Contaminated Meat from South America?

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Jul 6, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
it maybe the test that caught Contador is new and has not been applied across all labs?

and it may also be that all the meat coming from Sth America is not full of clen?

I imagine the farmers will win this one :D
It may be that RFEC doesn't care. National heroes are national heroes...

I hope farmers can be national heroes in Spain, but I don't think they can pull it off. Not a lot of glamour in actually working for a living, whereas the heroes are playing in romantic milieus.

Since the Soviet Union crumbled, any country is going to have a hard time making pushing a plow look romantic...
 
Aug 9, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
it maybe the test that caught Contador is new and has not been applied across all labs?

and it may also be that all the meat coming from Sth America is not full of clen?

I imagine the farmers will win this one :D
As we all know, the amount of clen he was caught with was well below the 'normal' testing threshold. So other athletes not being caught doesn't prove very much.
 
May 26, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
It may be that RFEC doesn't care. National heroes are national heroes...

I hope farmers can be national heroes in Spain, but I don't think they can pull it off. Not a lot of glamour in actually working for a living, whereas the heroes are playing in romantic milieus.

Since the Soviet Union crumbled, any country is going to have a hard time making pushing a plow look romantic...
Depends on how much pull they have with in politics. In Ireland the farmers had huge pull politically, not so much now.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Looks like I got it wrong earlier...the Agricultural Assn spokesman wants to "support" Contador and suggested the meat came from South America. Now the actual Beef lobby of Spain wants to put Berto on the grill...
 
May 26, 2010
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Oldman said:
Looks like I got it wrong earlier...the Agricultural Assn spokesman wants to "support" Contador and suggested the meat came from South America. Now the actual Beef lobby of Spain wants to put Berto on the grill...
they must have people working over time to try and prove the meat came from south america and find some way to track it to a farm or region
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
they must have people working over time to try and prove the meat came from south america and find some way to track it to a farm or region
They'll have to find some meat with Clen in it first, wouldn't they? Doesn't matter if Alberto can't find his piece of steak. If we could keep the discussion funny it would distract from the efforts being made to protect this guy in his country. He had a pass from me in light of Armstrong's history but his unwillingness to stop this crap changed all that.
 
May 26, 2010
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Oldman said:
They'll have to find some meat with Clen in it first, wouldn't they? Doesn't matter if Alberto can't find his piece of steak. If we could keep the discussion funny it would distract from the efforts being made to protect this guy in his country. He had a pass from me in light of Armstrong's history but his unwillingness to stop this crap changed all that.
can't be that hard to arrange in south america can it?


nah he didn't have a pass from me. there are too many questions that have gone unanswered since '98, all the answers are under the carpet and until the UCI is wrapped up in the carpet and dumped in the sea it won't change so 99% of GT winners are dopers as far as i am concerned.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
can't be that hard to arrange in south america can it?
Beef exports from Brazil and Argentina are a multi billion dollar per year industry. If any report was found that showed drugs banned in the EU and USA were in their export products it would be devastating. I don't think you are going to find anyone willing to admit to exporting substandard food products to the EU.
 
L29205 said:
Beef exports from Brazil and Argentina are a multi billion dollar per year industry. If any report was found that showed drugs banned in the EU and USA were in their export products it would be devastating. I don't think you are going to find anyone willing to admit to exporting substandard food products to the EU.
Wouldn't need an admission - just test a representative sample with a high enough n (sample size), to determine the 'statistically significant' percentage of the total imports that contain Clen. I would think the Spanish Cattle Ranchers would be highly motivated to do this if indeed their products are clean - a massive marketing coup, eliminate the competition.

Though it's all academic as the whole tainted meat assertion doesn't pass the smell test. Just another lying cycling cheat, unless he and his team of lawyers can prove otherwise, the burden of proof is on them.

The rules clearly state that A and B positives (regardless of intention or source) result in a 2 year sanction and forfeiture of the result during which the test occurred (ie TDF 2010). If it is later proven by the Contador team that the positive was inadvertent, the ban can be reduced to a single year, but the result (TDF title) is still forfeited.

Any other result and we might as well throw away the rulebook. Which, arguably, they already have.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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TubularBills said:
Wouldn't need an admission - just test a representative sample with a high enough n (sample size), to determine the 'statistically significant' percentage of the total imports that contain Clen. I would think the Spanish Cattle Ranchers would be highly motivated to do this if indeed their products are clean - a massive marketing coup, eliminate the competition.

Though it's all academic as the whole tainted meat assertion doesn't pass the smell test. Just another lying cycling cheat, unless he and his team of lawyers can prove otherwise, the burden of proof is on them.

The rules clearly state that A and B positives (regardless of intention or source) result in a 2 year sanction and forfeiture of the result during which the test occurred (ie TDF 2010). If it is later proven by the Contador team that the positive was inadvertent, the ban can be reduced to a single year, but the result (TDF title) is still forfeited.


Any other result and we might as well throw away the rulebook. Which, arguably, they already have.

On the blue highlighted comment, I am suspecting that there are samples tested on the meat imported into the EU to make sure the meat meets EU standards. From the brief research I have done on this, all of the farms and processors need to be approved prior to the EU excepting the export. I would suspect that continual sampling is part of that approval process.

