Contador a replica of Lance Armstrong:))??

[Christian]

Boring.

I don't like Contador because he makes cycling boring. I just finished watching the mountain-top finish of Paris-Nice and if it wouldn't have been for Contador, it would have been a whole lot more exciting.

It's like back in the day when you would watch Formula 1 but you knew from the start Schumacher was gonna win it in the end. Or you'd watch the NBA but everyone knew the Bulls were gonna take it anyways. Or ... when you would watch the Tour but you knew it would be the exact same as the last 6 years.

It's just boring. Last year's tour was fun but I doubt there will be anything like that for a while. Not with Michael Schumacher/Chicago Bulls/Real Madrid/Lance Armstrong - Contador.

But maybe there is a chance, as the speaker of Eurosport Germany said today: those climbing mountains as easily as Contador are often found on lists other than the GC ...

I think it would be good for cycling, if it were true.

 

[Merckx]

I disagree, last year's tour was alright, but it's not the same when you know the best aren't there competing as well. This isn't to take anything away from Sastre's victory, but the Alpe d'Huez stage definitely left something to be desired. I can only imagine what it would have been like with the Astana boys mixing it up.

 

[Christian]

I personally think that it would have been boring, but I understand your point that the best shouldn't be left out just because they're the best.

 

[Jamsque]

I disagree, last year's tour was alright, but it's not the same when you know the best aren't there competing as well. This isn't to take anything away from Sastre's victory, but the Alpe d'Huez stage definitely left something to be desired. I can only imagine what it would have been like with the Astana boys mixing it up.

I couldn't disagree more. I thought the '08 Tour was the most exciting I've seen, and the Alpe d'Huez stage was a thriller. The Tour is so much better when it's close and when there is no one rider head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[arrhythmia rules]

Agree the 08 Tour was good, the first clean top positions (excluding Kohl) since perhaps Lemond. I had hoped this season would be like it all the way through. When Bruneel started Astana both he & Leipheimer talked about a new start, remember one of the reasons the management did not pursue sponsors after Discovery was that "they could no longer guarantee results". They felt the doping days were over. 2006/7 was a watershed. Sadly I suspect 2009 is a new water shed only the other way. There are those who think they can still get away with it despite the passport - at least cheat enough to win and not get caught. Lets hope Garmin and Columbia and the others who are clean can stay clean.

Sadly I think we have a new Astana, well actually the old Astana / Discovery. So yes Contandor is like Armstrong. Too like Armstrong. Though I believe he could have been different ie clean and still had a good chance of winning more Tours and other races. Not sure he was a classics man but I am sure he could have won the odd one. He will now.
Sorry if this is too cynical. When Armstrong started his come back I thought he wanted to be clean, prove he could compete clean since he believed the peleton had largely cleaned up. Maybe it was that way but I no longer think that and cycling well really suffer if / when Armstrong is found taking. Which given all the secrecy, inconsistency etc. I feel is the case.

Shame he takes Contandor as well.

 

[Merckx]

That stage, other than Andy's performance was a major let down for me. It didn't seem like anyone (other than Sastre) had anything to give up that hill. Compared to some of the epic battles of earlier Tours.

 

[Merckx]

Sadly I think we have a new Astana, well actually the old Astana / Discovery. So yes Contandor is like Armstrong. Too like Armstrong. Though I believe he could have been different ie clean and still had a good chance of winning more Tours and other races. Not sure he was a classics man but I am sure he could have won the odd one. He will now.
Shame he takes Contandor as well.

While I admit, I was surprised by some of Contador's results (as reflected in some of my earlier posts) I think all this unfounded crap has to stop. He very well may be doping, but I'm not going to worry about it unless he actually gets caught. I think we should all just sit back and enjoy the quality racing we're gonna see this season. We all have reason to doubt, let's just put it aside until there is some proof on the table. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Jamsque]

I can't enjoy watching Contador racing. The Vuelta last year was almost painful to watch. I like seeing close competition between clean riders, like at last year's TdF, not one team that is hugely suspicious in many ways dominating and blowing the race apart.

