Critérium du Dauphiné 2025, June 8 - 15

[Gratemans]

I agree again. The Wolfpack days were nothing short of legendary. Boonen, in particular, was a personal favorite to me. I like extraordinary talents, and he had one. But the team, in general, and how they approached racing before was just brilliant indeed, literally attacking in a pack, swarming. Those days are long gone, that's for sure.

Yeah, Boonen was great. As was Alaphilippe. And I personally had a soft-spot for Terpstra.
But they were this kind of old-school team (which there are a lot of), but an old-school team that actually managed to get a sh*load of results.
Their boss also was a colourful character ofcourse, which I often vehemently disagreed with, but he and QS as a whole made cycling a lot more colourful and interesting.

 

[James M]

Yeah, Boonen was great. As was Alaphilippe. And I personally had a soft-spot for Terpstra.
But they were this kind of old-school team (which there are a lot of), but an old-school team that actually managed to get a sh*load of results.
Their boss also was a colourful character ofcourse, which I often vehemently disagreed with, but he and QS as a whole made cycling a lot more colourful and interesting.

Peak Ala before injury was a beauty yes I often forget him then, impossible to dislike him then for me, prior to the injury that is. I always liked Lefevere, what’s not to love about people speaking their mind when it’s just factual stuff? (Of course, not the personal things where he stepped over the line maybe even for me sometimes.)

But I liked him, I at least feelt he just spoke his mind with genuine good intentions in mind. What’s not to like?
Sometimes, the truth hurts to someone unfortunately, but that doesn’t mean it’s not well-aimed. I feel he was like that. Anyway, don’t know, I just got that impression, I just liked him.

Quick-Step won a lot for sure I dont know the numbers but I wouldnt be surprised if the reign was historically good. And for me many of those wins stemmed from the way they raced, as opposed to an overkill rider like, let’s say, MvdP. The way they attacked by swarming was awesome to watch as oppose to defending by numbers they attacked in numbers.

 

[Gratemans]

Didn't mind when he spoke his mind about riders he had under contract. They all knew what they signed up for. He shouldn't have spoken about a lot of other stuff though. But whatever.
Also: MvdP an overkill rider? I'm not particularly denying that (or something got lost in translation), but I seem to remember you are a fan of Pogacar? That doesn't really compute for me.

 

[Unchained]

Before the start of today's race, nobody seemed to doubt it would be a competitive stage. The prevailing sentiment seemed to be that Pog would be dropped or that this would end up in a sprint. Two days ago Remco blew the doors off the rest of the peloton in the TT and nobody complained that it's not a competitive race.

These guys know each other pretty well and with what they each normally use as tactics, pretty respectful, Pogacar or any other favorite didn't have confidence to launch from far away, the opposite, rode together until last climb.

UAE's guys were seemingly up front most of the drag to the climb. 2 UAE riders caught back on at about 25km to go and set up Pogi's launch. It looked like a crit finish leadout and when he went you could see from top view he spun up and then went to a bigger gear in sprint mode. Jonas was on his wheel and maintained contact until the corner where he went inside of Pogacar and got out of the saddle. He reset and began spinning and then shut down after a quick look at his wattage output. You can see Pogacar downshift and spin a bit to maintain cadence until a lighter grade allowed him to reassume a higher gear.
It wouldn't be surprising if Jonas backed off because he was overheated like Remco; who scarcely put up a fight. Jorgenson seemed to recoup, then rode up to monitor Remco for too long before moving after Lipowitz or wherever he thought he was headed at a pretty good speed.
Considering how oddly Remco, Jonas and Matteo applied effort; they did fairly well. None of them seemed to blow up except Jonas in the last 1.5km when he shipped some 10 seconds to everyone.
Some of it looked downright amateurish for pacing.

I normally like Tim Wellen's,, guy is smart and fast.. I really thought that Jhonatan Narvaez would have been a bigger factor on the team, guy seemed to have it all, went to UAE and is just sort of blah from what I have seen so far..don't know what his cycle is so not doing anything in June might not be problematic..
The big racing firecracker was Sepp Kuss..who is he? sort of stuff,
it looks like he and Visma has settled down a bit about him thrust into a leadership position.. He is riding OK right now..Ben Tulett putting together multiple days of excellent racing..His 9th today at a couple of minutes has him GC top ten..

 

[jmdirt]

Balls to the wall it was.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_3TlrZLpQ0

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Now you know how I felt in the Indurain era. Was a Rominger fan hoping for an upset after '93 but my hopes were crushed. But let's see what happens in the Tour. Remember Iban Mayo.

I still remember Mayo basically climbing off his bike and giving up at the Tour on year, only for his teammates to coax him back on it to continue despite being dropped by the "Postal train".

 

[Gratemans]

I can separate things to actually be objective. For instance, before MSR and Roubaix, I said both prior to the race and after that MvdP was the favorite to win and won deserwingly cause he did! Im not really a fan like that I just tell it like it is more so than anything. It was the most sensible conclusion based on numbers and route, it’s never really deeper than that for me, never.

I’ll be the first in line when someone out brute-forces Pogacar without an asterisk on a climb—don’t you worry there. With the numbers we have today, rather than ancient history that’s totally irrelevant and based only on wishful thinking especially since it isnt close it gets hillarious, thats all and looking behind get you nowhere in life and when people do this over and over and gets surprised I just find that hillarious thats all. Anyone who understands the numbers now knows it’s not even remotely close to any gap weve seen its actually kinda scary the numbers throughout. Pointing that out isn’t anything but objective, in my opinion. Whatever not important, but nevertheless the case. And obviously, I enjoy him too, yes.

