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Contador a replica of Lance Armstrong:))??

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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Indeed, but we all know Germany is obsessed with doping.

While other countries adopt a more pragmatic approach.:rolleyes:

Belokki: You are priceless. What are you going to do when Lance eventually rides off into the sunset?
Until this fall, you were jumping on anybody, over on the BR forums, who dared to criticise Contador. Now look!:eek:
If the majority of Astana followers adopt your philosophy, they will lose their future, for a brief rendezvous with the past.
 
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Mellow Velo said:
While other countries adopt a more pragmatic approach.:rolleyes:

Belokki: You are priceless. What are you going to do when Lance eventually rides off into the sunset?

I thought that did happen...back in 05...I can live with it...don't expect him to do anything major, he doesn't have anything to prove... just brings back good memories when I see him ride
Until this fall, you were jumping on anybody, over on the BR forums, who dared to criticise Contador. Now look!:eek:

Don't hate him...just his attitude...did not say a was a Conti fan, never did... just don't like when people make unfair accusations about people without knowing the circumstances, just speculate...I would have defended any cyclist...

If the majority of Astana followers adopt your philosophy, they will lose their future, for a brief rendezvous with the past.

Did not say get rid of Contador... but as you said you can't live from the past... Contador does that... he won 3 GT and thinks he leader whatever happens...can't imagine him helping Levi in the Tour this summer if he's not in top shape... He doesn't follow the strongest rider= leader code ( ex: Vuelta 08)
I like cycling! I started to watch it because of Lance in 2003, where he was suffering like a dog, but still was able to win! I supported him because of his past (cancer survivor), but I tought that he aged out and Jan would take over...imagine my joy when he won! He was the first rider I got to know and made cycling interesting for me... he suffered a lot on and off the bike and critisised by most ( maybe becase he's an american), but still pulled of the most amazig feat in the sports history!

Contador does not have what it takes to fill his shoes! EVER!
 
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Belokki said:
Did not say get rid of Contador... but as you said you can't live from the past... Contador does that... he won 3 GT and thinks he leader whatever happens...can't imagine him helping Levi in the Tour this summer if he's not in top shape... He doesn't follow the strongest rider= leader code ( ex: Vuelta 08)
I like cycling! I started to watch it because of Lance in 2003, where he was suffering like a dog, but still was able to win! I supported him because of his past (cancer survivor), but I tought that he aged out and Jan would take over...imagine my joy when he won! He was the first rider I got to know and made cycling interesting for me... he suffered a lot on and off the bike and critisised by most ( maybe becase he's an american), but still pulled of the most amazig feat in the sports history!

Contador does not have what it takes to fill his shoes! EVER!

All of those things are obvious about you without you writing them.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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Belokki said:
WTF?!! TO NICE??? He critisised his team mate of being to close to him in the clasification, he treathend to leave his team if he's not guarantied leaders role in his team ( did not want to foght for it) ! He's nice until things go his way, if not he's an arrogant, whiny, *****! Was a bit angry when he bonked the other day but hey, I saw that coming.
Believe it or not Lance is a more likeble caracter, a more complex one and a greater champion! Never a whiner, and has a leaders mentality! THATS what Contador lack and thats what Lance suggested he learn! To be a Leadern, not always riding with a silver spoon in your mouth...

