Contador's Power Numbers on Mt. Etna

[roundabout]

Dr. Michele Ferrari:http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=117

To be honest I'm not sure where the good doctor got 6.28 for Contador for those 3 km. As far as I can tell there's no video of Contador passing the 3 to go banner but estimating from the time Gadret passed and the gap displayed on the screen I make it about 7.10.

Which makes the VAM 1607 m/h.

 

[goober]

I'll indulge you. Gaps to 3rd in mountain stages with a mountain top finish

2007 Giro

Stage 4 0 seconds
Stage 10 27 seconds
stage 13 (MTT) 8 seconds
stage 15 43 seconds (from Di Luca to Cunego)
Stage 17 7 seconds

2007 Tour

stage 8 26 seconds (from Mayo)
stage 14 37 seconds
stage 16 35 seconds

2007 Vuelta

stage 4 0 seconds
stage 9 17 seconds
stage 10 0 seconds

2008 Giro

stage 7 3 seconds
stage 14 9 seconds (from Menchov)
stage 15 15 seconds (from Pozzovivo)
stage 16 17 seconds (MTT)
stage 19 37 seconds (from Ricco)

2008 Tour

stage 6 4 seconds
stage 10 2.05 (after Piepoli DQ)
stage 15 20 seconds (from Sastre)
stage 17 2.05

2008 Vuelta

stage 7 8 seconds
stage 8 0 seconds
stage 13 58 seconds
stage 14 4 seconds
stage 20 31 seconds (MTT)

2009 Giro

stage 4 0 seconds
stage 5 5 seconds
stage 16 29 seconds
stage 17 48 seconds
stage 19 30 seconds

2009 Tour

stage 7 21 seconds
stage 15 1.03
stage 20 3 seconds

2009 Vuelta

stage 8 44 seconds
stage 12 10 seconds
stage 13 25 seconds
stage 14 14 seconds

2010 Giro

stage 8 20 seconds (from Tondo)
stage 15 1.30 (Zoncolan!!!)
stage 16 54 seconds (MTT)
stage 20 5 seconds

2010 Tour

stage 8 10 seconds
stage 12 10 seconds
stage 14 14 seconds
stage 17 1.18

2010 Vuelta

stage 11 10 seconds
stage 14 22 seconds
stage 15 9 seconds
stage 16 34 seconds
stage 20 23 seconds

That's 50 mountain top finishes in the last 4 years including MTTs (46 without). Only on 7 of them (1 MTT) was the margin from 1st to 3rd greater than 50 seconds.

Why did you waste your time compiling such useless statistics?

 

[halamala]

To be honest I'm not sure where the good doctor got 6.28 for Contador for those 3 km. As far as I can tell there's no video of Contador passing the 3 to go banner but estimating from the time Gadret passed and the gap displayed on the screen I make it about 7.10.

Which makes the VAM 1607 m/h.

Yeah, you're right. I think Dr. Ferrari is wrong (again). There is no video of Contador passing the 3 km to go banner.

I calculated between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line:

Using Ferrari's formula

Alberto Contador

Distance : 3.0 Km (between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line)
Elevation : 192 m
Grade : 6.4 %

Time : 7:09 ( estimated )
Speed : 25.17 Kph

VAM : 1611 m/h
Power output : 6.10 W/kg

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Yeah, you're right. I think Dr. Ferrari is wrong (again). There is no video of Contador passing the 3 km to go banner.

I calculated between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line:

Using Ferrari's formula

Alberto Contador

Distance : 3.0 Km (between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line)
Elevation : 192 m
Grade : 6.4 %

Time : 7:09 ( estimated )
Speed : 25.17 Kph

VAM : 1611 m/h
Power output : 6.10 W/kg

Who know's????????????????? Dr. Ferrari may have had someone sneak some video for him and then watched it in double speed? Or his Beta tape was stretched out and was speeding up and slowing down randomly.

The elevation is at a constant? The gradient has no + or - factor? Time is an admitted estimation and the speed is also...Unless you have a gps hidden on that special bike the toy pistol uses?