Regarding the stuff about Lefevere and other riders without contract—sure, I agree . And my point about MvdP as an example as overkill wasn’t meant negatively, I dont mind overkill on the contrary as prior post about Boonen, I like extraordinary talents. MvdP has that like few others ever have had and just as fan of him as anyone else, he stands for everything I personally find interesting if im first gonne watch a sport. I didn’t mean it in a bad way, just that many of their wins came more from tactical execution rather than a single rider being dominant. I can appriciate both.

Well I think we agree in general. I do think our differences will lie in the upcomping Tour. As I will probably be posting in another part of the forum a lot as well.
Aside from that, I just hope that it'll be exciting and entertaining.

 

[Gratemans]

Going back to the race and what it means..
I actually wasn't dismissing the idea that Pogacar was sandbaggin it in the TT. But then he went and did this. So he clearly wasn't sandbagging.
My conclusion is: UAE TT bikes are probably still ***. But we're not at the Tour yet either. Nothing has fallen into place yet. Jonas might still be in the middle of an upward trajectory. But maybe Tadej as well (the TT performance is still very worrying for him I'd imagine though).

Anyway, one thing many people tend to forget: the Tour doesn't start for another 21 days. If I'm worried about any of the top-3, it's probably Remco. But the way this race has been going, maybe he blows them all of his wheel in the mountains tomorrow I don't know, seems like anything goes these days.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Well we have seen it before . I dont know what Vinge's level is or if he had a bad day today but he has beaten Pog before. We have seen Pog attack him and beat him and he has come back and won. Pog does look unassailable but cycling is a mysterious mistress . And its quite annoying that so many on here forget that time and time again

Most of us don't have a girlfriend let alone a mistress.

 

[woodburn]

Would love to see Jorgenson get a chance to ride for himself.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

To what end?

Playing the cat to the mice is not something new for Pog. He's done it before. Why? Ask him.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_3TlrZLpQ0

I saw Accept open for Ozzy in 84? Was actually blown away by how good they were.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I think the thing that was a bit shocking to me was that it was a Cat 2 climb he did that on.

 

[No Excuses]

So what for tomorrow? The queen stage, classical Alpine struggle. I actually think Visma-LAB will try to detonate the race and eliminate other teams helpers on the penultimate climb. They have nothing to lose if they want to win the race. Then Vingo will have a go on the last climb hoping his main rival is weaker than today. Obviously Pogacar's legs will have a lot to say and he may counter Vingo at some point and win alone again. Should be interesting.

Probably depends on the women's tour de suisse. Someone might or might not be in a hurry.

 

[RedheadDane]

Probably depends on the women's tour de suisse. Someone might or might not be in a hurry.

You think Tadej will be in a big hurry to finish, so he can cheer for Urska?

(Unfortunately, for him, I think Suisse is generally scheduled to finish first.)

 

[No Excuses]

You think Tadej will be in a big hurry to finish, so he can cheer for Urska?

(Unfortunately, for him, I think Suisse is generally scheduled to finish first.)

Yes, he was yesterday an might be today 🤣

 

[Sciatic]

Today was just discouraging. I’m not really a fan of Jonas, Pog or Remco in particular, but all I want is a competitive race, whether it’s the Tour or the Antwerp Port (non) Epic. I realized again today how important that is to me as someone who invests significant time and money in following the sport.

Well said

 

[Andy262]

Getting trounced by Pogi doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't a climber for the high mountains. But agree, not a great showing today. I'll expect a lot more come Tour time from Remco. If you podium the Tour, you're a climber for the high mountains IMO.

No I just don’t see Remco as a tour winner. Simply not a good enough climber. Hopefully next year he will have a crack at the cobbles.

 

[Sciatic]

Bardet giving Remco his bottle today. Bardet standing with Remco after his crash yesterday. Bardet pulling Remco with what he had left in the legs in col de la Couillole in last TDF. Bardet watering Remco like a green plant in the Vuelta 2023 14th stage...

Not only will Remco miss two teammates in next Tour de France, he will also miss a discreet guardian angel.

I realise I might cry after sunday's stage.

Still hoping for a miraculous long range attack and win this weekend

 

[KZD]

Visma needs to use Jorgenson since he has good legs. Send someone up the road on Madeleine and attack with him on Croix de Fer however Pogačar will probably just follow and then drop everyone in the final climb after a teammate comes back in the descent.

 

[Cookster15]

Hopefully no long range Pogi attack. Leave it until the final climb - last 5 km. It’s only the Dauphine, big goal is July and to defeat his big rival again who will be much better next month.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I think the thing that was a bit shocking to me was that it was a Cat 2 climb he did that on.

Well, that‘s just because they split up this Cat 1 into two Cat 2s for no reason except Côte de Domancy name recognition.

 

[Cookster15]

No I just don’t see Remco as a tour winner. Simply not a good enough climber. Hopefully next year he will have a crack at the cobbles.

Well I think he will improve on last year and then Remco was also close to Pantani’s record on PdB and pushed Vingegaard in the 3rd week MTFs. I think Remco’s climbing is underrated. When he is top form only Pog and Vingegaard are clearly better.

 

[fenns]

No I just don’t see Remco as a tour winner.

Not if Pogi and Jonas are in it - maybe he well get a chance in his late 20s if he still has his best form.

 

[Tanakka]

Not if Pogi and Jonas are in it - maybe he well get a chance in his late 20s if he still has his best form.

Well, during the years Indurain was winning TdFs, the race had 105-140 km of ITTs and often 60km of TTTs.

Not saying it will happen, but bringing back very long ITTs definitely could give him a chance, without having for him to wait for Pogi or Vingo to turn 35y.o.