And I have to completely disagree with you about the Alpe d'Huez stage again. Those guys were giving it all they had. Evans and VdV especially were killing themselves to try to bring Sastre back, but the Frank and Andy did too good a job of disrupting the chase. Groups charging up the Alpe at full gas the whole way was a product of doping, and now that the dope is (mostly) gone we won't see that kind of thing any more. Except from Astana.

 

[Merckx]

Except from Astana.

TBD. I refuse to call shenanigans at this point. You really think they're doping?

 

[53x11 in DC]

Groups charging up the Alpe at full gas the whole way was a product of doping, and now that the dope is (mostly) gone we won't see that kind of thing any more. Except from Astana.

C'mon, Jamsque - I was hopeful that you were above this fray!!! Like Merckx asks, do you REALLY believe he's doping? Why?

 

[Jamsque]

I don't want to get in to a big thing about it here, but it basically boils down to this: The winners of the 3 Tours before the Lance era have all either admitted to doping or been caught doping, and out of the 8 people that shared the podium with Lance during his run of 7 wins, 4 have been caught doping and one has admitted doping. Four guys from the teams that led him to those victories have been caught doping since leaving USPS/Disco. Add to that his long-term association with Michele Ferrari, and the more tenuous evidence of the Vaughters chat logs and the 1999 blood tests, and I think there are a lot of things that point towards Lance, and by extension the Bruyneel organisation that has stayed together from USPS through Disco to Astana, being dirty.

He's never been caught, and I admit that it is possible that he is clean. I just think it is much more likely that he isn't.

 

[Belokki]

I couldn't disagree more. I thought the '08 Tour was the most exciting I've seen, and the Alpe d'Huez stage was a thriller. The Tour is so much better when it's close and when there is no one rider head and shoulders above the rest.

Disagree...The Tour is best when champions, the big guns compete for the title...BUT last years tour was a major letdown for me...there were no real caracters in the peloton, like the years before! One of the old guard won it...and in a sneaky manner( compliment)

I felt that the odds on favorites spent the whole time waiting and conserving themselves...thats why they could not kepp up before...
Cadel ?(odds on favorite) is to defensive...he had to much faith in his TT skill...don't think he will ever take a risk in his pro career...
Sastre deserved it! He was the only contender to take a risk for the yersey!
The others just waited for somethig to happen...

Epic battles can only be fought betwen great champions with great support and palmares! Clearly today we lack those! Looking forward to a boring few years in cycling! There's no real rival to Contador...unlike Ullrich, Basso, Beloki, Vino, Pantani for Lance...

 

[Ovidius]

Contador is extremely interesting as a rider - I must agree that it is extremely suspicious. Comparing him to Armstrong is also interesting - because it brings up the same questions.

How does a rider do well in a TT stage, beating even TT specialists, and then go onto win major Mountain stages? I just cannot understand how Contador beat Wiggins in the Prologue this year, but two years ago nearly lost the Tour De France on a longer, vital TT stage in 2007. His form in TT has shifted significantly, makes me wonder if there is something I don't know about the Equinox! Does wonders for Leipheimer too!

However, Armstrong also did the same. Maybe Bruneel knows something about TT, that everyone else doesnt?

 

[karlboss]

Disagree...The Tour is best when champions, the big guns compete for the title...BUT last years tour was a major letdown for me...there were no real caracters in the peloton, like the years before! One of the old guard won it...and in a sneaky manner( compliment)

I felt that the odds on favorites spent the whole time waiting and conserving themselves...thats why they could not kepp up before...
Cadel ?(odds on favorite) is to defensive...he had to much faith in his TT skill...don't think he will ever take a risk in his pro career...
Sastre deserved it! He was the only contender to take a risk for the yersey!
The others just waited for somethig to happen...