I said too nice, comparison with mister LA... "he's nice until things go way'' could be aplied to mister Save-the-cancer too. ''More coplex'' ? So it was Stalin and Hitler too.Very complex! I am catholic and I believe in Lazarus resurrections, but I don't belive in Lazarus-resurected-and-then-Win-the-Marathon-Seven-times-in-a-Row...In the end he's JUST a TdF winer, specialized in winining TdF, so comparisons him with Merckx and Coppi... hm... Contador arrogant and LA not??? My Goodness! Well, no offence but for me, he ( LA) will always be more like John Gotti' (the former Gambino family capo and not the posible translation of Ivan Gotti's name( the rider) in John Gotti;)) than a sportsman. Maybe I'm wrong ,who knows, but there is no way to convince me he's the 'most', the 'best', the 'legend' etc... I'll never buy his cancer battle story. Is he clean? Maybe...Maybe he IS TOO Clean to buy his story...Better read Voets book, ''Breaking the Chain''.
In the last ten years he (LA) beat every doped rider...Pantani, Ullrich, all the dopers , but he was the only clean rider... Not to mention his nice words ( by the way of Kimmage questions )about mister Ferrari, Landis, Hammilton and how he fullished Basso. Lots of rider was doped, Zabel, Riis, Pantani, Millar, Heras,Dario Frigo,Petacchi, Sinkewitz, Rasmussen to name only a few, but only HE, was clean, the Cleanest ,the MOST Tested! I'm too old to believe him...The old communist police was better then him in created such 'legends'...He's unique..yes he was the the unique captain in the TdF history, who force the Yellow Jersey to carry bottles with water...This is a record! Chapeau! If somebody 'comments' , blame the blody Frogs, blame the europeans-hate-against-yanks and this will work. Sue the papers sue everybody who DARE to comments sue everybody who dare to have doubts! No, the cycling didn't start with LA! As a cycling fan I HAVE the right to have doubts about every rider of the peloton ,considering the last ten years of cycling dope 'history'. At least the last ten years...
 
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JavierOtxoa said:
I said too nice, comparison with mister LA... "he's nice until things go way'' could be aplied to mister Save-the-cancer too. ''More coplex'' ? So it was Stalin and Hitler too.Very complex! I am catholic and I believe in Lazarus resurrections, but I don't belive in Lazarus-resurected-and-then-Win-the-Marathon-Seven-times-in-a-Row...In the end he's JUST a TdF winer, specialized in winining TdF, so comparisons him with Merckx and Coppi... hm... Contador arrogant and LA not??? My Goodness! Well, no offence but for me, he ( LA) will always be more like John Gotti' (the former Gambino family capo and not the posible translation of Ivan Gotti's name( the rider) in John Gotti;)) than a sportsman. Maybe I'm wrong ,who knows, but there is no way to convince me he's the 'most', the 'best', the 'legend' etc... I'll never buy his cancer battle story. Is he clean? Maybe...Maybe he IS TOO Clean to buy his story...Better read Voets book, ''Breaking the Chain''.
In the last ten years he (LA) beat every doped rider...Pantani, Ullrich, all the dopers , but he was the only clean rider... Not to mention his nice words ( by the way of Kimmage questions )about mister Ferrari, Landis, Hammilton and how he fullished Basso. Lots of rider was doped, Zabel, Riis, Pantani, Millar, Heras,Dario Frigo,Petacchi, Sinkewitz, Rasmussen to name only a few, but only HE, was clean, the Cleanest ,the MOST Tested! I'm too old to believe him...The old communist police was better then him in created such 'legends'...He's unique..yes he was the the unique captain in the TdF history, who force the Yellow Jersey to carry bottles with water...This is a record! Chapeau! If somebody 'comments' , blame the blody Frogs, blame the europeans-hate-against-yanks and this will work. Sue the papers sue everybody who DARE to comments sue everybody who dare to have doubts! No, the cycling didn't start with LA! As a cycling fan I HAVE the right to have doubts about every rider of the peloton ,considering the last ten years of cycling dope 'history'. At least the last ten years...

Finaly! You admit it;)thanks:D
 
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Mellow Velo said:
Not even close in comparison.
Apart from the fact it was a couple of KMs from the top of the climb, then downhill all the way, only Vino and Kloden attacked and not with any conviction.
As you said yourself, a 30 man group, not 6 and not all GC contenders left alone.

Once, early in the race. Pretty insignificant at that. I've seen him race-and win in similar circumstance at the Midi Libere. Just not the same as having no team support on 4 days out of 8.

What about Disco in the rest of the race? This is where George Hincapie climbs so well, his name began getting mentioned in the press as a potential winner in 2006.

Belokki: Likewise. Look at things more objectively.

I would contend that the greater team failure was on stage 8 of the 2005 TdF. In a 30-man group, Lance no doubt should have had some teammates, and the results could have been much worse for Armstrong had his rivals ganged up on him more. He even admitted he was not having a good day. For Contador, on the other hand, it would have been a luxury to have a teammate in such a select group.

