropriate to call upon things he said when defending himself against formal charges; like it or not, we can expect just about anybody to deny, deny, deny until the charges against them are conclusively proven.

If anyone really needs a reason why they should at least think about Floyd's recent comments before dismissing them, try considering to what extent these comments (unlike previous denials to doping charges) might fit into the category of 'statements against interest' which the Federal Rules of Evidence consider to be of greater veracity than most statements. Admittedly, Landis may have had many reasons for speaking (as evidenced by the emails), but there's no denying that the context is unique this time.

Another pretty simple reason to listen before judging this time is that (unlike a lot of previous comments) what Floyd is saying this time fits in pretty well with a lot of publicly available information, as many other posters have already observed.

If the goal is simply to catch someone in a lie and permanently discredit that person, then it's certainly easy enough to do the same thing with Lance Armstrong. It would also mean that instead of just lying a lot of the time (and quite amusingly so) that Bill Clinton must have lied about every important thing he ever said. What, bad example?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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No one is dismissing everything Landis is saying. To say his list is like choosing from a Chinese menu, isn't out of the realm of reasonable. He has demonstrated that he is determined to grind an axe, and has demonstrated that he will go all out verbally when an issue suits his purpose.
 
May 26, 2010
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scribe said:
Here is my position:

Did Floyd in 2006: Yes. I think he lied and lies about that one. I've always maintained this. I trust positives in testing.

based on what Kohl has said about corruption of testers and the U-turn McQuaid has just done on calling Landis a crazed and bitter person and are now 'allegedly' conducting an investigation* then having to admit taking LA's money was wrong....why would you?

Landis admitting to doping in the TdF 06 but denied using what they said he tested positive for...

*i imagine that just means an excuse for P McQ to jet around the world staying in top hotels at the expense of the UCI
 
Aug 11, 2009
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scribe said:
No one is dismissing everything Landis is saying.


Scribe, I know that you weren't ever trying to totally dismiss every word coming out of Floyd's mouth; but, respectfully, that seems to be exactly what the original post suggested one might do. I quote: "I just don't get it. How can anyone even begin to credit Landis with speaking the truth?".

Otherwise, I agree with you; the task is more likely going to be to find the few good "nuggets" of truth.
 
Feb 1, 2010
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I'm just glad there are investigation going on because I think we're going to get closer to the truth about cycling & sports in general than we ever have before, regardless whether Landis has an ax to grind. Personally I don't think he's lying to a great degree were we can throw out everything he says as baseless and crazy ramblings.
 
scribe said:
Here is my position:


Does Lance dope: Likely, but never tested positive. If someone corroborates Landis' claims, it will carry a lot more weight with me.
Does JB run a full doping programme: No way today, but definitely much much earlier in the game.
Aren't you contradicting yourself (a little).

I can't believe that at this point you need more proof of Lance doping. Remember what Ullrich said about people wanting more proof.;)
 

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