Critérium du Dauphiné 2024, June 2 - 9

[Rackham]

You know what's amazing? That Armstrong dude never had a crash in any of the 7 TdFs he stole. I hardly remember that guy ever crashing period.

It's a combination of all things culminating in an increased number of mega crashes.

- rider behavior + DS behavior (shouting on the radio telling their riders to get to the front)
- stage profiles (like a bunch sprint stage with little cols & descents 30k from the finish)
- modern road bike technology (like disc brakes)
- road surfaces (some of these roads turn into a literal ice rink in rainy conditions at this time of the year)
- street furniture etc.

Armstrong has remarked a few times how back in his day the descents were taken carefully, whereas now they're drilled. This Dauphiné stage 5 was the last opportunity for the sprint teams so the chase was on irrespective of the road conditions. That played a role as well. We already saw the break riders have traction issues/crashing/slipping, so the peloton had been forewarned.

I could see that crash coming from a mile away & knew it would happen once they hit the descent of that small cat 4 climb, so I was not surprised at all.

 

[AmRacer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798722152763633671

View: https://x.com/keyshawn__bava/status/1798722152763633671

It was the dogs fault 😂

 

[Sciatic]

It was the dogs fault 😂

Oh god, what a terrible sound

 

[kingjr]

Could've been, but Pogi would probably avoid the crash.

With how slippery the road was today, it stops being a skill issue. All it takes is to touch your brakes and you're gone, and if you don't, you just crash into the guy ahead of you.

 

[Sciatic]

With how slippery the road was today, it stops being a skill issue. All it takes is to touch your brakes and you're gone, and if you don't, you just crash into the guy ahead of you.

Seeing that mobile phone vid AmRacer just posted seems to confirm that.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Paolo Savoldelli riding a four wheeler isn't avoiding that crash, they were aquaplaning at 60-70kph.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I love my disc brakes but I think when the peloton was on noodly steel frames, mafac brakes, 23 tires and no helmets, that riders were a lot more careful on days like today.

That's actually a good point. It's often forgot how less is more, i.e., a more fragile bike entails more conservative riding behavior.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I'd would say, as others have pointed out, R&R started riding bike late.

How long is this gonna be used as an excuse for crashing. It's not as though they've been riding for 6 months or so. They've been going a few years now, and if they don't know when to slow down when it's dangerous by now, then it's on them.

 

[Sciatic]

It's a combination of all things culminating in an increased number of mega crashes.

- rider behavior + DS behavior (shouting on the radio telling their riders to get to the front)
- stage profiles (like a bunch sprint stage with little cols & descents 30k from the finish)
- modern road bike technology (like disc brakes)
- road surfaces (some of these roads turn into a literal ice rink in rainy conditions at this time of the year)
- street furniture etc.

Armstrong has remarked a few times how back in his day the descents were taken carefully, whereas now they're drilled. This Dauphiné stage 5 was the last opportunity for the sprint teams so the chase was on irrespective of the road conditions. That played a role as well. We already saw the break riders have traction issues/crashing/slipping, so the peloton had been forewarned.

I could see that crash coming from a mile away & knew it would happen once they hit the descent of that small cat 4 climb, so I was not surprised at all.

I think in the days when there was a definite patron in the peloton (Particularly one like Armstrong) they were given more space to maneuver in a crowded peloton—some other teams domestique was less likely to barge into them to fight for a wheel.

 

[Danskebjerge]

With how slippery the road was today, it stops being a skill issue. All it takes is to touch your brakes and you're gone, and if you don't, you just crash into the guy ahead of you.

Well, moving forward safely is always a matter of how fast you ride. When you insist on fighting for position, an accident isn't only a matter of the state of the road - it simply can't be.

 

[kingjr]

Well, moving forward safely is always a matter of how fast you ride. When you insist on fighting for position, an accident isn't only a matter of the state of the road - it simply can't be.

From the footage I saw, most of the riders who crashed weren't fighting for position at all.

 

[Sciatic]

I love my disc brakes but I think when the peloton was on noodly steel frames, mafac brakes, 23 tires and no helmets, that riders were a lot more careful on days like today.

How dare you call my (old) steel frame noodle-y! 😝

 

[Izzyeviel]

Paolo Savoldelli riding a four wheeler isn't avoiding that crash, they were aquaplaning at 60-70kph.

You can't aquaplane on a bike.

Slick surface, someone touches a white line & loses grip & everyone crashes out of sympathy (or rather slamming on the brakes/sudden rapid handlebar movements in a low grip environment is what does it)

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

That one time when Ulrich waited for him.

The fact that we can refer to an Armstrong's crash as "that one time" says a lot about his luck when it came to avoiding misfortune.

 

[kingjr]

The fact that we can refer to an Armstrong's crash as "that one time" says a lot about his luck when it came to avoiding misfortune.

I remember when almost his whole team crashed on the Paris stage of the Tour 2005 and he somehow managed to avoid it lol

 

[Tim Cahill]

You can't aquaplane on a bike.