As to the fact that Contador had no help in the large chase group that caught him, you would think that the Astana riders were told to take it easy once their man was up the road. No one expected Contador, the best climber in the world, to have such a collapse on the final ascent.
 
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[B said:
shnhdsn[/B]]I would contend that the greater team failure was on stage 8 of the 2005 TdF. In a 30-man group, Lance no doubt should have had some teammates, and the results could have been much worse for Armstrong had his rivals ganged up on him more. He even admitted he was not having a good day. For Contador, on the other hand, it would have been a luxury to have a teammate in such a select group.

As to the fact that Contador had no help in the large chase group that caught him, you would think that the Astana riders were told to take it easy once their man was up the road. No one expected Contador, the best climber in the world, to have such a collapse on the final ascent.

It make sense shnhdsn! I didn't look to close about how much Contador blames his team ,about not suporting him , but I saw a Contador interview , where he said he was caught by/because hunger and because HE didn't realise how complicate will be and he 'forgot' ,true or not to feed himself. Could be true, lots of big names in cycling did the same mistake as he did...So sound reasonable what you said.
 
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Contador is a replica of no one yet... He needs a few more years to see how he rides as he gets more experience and wisdom. Don't forget he's still really young so he has lots more to learn. Anyone that says he can't learn anymore after winning three Grand Tours has never won anything. If you sit back and rest on your laurels than you'll never be a great champion. A great champion takes from every experience and builds upon it, like I'm sure he will from his "bonk".

But it certainly doesn't hurt to have the same formula Lance made popular in his 7 Tour wins...
 
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Gee333 said:
Contador is a replica of no one yet... He needs a few more years to see how he rides as he gets more experience and wisdom. Don't forget he's still really young so he has lots more to learn. Anyone that says he can't learn anymore after winning three Grand Tours has never won anything. If you sit back and rest on your laurels than you'll never be a great champion. A great champion takes from every experience and builds upon it, like I'm sure he will from his "bonk".

But it certainly doesn't hurt to have the same formula Lance made popular in his 7 Tour wins...


AT AGE of 26 ,LANCE hadnt won any GT, CONTA 3, (and able 4 if he had raced TdFo8,) so i can say LAnce at 26 age was less experiment than Contador now, I thinK Contador will be diferent and more than Lance. MAybe he will not win 7tdf but in overall GTours winning he will do more than 7. I value more to win 3 TOURS 3GIROs anD · 3 VUELTA, and some CLASICS, that he has said is going to race next years. FOr me , Lance, as person and cyclist pro carere is not a model to follow for Contador. COPPI, MERckx and INDURAIN, are better models to follow. What ever he is to young and can improve and learn much more. That is good news for the cycling
 
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lookkg386 said:
Trolling about this rubbish without proof huh? lets keep doping conversations intelligent at least...:mad:
I agree!

ANd please, if you want to complain about the top stage racers, please look further afield. WHy only moan about LA and AC? Let's look at Quick Step and Boonen. We know that Musseau doped, and that Boonen has been caught having had cocain (intentional or not is not the issue). I don't hear much talk about that, not like we have against Astana. Johan has never had a doping case on any of his teams. Maybe he just knows how to win races. Is that just not believable?
I'd rather believe people are innocent until proven guilty, and enjoy the tactics of racing, than bother about accusing without proof.
It seems more like people like to pick on those that win the bigger races (though Flanders and Roubeax are not small).
 
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cyclemad said:
I'd rather believe people are innocent until proven guilty, and enjoy the tactics of racing, than bother about accusing without proof.

Six positives for EPO. That is proof. Armstrong doped. There is not any question about it. It is only the tea baggers who cannot--as Ullrich put it--put one and one together who are denying the truth.
 
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Tom Morris said:
Six positives for EPO. That is proof. Armstrong doped. There is not any question about it. It is only the tea baggers who cannot--as Ullrich put it--put one and one together who are denying the truth.

Can I direct you to the Troll thread, you typing is not proof...
 