Really these numbers are just some wild guess based on watching the television. Talk about bad calcs.

 

[bhilden]

I have worked on this sort of calculation with Dr. Allen Lim and I would say that Escabarajo's number's look pretty close to me. Lance was in the 450 watts range when he was in full flight. Contador weighs significantly less which makes something around 420 watts about right.

 

[Chemainiac]

Clenbuterolero......

It seems one man keeps tacking it on....over and over and over........nah....nothing baffling about a guy who ingested Clenobuterol and is part of a nation that has institutionalized cheating. No reason for any skepticism at all. Not like it has ever happened before....right. Not like we have been fooled over and over again. Get the Maglia Rosa glasses off your noggin and clean them off......

 

[Straßenrennen]

"I've looked at my SRM files and I was missing ten watts compared to what I can normally do in the climbs

This is what le Marvel said in the cycling news interview... and he finished only 1 minute behind contador, so honestly im not overly sceptical about that performance from alberto its more the standard of the rest that worries me.

 

[thehog]

This is what le Marvel said in the cycling news interview... and he finished only 1 minute behind contador, so honestly im not overly sceptical about that performance from alberto its more the standard of the rest that worries me.

He also said:

"I was right on his wheel when he attacked with 7km to go. I think he was on the big ring and it was the steepest part of the climb. It was really impressive. No one could go with him. I couldn't, for sure!

 

[hrotha]

It seems one man keeps tacking it on....over and over and over........nah....nothing baffling about a guy who ingested Clenobuterol and is part of a nation that has institutionalized cheating. No reason for any skepticism at all. Not like it has ever happened before....right. Not like we have been fooled over and over again. Get the Maglia Rosa glasses off your noggin and clean them off......

As far as I'm concerned, discussing watts is not so much about any particular rider doping, but about the GC guys getting more or less of a boost (in other words, whether doping is being kept in check and more controlled).

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

He also said:

"I was right on his wheel when he attacked with 7km to go. I think he was on the big ring and it was the steepest part of the climb. It was really impressive. No one could go with him. I couldn't, for sure!

A long way round to describe the performance as 'unbelievable'.

 

[Benotti69]

A long way round to describe the performance as 'unbelievable'.

Stephen Swart alluded to this when he talked about doping. He rode in the peloton in Europe when they rode up hills on the inner ring, then he went and rode in USA then when he came back to the european peloton they were riding up hills on the big ring, How? EPO.

 

[python]

once again, though useful and interesting, all estimates of the absolute performance (be it in watts or meters per hour climbed) need to include (+/-) tolerance. i'm afraid, the tolerance is wider than many think...

a strong head, wind, for example, on certain sections (or alternatively a tail wind) can completely skew absolute estimates.

the relative performances though, are easier to visualize and put into a perspective. in a (more or less) 20 minute effort conta demonstrated 4 to 5% superiority. (edit) this is the only parameter i will put in my long term memory cells. that is, until i personally see conta's vo2 max (or ftp) test or his watts record on a climb provided his srm was properly calibrated.

at this level it's huge. it's dominance !

any arguments as to where the dominance was derived from, are up to an individual clinic dweller.

 

[JPM London]

He also said:

"I was right on his wheel when he attacked with 7km to go. I think he was on the big ring and it was the steepest part of the climb. It was really impressive. No one could go with him. I couldn't, for sure!

Bjarne Riis changed his gearing in one of the stages in the '96 Tour - Sestriere maybe - so his gear looked bigger than it was.

Wouldn't be surprised if Conti's bike change was also about having a different gearing.

If you can make your opponents believe you're pushing a higher gear than you are, then that could be quite a blow to their morale...

 

[Magnus]

Bjarne Riis changed his gearing in one of the stages in the '96 Tour - Sestriere maybe - so his gear looked bigger than it was.

It was the Hautacam stage. His biggest gear was 50/13.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Wouldn't be surprised if Conti's bike change was also about having a different gearing.