Slick surface, someone touches a white line & loses grip & everyone crashes out of sympathy (or rather slamming on the brakes/sudden rapid handlebar movements in a low grip environment is what does it)

Figure of speech, though apparently it's not entirely impossible to do, just have to be going at higher speeds.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Armstrong has remarked a few times how back in his day the descents were taken carefully, whereas now they're drilled. This Dauphiné stage 5 was the last opportunity for the sprint teams so the chase was on irrespective of the road conditions. That played a role as well. We already saw the break riders have traction issues/crashing/slipping, so the peloton had been forewarned.

But the thing is, why is the chase on? Back in the day the break used to get 7, 8 minutes and you'd have to drag them back later, so the riders would go slower earlier while the break built up a lead, then go hell for leather to catch them later. Nowadays the break never gets allowed to get more than a couple of minutes up the road, so there normally isn't any risk of them staying away that forces the teams to go all guns blazing on a rainy descent with a full péloton.

 

[Izzyeviel]

From the race jury

STAGE NEUTRALISED
Due to the massive crash at Km 146, it was decided to stop the race. Following this crash, the entire medical service was mobilised to evacuate the involved riders. In the absence of the necessary medical resources to continue the race, the commissaires' panel, after consultation with the organiser and the riders, decided to neutralise the stage; the last 21 kilometres to the finish were covered by a cortege escorted by the Garde Republicaine and the Race Direction. As a result, the panel of commissaires took the following decisions.- No stage classification;- Points achieved in the intermediate sprint and the mountain classifications that took place before the crash are taken into account;- The intermediate sprint bonuses are applied to the general classification after 5th stage;- Finally, no UCI points will be awarded for the stage

COMMUNIQUE MEDICAL
Chute à 22 km de l’arrivée :Les coureurs suivants ont été transférés en milieu hospitalier pour bilan radiologique

105) MARIAULT Axel (COF)- traumatisme du bassin (Pelvis)
.(134) HUYS Laurens (ARK)- traumatisme crânien. (Head)
(86) ROCHAS Rémy (GFC)- traumatisme du rachis cervical et traumatisme crânien. (spine & head)
(5) KRUIJSWIJK Steven (TVL)- traumatisme du bassin (Pelvis)
.(7) VAN BAARLE Dylan (TVL)- fracture clavicule droite.(shoulder)
(197) UMBA LOPEZ Abner Santiago (AST)- plaie délabrante du genou. (knee)

 

[jmdirt]

I dont understand ...people have been riding in the rain on wet roads since they invented the bike

...even before roads...

But we might have to discuss 'riding'.

 

[shadowrider]

The bicycle frames.
The narrower and/or differently shaped handlebars
The tires used. Especially on descents on wet roads.

The three main reasons why these crashes are becoming more common. There should be a limit on this, imposed by the UCI. Otherwise we will go from one catastrophe to another.

 

[ManicJack]

The fact that we can refer to an Armstrong's crash as "that one time" says a lot about his luck when it came to avoiding misfortune.

If I remember correctly, as Phil Liggett so eloquently stated, it was his superior bike handling skills that were developed racing cyclocross in the off season. 😉

 

[Danskebjerge]

From the footage I saw, most of the riders who crashed weren't fighting for position at all.

But we know they did, as that was what Evenepoel said afterwards.

 

[KOM]

But we know they did, as that was what Evenepoel said afterwards.

Its not like he doesnt have a long history, despite his relatively short career, of spewing all sorts of gibberish post race and later apologizing/walking back, doesnt mean its the case here idk. Just saying

 

[Tim Cahill]

If I remember correctly, as Phil Liggett so eloquently stated, it was his superior bike handling skills that were developed racing cyclocross in the off season. 😉

Perhaps the different cadence that he'd spent time developing was the secret to his success!

 

[Sciatic]

From the footage I saw, most of the riders who crashed weren't fighting for position at all.

I guess the assumption would be that when riders-teams are fighting for position at the front, it speeds up the entire peloton behind regardless of the danger (see the dash into Arenberg for example) and since riders behind them don’t want to let a gap go out, they speed up as well.

At race junctures like heading into a cobbled sector or entering a sprint finish it has probably always been this way, and it’s natural for riders to so.
But it’s a separate problem when at fairly insignificant points (particularly in lesser races) DS’s are telling/yelling at their riders to be at the front, let’s say like the descent in the Basque race. It’s not so much that modern technologies (hardly modern anymore) like race radios cause problems. But they do allow certain problems to get magnified. The problem being that in most cases when a DS, or manager, or coach in whatever sport can take more control over the race/game/match they will do so. Given the opportunity to insert themselves into the race dynamics by constantly telling riders what to do, they will use every opportunity.

There aren’t many Phil Jackson’s who will establish agame plan but then sit back and let it play out. Of course, he had the advantage of players directed the action on the court.