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Jamsque said:
I can't enjoy watching Contador racing. The Vuelta last year was almost painful to watch. I like seeing close competition between clean riders, like at last year's TdF, not one team that is hugely suspicious in many ways dominating and blowing the race apart.

And I have to completely disagree with you about the Alpe d'Huez stage again. Those guys were giving it all they had. Evans and VdV especially were killing themselves to try to bring Sastre back, but the Frank and Andy did too good a job of disrupting the chase. Groups charging up the Alpe at full gas the whole way was a product of doping, and now that the dope is (mostly) gone we won't see that kind of thing any more. Except from Astana.
Just a question.
You say, "except Astana".
WHat would you say of Quick Step and their dominance in the classic arena?
Musseau was caught doping and Boonen has already given defence against cocain. It os known that drug dealers who sell social drugs also sell performance enhancing drugs. I'm not sure that you can put Astana aside and not look at other teams and players where things seem to be suspicious as well.
And if we're asking those questions, what about Riis? He admitted to doping (because it was coming out anyway with the T-Mobile situation), and after being a rider has gone on to build one of the strongest teams in the world. If you are going to question Astana, you must also question them. Especially with Basso coming out of that base and Schleck sending money to EF. Don't tell me there is nothing to look into there, just because they don't win as often.

Personally, I'll give them all the benefit of the doubt.
Why? Because I'm a teacher.
I've seen kids underperform in some classes where there is lack of motivation, negative motivation, or poor guidance. I've seen them move to a class where the teacher inspires them, and suddenly their marks improve dramatically.
I've also seen learners who are not intelligent (even whose parents tell them they'll never do well at school) acheive phenominal results because someone has trained them well, motivated them well, and inspired them.
I've coached a boy in cricket (D team at first) by good guidence and motivation move from a D team bowler to being a provincial level bowler and batter in the space of 1 year.
I know, none of these kids doped. They were tested.


All I'm saying is that there is more to performance than doping. It is often also emotional, phsychological and relational.

I'll take the chance and give them all the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Contador is not a replica of Armstrong, in a way that, Contador races far more races for the win.

Armstrong in his best years, he was only interesting in winning the Tour, and when he tested himself in the Dauphiné, he sometimes won it as well. And in his pre-cancer years, Armstrong was a classic specialist, winning races like the World Championship and Clasica San Sebastian.

Contador however, seems to have the habit to win in almost any stage race he starts. The last stage race he didn't win since his Tour de France win in 2007, is the Vuelta a Murcia 08 (Valverde won it). I believe he won every other stage-race. Wether it was a preparation race like Algarve, or big races like the Giro and Vuelta.

Also a difference between Contador and Armstrong, is that Contador now has won every grand tour, Armstrong only won the Tour de France. Plus Contador was a lot younger when he won his first one. There are more differences, then similarities between the two.

The one major similarity they share, is they both had to overcome something major in their career. In Armstrong's case it was cancer. In Contador's case it was the brain tumor, or whatever it was (something life threatening). Both came back stronger than ever after that...and that's where, in my opinion, the comparison stops.
I think you have got a good point. They both had to battle life threatening scenarios.
They are both fighters, and that is that. They don't know how to give up and they have the habit of winning. They don't like to loose and they don't know how to give in or give up. Maybe that is what JB looks for in a champion.
 
Lance Armstrong knows what Contador's problem is: he is too nervous! In an interivew on L'Equipe he again said that Contador still had a lot to learn, and „with much respect, he is too nervous! He is too strong to be nervous!“

Is Contador nervous, and why? He certainly didn't have the strongest team at Paris-Nice to support him. Or is he lacking self-confidence for some other reason? Like not knowing whether he will be captain at the Tour? Armstrong also said that he wants to ride a good Giro but doesn't plan to peak until the TdF.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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lookkg386 said:
Can I direct you to the Troll thread, you typing is not proof...

Can I direct you to the flat earth thread. There was artificial EPO in six of Lance Armstrong's urine samples. Typing that you don't acknowledge the truth does not change the fact that Armstrong has been prooved a doper.
 

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