Epic battles can only be fought betwen great champions with great support and palmares! Clearly today we lack those! Looking forward to a boring few years in cycling! There's no real rival to Contador...unlike Ullrich, Basso, Beloki, Vino, Pantani for Lance...

Cadel was defensive and had faith in his TT ability? I tend to disagree. Cadel is a different rider and has different cards to play. He isn´t the best climber, and certainly not explosive (watch him respond to attacks...), he isn´t the best time trialist, but close. You seriously expect this rider to attack? Especially with 3 CSC boys there or even 2?
I love watching duels as much as the next guy but I don´t ever expect to see Cadel involved except rasmussen/contador 2007 style, one rider goes away the other doesn´t panic and steadily brings them back.
Having said I´m an aussie and support Cadel, prefer mick, if nothing else he has a cleaner rep than many other riders.
As for the armstrong contador comparison...contador stronger in a TT as he get older and at a team with great TT pedigree no real surprises, but i always found it strange how much worse a rider rode after they left USPS...until they got caught.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Disagree...The Tour is best when champions, the big guns compete for the title...BUT last years tour was a major letdown for me...there were no real caracters in the peloton, like the years before! One of the old guard won it...and in a sneaky manner( compliment)

Now, I wonder why that was?

Epic battles can only be fought betwen great champions with great support and palmares! Clearly today we lack those! Looking forward to a boring few years in cycling! There's no real rival to Contador...unlike Ullrich, Basso, Beloki, Vino, Pantani for Lance...

An interesting group. Your "characters" all seem to have something in common.

You don't need palmares, or your name on some Hollywood style billboard to produce epic, exciting battles.
What you need is guts.
( I avoid the cynical "other igredient" that may spring to some folk's minds.)

I disagree with everybody.

The first week or so of 2008 was superb. utterly thrilling.
What followed was CSC doing a more than passable impression of Disco 2004/5.
Not utterly thrilling, but entirely predictable. zzzzzzzz
How all the "big guys" manage to do what they do in the high mountains, remains an enigma to me.

 

[53x11 in DC]

I disagree with everybody.

The first week or so of 2008 was superb. utterly thrilling.
What followed was CSC doing a more than passable impression of Disco 2004/5.
Not utterly thrilling, but entirely predictable. zzzzzzzz

MV:

I don't agree with your summation of what happened at AdH. I think that many in the cycling community thought that Sastre's attack was simply to set up A. Schleck's attack, to set up F. Schleck's bid for yellow. I also don't believe that anyone thought that Sastre (given his TT ability) was REALLY the card CSC wanted to play vis-a-vis Evans. I think there was substantially greater suspense both that day and in the TT. I wanted to see VdV and Evans do well that day - I kept waiting, waiting, waiting for CE to do something to limit his losses - it was too little, too late BUT we didn't know that until the TT.

There was a good bit still up in the air post AdH. The same couldn't be said for AdH 1999/Hautacam 2000/AdH 2001 etc. etc.

Watching 8-9 guys just look at each other and try to figure out what the hell just happened on Lacets 21 and 20 was pretty compelling (for me, anyway). Also, watching A.Schleck look like he could have put 3 minutes into those guys and NOT doing so was cool as well.

I dunno - just a different perspective.

 

[tarmicon]

No doubt contador is great rider but does anyone else think his arrogance makes him look like a **** when he does the firing the pistol crap when he wins a stage.

 

[skidmark]

Why is the discussion around the excitement of last year's tour only centered on Alpe d'Huez? That was an exciting and decisive stage, but the rest of the race was awesome compared to it! What about O'Grady, Voigt and Cancellara destroying everyone on the Hautacam stage, and the scattering of attacks that allowed Cadel to hold onto yellow by seconds? What about the Prato Nevoso where Frank Schleck got his seconds and yellow right at the end? I mean, even the now-tainted exploits of Ricco, Kohl and Piepoli made for a super exciting and unpredictable race.

