Course change for Grand Depart (TdF) 2012

[The Hitch]

Is there not a difference between changing the route before its announced, compared to changed it after its announced?

Glad to hear its been changed to a better stage.

Hope Gilbert still doesnt ride it. He wants to wear Maglia Rosa. He wants Liege. He wants Worlds in AGR area.

Forget the Tour.

 

[Swabian Lass]

Well they changed the Green jersey comp for Cav and they'e structured the ITTs to suit the Schlecklette so nothing new really....

It's a way better route and it's not as if it had been announced. Having a flat stage around Liege would be a bigger crime imo.

Did Gilbert actually say he wouldn't go if that was the route? I missed that. Can't help thinking it would be quite funny if he decides he's concentrating on other things next year and he doesn't turn up. (I'm with The Hitch on this - I hope that Gilbert doesn't ride the TdF. He's got other goals and there are other races, although some days you'd have difficulty believing it.)

 

[Midnightfright]

Well they changed the Green jersey comp for Cav and they'e structured the ITTs to suit the Schlecklette so nothing new really....

It's a way better route and it's not as if it had been announced. Having a flat stage around Liege would be a bigger crime imo.

Did Gilbert actually say he wouldn't go if that was the route? I missed that. Can't help thinking it would be quite funny if he decides he's concentrating on other things next year and he doesn't turn up. (I'm with The Hitch on this - I hope that Gilbert doesn't ride the TdF. He's got other goals and there are other races, although some days you'd have difficulty believing it.)

if TDF departs from Switzerland any time soon I imagine we will start with a 75k cobbles timetrial.

 

[greenedge]

It's fine. Hopefully it can attract him to the race and see him get a win. However if he has a season like this years next year i might get too fed up of seeing him.

The harder course will also make it more interesting, i liked stage 1 this year and stage 4 both stages that did something to indicate form.

 

[auscyclefan94]

If it's just the same, pancake flat stage with just a little rise uphill, then I guess we have to hope Valverde's hit form by then, otherwise it will be just as predictable a Gilbert-fest as the former stage would have been a Cavendish parade.

Actually, to be fair, the first sprint stage of a GT is usually by far the most interesting, because Cavendish tends to struggle a bit in the first one then find his feet and dominate the rest, so it's less predictable (and Cavendish can still win it sometimes, see 2009).

But given the terrain around Liège, making a totally flat stage is just a terrible use of the area, and sure I'm known for hating flat stages, but there's enough of France that's flat and where you can pretty much ONLY make flat stages, we don't need to waste the areas they're using that can make some more varied stage design.

Valverde on form would struggle to beat Phil on such a finish. Don't underestimate Cadel on such a finish as well.

 

[patterson_hood]

Lets be fair, they've changed it for a rider like Phil. There's no way to know that he'll be on form and that he'll win it, everyone else can still give it a go. The same way the Green Jersey wasn't changed for Cavendish but for a rider like Cavendish.

ACF, I think Cadel will let Phil race this one, although he might try grab a few seconds from the other GC contendors by following him.

 

[mb2612]

Lets be fair, they've changed it for a rider like Phil. There's no way to know that he'll be on form and that he'll win it, everyone else can still give it a go. The same way the Green Jersey wasn't changed for Cavendish but for a rider like Cavendish.

ACF, I think Cadel will let Phil race this one, although he might try grab a few seconds from the other GC contendors by following him.

The green jersey was changed specifically for Cavendish. Prudhomme wanted him to win this year.

They also want Gilbert to win in Liege, so they have changed the route to help him.

 

[AussieGoddess]

If it really was as simple as they want Phil to win ... They would have designed it for him in the first place

 

[mb2612]

If it really was as simple as they want Phil to win ... They would have designed it for him in the first place

I think they designed it before they realised how good he was. Also you have a prolouge then the TdF doesn't like having a hilly stage on stage 1

 

[movingtarget]

They changed the route because the province of Liège asked them to. They're paying the bills, so why shouldn't they get to decide what kind of finish they want?

Yes and who lives in Liege ? They want the local hero to win. I think it's uncalled for ? Does Gilbert want it handed to him on a plate ? I am getting a bit tired of Gilbert's ego. Would Contador ask for a harder MTF ? The riders should stay out of the race plans. I don't think Evans would want BMC to have the Yellow Jersey so early in the race. That would not be part of their plan at all and if it happens it will be interesting to see how much BMC worry about defending it. Gilbert may not get a lot of help.

 

[just some guy]

Yes and who lives in Liege ? They want the local hero to win. I think it's uncalled for ? Does Gilbert want it handed to him on a plate ? I am getting a bit tired of Gilbert's ego. Would Contador ask for a harder MTF ? The riders should stay out of the race plans. I don't think Evans would want BMC to have the Yellow Jersey so early in the race. That would not be part of their plan at all and if it happens it will be interesting to see how much BMC worry about defending it. Gilbert may not get a lot of help.

Were did Evans make up time on this years race - the Hilly Power climbs, where did BMC ride on those days at the front, who were the most consistent riders on those hilly finishes Gilbert, Evans - don´t think it matters too much really.

 

[Hartog]

Perhaps Gilbert will close the gap when Evans attacks, allowing JVDB to win it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes and who lives in Liege ? They want the local hero to win. I think it's uncalled for ? Does Gilbert want it handed to him on a plate ? I am getting a bit tired of Gilbert's ego. Would Contador ask for a harder MTF ? The riders should stay out of the race plans. I don't think Evans would want BMC to have the Yellow Jersey so early in the race. That would not be part of their plan at all and if it happens it will be interesting to see how much BMC worry about defending it. Gilbert may not get a lot of help.

Ego? Gilbert just said it was stupid to have a flat stage in Liège. Phil lives in Monaco by the way. Contador has also complained about the lack of time trials already. A journalist asked what Phil thought of the first 2 stages in Liège and said he was disappointed in the profiles. Does he have to lie for a little punk on the internet?

 

[Boardslide]

The green jersey was changed specifically for Cavendish. Prudhomme wanted him to win this year.

They also want Gilbert to win in Liege, so they have changed the route to help him.

As patterson_hood said the green jersey competition was changed for a rider type like Cavendish's and to encourage more interest in the intermediate sprints which it certainly did. If it had been specificaly for him to win this year then there would have been more pure bunch sprints and not so many technical uphill finishes which suited Gilbert more. Also the competition was very close and came down to the last sprint on the Champs which justified the changed format.

 

[roundabout]

It's still the same disappointing stage only with an uphill finish tacked on.

Didn't Gilbert also hint that he may not start the 2012 Tour around the same time when he was disappointed with the stage?

Also the route was known for 10 months when it suddenly got changed.

Manipulation ahoy. Gilbert = whinger.

 

[patterson_hood]

The green jersey was changed specifically for Cavendish. Prudhomme wanted him to win this year.

They also want Gilbert to win in Liege, so they have changed the route to help him.

No, Prudhomme said it was changed because a sprinter like Cavendish should win the green jersey, if it was designed specifically for Cav they'd have dropped the intermediate and only given points to the top 4 or 5 places at the end with no points on any non-flat stages. Anyone else could have tried to out-perform him and Gilbert and Rojas had a good stab at it.

And again, it's been changed for a rider like Gilbert. That obviously includes him but it doesn't mean that he's guaranteed to win it. I do agree that both the changes had a rider in mind, but it doesn't mean others won't benefit from it.

 

[mb2612]

No, Prudhomme said it was changed because a sprinter like Cavendish should win the green jersey, if it was designed specifically for Cav they'd have dropped the intermediate and only given points to the top 4 or 5 places at the end with no points on any non-flat stages. Anyone else could have tried to out-perform him and Gilbert and Rojas had a good stab at it.

And again, it's been changed for a rider like Gilbert. That obviously includes him but it doesn't mean that he's guaranteed to win it. I do agree that both the changes had a rider in mind, but it doesn't mean others won't benefit from it.

They changed the points system form one where Cav was loosing despite winning lots of stages to one where:
1) You got more advantage for winning
2) There is a second sprint each day, so if you are the quickest sprinter you get a larger advantage


Sure you can argue it was for sprinters who are dominant and not specifically for Cav, but given the only dominant sprinter currently is Cav, this change was for him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Valverde on form would struggle to beat Phil on such a finish. Don't underestimate Cadel on such a finish as well.

I don't underestimate Evans on such a finish - he's one of the best at it. But he will be Gilbert's teammate next year, and though I would be absolutely mortified if Evans is asked to work for Gilbert on it, I think they'd be happiest with Gilbert winning in his home area and Evans being best placed GC contender as, Valverde aside, he's the best of the GC contenders at the moment on that kind of terrain. Valverde, well, we don't know how he'll be. But Evans isn't likely to challenge Gilbert for the win unless Gilbert's not on form since they're teammates, hence why I ask for an on-form Valverde. Unless they make it really steep and bring Rodríguez into play.

 

[movingtarget]

Ego? Gilbert just said it was stupid to have a flat stage in Liège. Phil lives in Monaco by the way. Contador has also complained about the lack of time trials already. A journalist asked what Phil thought of the first 2 stages in Liège and said he was disappointed in the profiles. Does he have to lie for a little punk on the internet?

Yes I forgot about him living in Monaco but he is still the local favourite in Belgium obviously especially since Boonen seems to have seen better days. Hilarious that Contador complained about the lack of time trials as most people seem to think he is unbeatable in any grand tour already. Maybe Cavendish thinks sprint stages should be flatter ? It sounds like Gilbert thinks the TDF owes him something.

 

[Nielsa]

I think they'd be happiest with Gilbert winning in his home area and Evans being best placed GC contender as, Valverde aside, he's the best of the GC contenders at the moment on that kind of terrain.

Yep, current form Gilbert can lead Evans up that finish to gain GC seconds, and win the stage as well. With no bonus seconds, no problems.
Gilbert will need to repay Evans for being the 2012 Jelle in the hilly classics.