On the bolded part, yes those are the rules and I agree totally and completely with you.

My point was it is not going to be any easier to find Clen in that meat then in Spanish Meat. But as you stated, it is up to Contador's team to provide proof of the contamination. I would think it would have been easier to get a couple of the other riders from Astana that ate the same meal take Clen and give a hair sample for testing. Hair comes back positive and he has the same alibi as the German Ping Ponger.
 
L29205 said:
On the blue highlighted comment, I am suspecting that there are samples tested on the meat imported into the EU to make sure the meat meets EU standards. From the brief research I have done on this, all of the farms and processors need to be approved prior to the EU excepting the export. I would suspect that continual sampling is part of that approval process.

On the bolded part, yes those are the rules and I agree totally and completely with you.

My point was it is not going to be any easier to find Clen in that meat then in Spanish Meat. But as you stated, it is up to Contador's team to provide proof of the contamination. I would think it would have been easier to get a couple of the other riders from Astana that ate the same meal take Clen and give a hair sample for testing. Hair comes back positive and he has the same alibi as the German Ping Ponger.
Great final point and in a nutshell if the story were true they wouldn't hesitate to do it. Therefore...
 
I still don't know why they'd have a friend bring meat from Spain and said friend would buy imported meat from South America, instead of clearly labelled Basque meat, when according even to this guy in the article most South American meat ends up in France and would be readily available at Pau if they felt French meat wasn't good enough (and after all their cook bought meat at Pau later on). The whole story is ridiculous. It's a whole list of implausible things put together, each one of them could be believable on its own, but all of them put together is just... ridiculous, that's the word.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Alright. If that's the case why aren't all Spanish athletes testing pos for clen?
Because there are only 4 labs in the world that can test such small amounts of clen?

Just a guess.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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The yellow ear-tag is nice, too. Maybe that should be Livestrong's next marketing gambit. Too bad Clinger got popped, he would've tatooed his face yellow...
 
Jul 6, 2010
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peloton said:
Because there are only 4 labs in the world that can test such small amounts of clen?

Just a guess.
Top int'l athletes, four labs... I'm thinking someone would've shown up as well if it's as rampant as AC would have us believe. And once again, someone not in China.
 
Oct 3, 2010
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L29205 said:
On the blue highlighted comment, I am suspecting that there are samples tested on the meat imported into the EU to make sure the meat meets EU standards. From the brief research I have done on this, all of the farms and processors need to be approved prior to the EU excepting the export. I would suspect that continual sampling is part of that approval process.

On the bolded part, yes those are the rules and I agree totally and completely with you.

My point was it is not going to be any easier to find Clen in that meat then in Spanish Meat. But as you stated, it is up to Contador's team to provide proof of the contamination. I would think it would have been easier to get a couple of the other riders from Astana that ate the same meal take Clen and give a hair sample for testing. Hair comes back positive and he has the same alibi as the German Ping Ponger.
Hair sample from the German Ping Ponger was negativ. Clenbuterol can be detected in hair, only if it would have been used in high doses or longer term. http://www.tischtennis.de/aktuelles/meldung/11138 "Dimitrij Ovtcharovs hair sample showed then not the slightest evidence of clenbuterol or its abuse. Clenbuterol could be detected in the hair, if it had been used in high doses or longer term."
 
Sep 25, 2009
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minessa said:
Hair sample from the German Ping Ponger
you can post links and quote the case until cows come home, i've done it at least a dozen times, though i take a blood transfusion option very seriously, here, no one will likely change their opinion in the slightest or try to open up to an alternative - such seems the human nature.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Why doesn't Bertie offer to test his hair then?
we can't really be sure he hasn't but i'm not sure what it would prove. unless he's sporting a very long hairstyle the evidence is probably on the barbershop floor considering how much time has passed.

the clenbuterol found during the tour was a very small amount from a likely transfusion that probably wouldn't show up in a hair sample anyway. a negative hair sample would in fact prove nothing. a hair sample would likely only prove him guilty from many weeks earlier but i even doubt that.

you either believe alberto's elaborate story about eating contaminated meat imported from half way around the world on the rest day or he did a tranfusion. it's that simple.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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only since the contador positive are people crying out for a threshold for clenbuterol (which might be a separate issue worth considering) but where were these folks before this news broke? ...uninformed and silent. one minute people don't care enough to familiarize themselves with the code and the next they're bold enough to think they know enough to direct policy change? :rolleyes:

for now there is no threshold. until the code is changed a positive should get you a vacation, probably two years. if it doesn't it shows favoritism. there's no one who'll convince me that preferential treatment is beneficial.
 
BotanyBay said:
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that AC has hired himself a PR strategy firm in recent weeks. And here is the result of that.
sounds familiar...

"I'd like to see those controls. It's very easy. They send a proper first batch and, after the controls, the bulk of the lot. Or they fix it with a bribe. I have a relative who was a health inspector and he told me that there wasn't anything to do."

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6436/Contador-doping-case-contaminated-meat-from-South-America.aspx#ixzz167ffj8IV
 

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