It was good watching the mountaintop finish today and all, but you knew Contador was probably going to take it. That's not that exciting. In contrast, who would have ever picked Sastre before the Tour? Or even Contador and Rasmussen in 07? Nothing against Contador, his talent is awesome. But I'm afraid that this beginning of a dynasty will keep things boring for years to come, unless someone comes up to his level.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Contador is not a replica of Armstrong, in a way that, Contador races far more races for the win.

Armstrong in his best years, he was only interesting in winning the Tour, and when he tested himself in the Dauphiné, he sometimes won it as well. And in his pre-cancer years, Armstrong was a classic specialist, winning races like the World Championship and Clasica San Sebastian.

Contador however, seems to have the habit to win in almost any stage race he starts. The last stage race he didn't win since his Tour de France win in 2007, is the Vuelta a Murcia 08 (Valverde won it). I believe he won every other stage-race. Wether it was a preparation race like Algarve, or big races like the Giro and Vuelta.

Also a difference between Contador and Armstrong, is that Contador now has won every grand tour, Armstrong only won the Tour de France. Plus Contador was a lot younger when he won his first one. There are more differences, then similarities between the two.

The one major similarity they share, is they both had to overcome something major in their career. In Armstrong's case it was cancer. In Contador's case it was the brain tumor, or whatever it was (something life threatening). Both came back stronger than ever after that...and that's where, in my opinion, the comparison stops.

 

[ALBERTIÑO]

CONTADOR IS CONTADOR ; AND LANCE IS LANCE; THE DIFERENT IS THA CONTADOR HAS WON THE THREE MAYORS; LANCE 7 of one of them, but from my point of view will be more champion wining 3 in each MAyors, at the end 9 champions,

 

["EL PISTOLERO"]

I agree: Lance Pharmastrong and Alberto Contadoper are both Life Science pin cushions for:

weekly/daily injections of:
insulin/glucose
EPO
corticosteroids
hGH
female fertility hormone hCG
testosterone
Pot Belge (morphine, heroin, cocaine, caffeine)

IV feedings of:
cow blood spinners (Hemopure, Polyheme, Actovegin)
saline
glucose
corticoids

But then, all Grand Tour GC riders are medically doped too!

 

["EL PISTOLERO"]

Lance is lance and contador is better. Not more coments

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Why do you double post all the time and keep spamming the forum with useless messages? I've never seen you come up with arguments either.

 

[Christian]

That stage, other than Andy's performance was a major let down for me. It didn't seem like anyone (other than Sastre) had anything to give up that hill. Compared to some of the epic battles of earlier Tours.

I think you can't always expect more and more from the riders, that just fuels doping. They're not machines, they're human. And a human body can only go so far.

For example: Marco Pantani gunned up l'Alpe way faster in his "epic" victory than Fränk did in 2006.

It's up to the fan to decide: do you want superhuman performances like Pantani's due to doping or do you want performances that are compatible with what a human body can achieve, like Fränk's, or all the other chasers like Evans or Vandevelde in 2008?

I have to say I prefer the second because at least that way no one dies.

It was good watching the mountaintop finish today and all, but you knew Contador was probably going to take it. That's not that exciting. In contrast, who would have ever picked Sastre before the Tour? Or even Contador and Rasmussen in 07? Nothing against Contador, his talent is awesome. But I'm afraid that this beginning of a dynasty will keep things boring for years to come, unless someone comes up to his level.

I completely agree. I can tell you right now who's going to win the Tour in the next 7 years.

 

[Belokki]

This is the difference betwen Lance and Contador!!! When Lance has a bad day he loses seconds, when Conti has a bad day he loses minutes!

Fell sorry for Conti today! He does'nt heva a big body, he has to be resourcefull with his reserves. Where was the TD?! Contador rode almost alone all day