If you can make your opponents believe you're pushing a higher gear than you are, then that could be quite a blow to their morale...

Bike change with chainring dropping from a 53T to a 50T, people are not going to notice the difference while spitting up a lung on a 20km climb, they just see "big ring" and go "oh sheet..." morale drops 10 points.

Smart move if that is what Contador did

 

[Magnus]

Stephen Swart alluded to this when he talked about doping. He rode in the peloton in Europe when they rode up hills on the inner ring, then he went and rode in USA then when he came back to the european peloton they were riding up hills on the big ring, How? EPO.

Seriously?

 

[Sophistic]

Dr.Ferrari is may be the worlds expert on orange juice but his scientific analysis are mostly crap, as has been discussed numerous times VAM is a pretty useless stat and certainly not one you can use to measure or calculate performance. And when we are talking watts/kg, Rujanos numbers have to be vastly superior to Contadors (12-14kg weight difference!).

 

[Lanark]

Dr.Ferrari is may be the worlds expert on orange juice but his scientific analysis are mostly crap, as has been discussed numerous times VAM is a pretty useless stat and certainly not one you can use to measure or calculate performance. And when we are talking watts/kg, Rujanos numbers have to be vastly superior to Contadors (12-14kg weight difference!).

You do know they are watts per kilogram, so the weight difference is already taken into account. Being a small rider has some effect of the w/kg he has to produce, but seeing how he mostly dragged Contador, he probably produced less w/kg, and considering his smaller weigth, his total watts would be far inferior to Contador's.

 

[thehog]

Bjarne Riis changed his gearing in one of the stages in the '96 Tour - Sestriere maybe - so his gear looked bigger than it was.

Wouldn't be surprised if Conti's bike change was also about having a different gearing.

If you can make your opponents believe you're pushing a higher gear than you are, then that could be quite a blow to their morale...

Riis also changed his blood out the night before the stage!

A 6ft.6 man making hills flat. '96 possibly was the most insane over the top Tour of all time in terms of over acting drug performances. Riis should have least pretended to be trying!

 

[CitizenErased]

Dr.Ferrari is may be the worlds expert on orange juice but his scientific analysis are mostly crap, as has been discussed numerous times VAM is a pretty useless stat and certainly not one you can use to measure or calculate performance. And when we are talking watts/kg, Rujanos numbers have to be vastly superior to Contadors (12-14kg weight difference!).

Your post clearly shows how you do not know what VAM is, let alone how to use it and interpret it correctly.
You mention scientific analysis, yet you fail to grasp a simple concept such as w/kg.
Spare us of your ignorance.

 

[Magnus]

Riis also changed his blood out the night before the stage!

A 6ft.6 man making hills flat. '96 possibly was the most insane over the top Tour of all time in terms of over acting drug performances. Riis should have least pretended to be trying!

Why would he change his EPO-fueled blood?

Riis is 186 cm (~6 feet 1) and was 68 kg in 96.

 

[hmronnow]

Riis also changed his blood out the night before the stage!

A 6ft.6 man making hills flat. '96 possibly was the most insane over the top Tour of all time in terms of over acting drug performances. Riis should have least pretended to be trying!

As pointed out, he was on EPO not blood doping, 6ft1, weighing just ~68kg. And, he certainly looked to be trying with painful grimasses and flem around the mouth. Doped yes, but he did not make things look easy.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Video of Riis 'looking like he was trying really hard' from 30 seconds in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwHlCl2s0UM

2 minutes in for a Dertie style turn of speed.

From the father to the son.

 

[hrotha]

Video of Riis 'looking like he was trying really hard' from 30 seconds in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwHlCl2s0UM

2 minutes in for a Dertie style turn of speed.

From the father to the son.

That's just slanderous. Contador's "father" wouldn't be Bjarne. No way!

It would be Manolo!

 

[ergmonkey]

Yeah, pretty much just looks like a guy cruising down to the bakery on a city bike to pick up some bread: