Creatine overdose?

[Quickfix]

Is there anything else that could have caused levels this high?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/football/7166911.html

 

[centri]

I saw that on ESPN; pretty crazy stuff. I wonder if they are dusting something under the carpet there, ala omerta...

 

[ulrikmm]

Is there anything else that could have caused levels this high?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/football/7166911.html

Steroids and hard training: this causes the muscles to swell so much that they outgrow their compartments. This overgrowth leads to muscle destruction and oedema, and therefore a vicious circle.

One of the enzymes in muscles is creatinekinase. When the muscle breaks down, this enzyme is released and is measurable in plasma.

Myoglobin molecules are also released in large amounts, and lead to clogging of the blood vessels in the kidneys.

Therefore the risks of the condition is kidney failure and necrosis of the muscles. If surgery is not performed, all involved muscles may decay and die. "No more football for you, son".

This must lead to a legal investigation to place the responsibility.

 

[Cloxxki]

This seems to be an American specific condition. I've read on multiple American XC skiers suffering from it. XC skiers ARE pretty buff, just not like bodybuilders. They do a lot of endurance, which might work against the muscles trying to expand under weight work?

I've only recently heard of a European case, a recreational runner girl. Very skinny build, not exactly powerful, has some gland issues keeping her from putting on mass, not a die hard racer at all, she's obviously clean, but she got it.

 

[Apolitical]

This seems to be an American specific condition. I've read on multiple American XC skiers suffering from it. XC skiers ARE pretty buff, just not like bodybuilders. They do a lot of endurance, which might work against the muscles trying to expand under weight work?

I've only recently heard of a European case, a recreational runner girl. Very skinny build, not exactly powerful, has some gland issues keeping her from putting on mass, not a die hard racer at all, she's obviously clean, but she got it.

This condition is also caused by impact - which cause sever swelling, which cuts circulation, etc. A friend of mine got it in his foot when he rolled his ATV. He had to have an operation. Basically, they cut a slit in his foot to relieve the pressure. It's not really that uncommon a condition. If they didn't cut it open to get the blood flowing, he could have lost his foot. I'm sure this was the operation some of these boys had to have.

 

[forty four]

i and hundreds of people i know use creatine i have for years 5 to 10 grams or so never had or heard of issues. if it is creatine related they must have taken a *** dosage which would not be shocking as they are american football players after all. supplements containing creatine are taken by tens of thousands of people daily from all walks of life and health levels. highly doubt it was simply creatine alone unless again they took a ridiculous amount still seems very odd to me.

 

[xFrankyBx]

Most likely the kids were using mutiple suppliments trying to put on size and get a decent looking body seeing as how they are HS students. But There WILL NOT be a investagation into the school because the kids prolly bought all their supplements themselves. And If it was steroids they were taking they will be banned from interschoolatic play

 

[xFrankyBx]

which would not be shocking as they are american football players after all.

What are you tryin to say lol

 

[superleicht]

But There WILL NOT be a investagation into the school because the kids prolly bought all their supplements themselves. /QUOTE]

It once was quite common for Texas high school coaches to sell this stuff to their players until the legislature outlawed it - well, sort of. Don't know about other states.

 

[twothirds]

Steroids and hard training: this causes the muscles to swell so much that they outgrow their compartments. This overgrowth leads to muscle destruction and oedema, and therefore a vicious circle.

One of the enzymes in muscles is creatinekinase. When the muscle breaks down, this enzyme is released and is measurable in plasma.

Myoglobin molecules are also released in large amounts, and lead to clogging of the blood vessels in the kidneys.

Therefore the risks of the condition is kidney failure and necrosis of the muscles. If surgery is not performed, all involved muscles may decay and die. "No more football for you, son".

This must lead to a legal investigation to place the responsibility.

This is exactly what I thought. All your muscles are surrounded by fascia, that act like bags or sheathes to keep muscles together and to help facilitate their movement over other muscles and body tissues. You take a young HS aged athlete, who already has a raging hormone surge going on, then shoot him up with steroids, and you have an environment that is ready for ridiculous muscle growth. Problem is, that muscle is growing faster than the fascia can expand. As the intramuscular pressure increases, it's going to collapse the blood vessels. The first ones to go are the veins because the pressure is so low in them. This leads to deoxygenated blood being pooled in the veins, increasing the pressure and at the same time not getting back tot he heart. Necrosis follows.

This condition is also caused by impact - which cause sever swelling, which cuts circulation, etc. A friend of mine got it in his foot when he rolled his ATV. He had to have an operation. Basically, they cut a slit in his foot to relieve the pressure. It's not really that uncommon a condition. If they didn't cut it open to get the blood flowing, he could have lost his foot. I'm sure this was the operation some of these boys had to have.

This is the most common cause of compartment syndrome. Except here the severe swelling is caused by internal bleeding. You crack your shinbone, you start to bruise, but you also didn't realize that you broke open an artery. The blood flows out of your vessels, addind to the natural swelling and bruising going on, and filling your lower leg (the compartment). Heart keeps pumping, blood keeps filling, pressure goes up, and you now have a tourniquet effect preventing blood from returning to the heart.

This had happened to a friend of mine when he crashed on his motorcycle. He's a paramedic and while waiting for the ambulance noticed that CS was setting in. He pulled out his knife, and made a cut near his shinbone, and had blood, almost black from being so deoxygenated, pooling out of his leg. Saved the limb for him tho.

 

[ulrikmm]

When I was a medical student at a department of ortopedic surgery, Danish soccer player Preben Elkjær once had an injury when playing in Italy for Verona. His recovery from the injury was extremely swift - thanks to the fantastic medical technology offered in that country. In fact so fast that his muscles outgrew his muscle compartments - so when he trained, his muscles would swell too much and cause intense pain. So he had to have his legs operated (his muscle compartments cut open).

Like these footballers, he probably was ill adviced by his trainers.

 

[hfer07]

Is there anything else that could have caused levels this high?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/football/7166911.html

After reading the article, it's evident that something stinks-you simply cannot get that kind muscle damage, have high levels of CK, and pretend the kids weren't taking anything.
I used to take Creatine supplements, and the first advice I've got was the weight gain, water retention & muscle stiffness/cramping IF the dosage gets increased out of the established limits-I noticed gains in strength, but my weight went out of control, so I no longer use it. Creatine by itself is helpful under the recommended dosages, and works even better if you combine it with beta-alanine & some testosterone-enhancers like tribulus terrestris or the synthetic counterparts----now you put all those supplements together in the hands of high school kids without any supervision and guess what happens....

 

[xFrankyBx]

Yeah I can see that happening in texas those kids are born for football.
Another thing it could be or have to do with is muscle suppliment company BSN actually had a few bad batches of their NO Xplode sold and a lot of people ended up having kidney issues/failure. That combined with the already obvious issue of what looks like steroids abuse would cause something to happen.

But I've been taking sups for a while and I haven't heard of anyone having a CREATINE overdose.

 

[forty four]

After reading the article, it's evident that something stinks-you simply cannot get that kind muscle damage, have high levels of CK, and pretend the kids weren't taking anything.
I used to take Creatine supplements, and the first advice I've got was the weight gain, water retention & muscle stiffness/cramping IF the dosage gets increased out of the established limits-I noticed gains in strength, but my weight went out of control, so I no longer use it. Creatine by itself is helpful under the recommended dosages, and works even better if you combine it with beta-alanine & some testosterone-enhancers like tribulus terrestris or the synthetic counterparts----now you put all those supplements together in the hands of high school kids without any supervision and guess what happens....

im assuming with water retention and weight gain you were mainly consuming creatine monohydrate there are better forms which do not cause this at least for me. yeah beta alanine and creatine together make you more effective and the addition of tribulus and others even more so. i still dont get how 18 kids with various levels of organ function all got ****ed up very odd.

 

[forty four]

Yeah I can see that happening in texas those kids are born for football.
Another thing it could be or have to do with is muscle suppliment company BSN actually had a few bad batches of their NO Xplode sold and a lot of people ended up having kidney issues/failure. That combined with the already obvious issue of what looks like steroids abuse would cause something to happen.

But I've been taking sups for a while and I haven't heard of anyone having a CREATINE overdose.

**** scary i like bsn products generally but mostly use vpx more complete.

 

[forty four]

What are you tryin to say lol

that none of these kids will likely ever join mensa...sorry cant help it.

 

[DonTickles]

Anecdotal so take it for what it is, but a few years ago I started running in the spring like I did every year. I was also working with weights at the time and taking creatine daily. I quickly started having swelling issues with my calves while running, usually at about the 3 mile point, in the area between the meaty part of the calf and the heel. It would swell so bad that I would lose all feeling in my feet. If I stopped to stretch it out or walk the swelling would go down a bit, but would return as soon as I started running. I went to the doctor after a few weeks of this who said it sounded like Exercise Induced Compartment Syndrome, and sent me to an Orthopedic Surgeon for further evaluation. He wanted to do a test where they measure the pressure in the muscle while exercising. We scheduled it for about a month down the line, and that if the pressure proved compartment syndrome then they could do surgery on it to relieve the pressure while exercising, and that he had just done the same thing for a high school lacrosse player that was having exactly the same issue. In the meantime I took a few days off from exercising and stopped taking the creatine. I went for a run a few days later and went 4 miles without any issues, the next day went 5, and did 6 the rest of the week without any problems, so I called the doctor and canceled the test. Like I said, anecdotal, but I don't take creatine anymore, that's for sure.

 

[Señor_Contador]

To me, it sounds as though they took some form of adulterated/stale/outdated creatine product. I used to be into lifting weights big time years ago and took one or two creatine products myself here and there (the ones made my MuscleTech). Creatine definitely makes you stronger and is popular amongst people looking to get bigger muscles. I do remember hearing some horror stories back in the day… mainly people buying adulterated creatine from the wrong place and getting sick on it, but no muscle fiber rupture stuff though.

On the other hand… there is something commonly known as "oil" (Equipoise I think it's called) in the bodybuilding world, which is nothing more than an injectable form of oil that blows up the muscles around the injection area. Some bodybuilding idiots (Greg Valentino et al) have abused the "oil" and did develop the problems described in the post at the beginning of this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if these knuckleheads were taking creatine along with some form or Equipoise and the doctors erroneously diagnosed the problems as creatine overdose, which is an absurd concept by the way, like overdosing on chocolate, apples or twinkies.

This is what happens when you mis oil abuse and hardcore training:

My two cents.

 

[Murphyscu]

I would doubt "oil", those guys can barely move after injecting. My thought was too much creatine and salt tablets (some football coaches still think one has to replace salt and they encourage kids to "take their salt"), also so many kids are taking "precursors" they get over Internet, no telling what those are but high school kids on their football teams are heavier than college players of 25-30 years past. And they have that puffy look of roids when you do not work out for 4 hours.

 

[Cloxxki]

I just heard that Simon Fourcade, world class biathlete is also recovering from compartment syndrome.

Any new perspective on ways to get this?

Semi related, Kris Freeman, XC Skier, had it, got it sorted, and since hasn't performed to old standards. He's also diebetic but seemed to get tht under control better and better (more insulin).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Brett Ricchini was a top level triathlete back in the day. He developed compartment syndrome and ended up getting a pace maker installed, from memory. Not unlike Greg Welch.