crooked wheel

[daveinzambia]

Apologies for the basic question but i am technically inept

i have mavic wheels on my bike. I am guessing entry level wheels as entry level bike.

after a few months of riding was out one evening when notice bike feels strange. look down and can see front wheel is not straight. check and find some very loose spokes

went home, took bike to shop got wheel straightened all is good.

rode for 2 weeks fine and then due to chest infection was off bike for 2 weeks

riding again last night and noticed bump in wheel again, enough that it is now rubbing on break. am fairly sure it was fine the last time i rode it. Have taken it back to be straightened again but trying to understand what I am doing to cause this

The first time i remembered hitting a pothole the night before, hard enough it shifted my hands on the bars. i thought maybe that could have cause the issue (although not sure hitting a pothole could cause spokes to come loose)

but this time i am fairly certain i did not hit anything. bike had not been used and did not hit anything last night

anyone got any thoughts

 

[ustabe]

It's quite possible that the mechanic who trued your wheel straightened the rim but did not pre-stress the wheel. After spoke tension has been altered the spokes are sometimes twisted, the ends become unseated in the rim or hub, and the rim has not fully conformed to the new spoke tensions. As soon as you rode on the wheel everything got settled in and the rim took a new hop.

I recommend taking the wheel to the shop manager and asking him how the shop intends to fix it. The solution should involve re-truing and pre-stressing. This is an iterative process. Often several cycles of truing and pre-stressing are required, but this should be completed before the wheel is returned to the customer.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

there's a wheel builder thread in this forum:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=4472

go to the last page or so... you'll have to search around that thread a bit. But if the wheels were prestressed then sounds like your spokes are loosening under normal use. Did the shop who trued the wheels use something to fix the spokes in the nipples? Should use a nipple cream or Loctite compound... otherwise they will loosen under normal riding.

 

[daveinzambia]

thanks for the advice guys. Have already dropped the wheel at the same shop and they said they would consider fixing it again for free. At least now when I go back to discuss why it happened i can have something to discuss with them

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Spoke torsion (twist) would only be a culprit if the spokes were round gauge. I think Mavic uses bladed spokes in their entire family of road wheels right down to the Aksium, so this would eliminate Colonel Mustard, Clue ref.

First problem is Mavic, they couldn't design or build a decent wheel if their lives depended on it, for a serious while now. daveinzambia, let us know more about the wheels, model and age. Must also know, how much do you weigh?

 

[Slipstream]

First problem is Mavic, they couldn't design or build a decent wheel if their lives depended on it, for a serious while now.

Your kidding right ?

Mavic are one of the industries outstanding manufactures of wheels amongst other things.

I've owned two sets of Mavic Ksyriums Elites 2009 / 2011. Put thousands of miles on each set. Never once did I encounter a problem with them. Each set stayed as true as the day I purchased them. No broken spokes nothing. And they were ridden over plenty of potholes and some pretty rough roads.

 

[LugHugger]

Your kidding right ?

Mavic are one of the industries outstanding manufactures of wheels amongst other things.

I've owned two sets of Mavic Ksyriums Elites 2009 / 2011. Put thousands of miles on each set. Never once did I encounter a problem with them. Each set stayed as true as the day I purchased them. No broken spokes nothing. And they were ridden over plenty of potholes and some pretty rough roads.

This is also my experience. I can not say a bad word about Mavic. I ride probably 10-12,000 miles pa in a temperate N European climate (that means wet and mucky!). I do service them twice a year but then you would, wouldn't you?

There are people who ride Mavic wheels and are VERY happy with their products.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Your kidding right ?

Mavic are one of the industries outstanding manufactures of wheels amongst other things.

I've owned two sets of Mavic Ksyriums Elites 2009 / 2011. Put thousands of miles on each set. Never once did I encounter a problem with them. Each set stayed as true as the day I purchased them. No broken spokes nothing. And they were ridden over plenty of potholes and some pretty rough roads.

Well, as a bike shop owner, I see busted Kryriums all the time. This coupled with FH problems(due to the cheezy plastic bushing in the freehub and 2 pawls instead of the industry standard of 3), noisy wedges and eyelets in OpenPros, eyelets pulling out of MA-3(OpenSport a better rim now), I'd say Mavic is spending too much time on whizbangery, clothes and shoes(and now helmets) and not enough on design and QC of their more basic wheels and rims.

For rims, because of the OpenPro problems, which have been around for more than a decade w/o any acknowledgment let alone fix, I look to other rims for wheelbuilds. Velocity, DT, Ambrosio. FAR better rims than mavic. Better companies also.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Your kidding right ?

Mavic are one of the industries outstanding manufactures of wheels amongst other things.

I've owned two sets of Mavic Ksyriums Elites 2009 / 2011. Put thousands of miles on each set. Never once did I encounter a problem with them. Each set stayed as true as the day I purchased them. No broken spokes nothing. And they were ridden over plenty of potholes and some pretty rough roads.

No I'm not kidding. Been in the industry for over 20 years, worked at half a dozen shops, 2 distributors, in just about every capacity, mostly wheels. Ask any shop which wheels are the worst in the biz, the answer will invariably come back Mavic every time. I'm in regular contact with about 30-40 shops a week, and every Spring they can count on a dozen or more Mavic wheels for repair or warranty coming through their doors.

So, all being said, Bustedknuckle and I aren't trying to cause a riot by slamming Mavic, these are just the facts Jack. If you want to give a wheel builder a headache just mention Mavic. I dropped all repairs from my wheel building biz specifically so I wouldn't have to deal with the M anymore, they are the worst.

How much do you weigh?

 

[ustabe]

Offering to do the job over was the correct response. I find truing SLs difficult, too, because there's a lot of friction between spoke and nipple.

While Ksyriums would not be my first choice for a a $1000 sub-1500 g wheel set, I have no complaints about the set that came with my bike, except for the cassette body. I overhaul mine regularly. Maintenance isn't difficult once you get the hang of it, or a shop can do it for about $20.

Frankly, I find some of Mavic's wheel designs puzzling, but I've never ridden most of them. Over the decades, though Mavic gets my respect for Montlehry, GP4, Open Pro, and Reflex rims.

 

[Benotti69]

No I'm not kidding. Been in the industry for over 20 years, worked at half a dozen shops, 2 distributors, in just about every capacity, mostly wheels. Ask any shop which wheels are the worst in the biz, the answer will invariably come back Mavic every time. I'm in regular contact with about 30-40 shops a week, and every Spring they can count on a dozen or more Mavic wheels for repair or warranty coming through their doors.

So, all being said, Bustedknuckle and I aren't trying to cause a riot by slamming Mavic, these are just the facts Jack. If you want to give a wheel builder a headache just mention Mavic. I dropped all repairs from my wheel building biz specifically so I wouldn't have to deal with the M anymore, they are the worst.

How much do you weigh?

I am curious RDV4, if Mavic are the worst IYO who are the best IYO?

cheers

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Over the decades, though Mavic gets my respect for Montlehry, GP4, Open Pro, and Reflex rims.

Mavic has been on a steady decline since the sale to Solomon over ten years ago now, even before then the rims weren't that great. In the early 90's at the shop where I learned my craft the last straw was a GP4 order of 40 rims that all went back due to rattling eyelets and egg shapes instead of round. After that all Mavic stock was liquidated and replaced with Ambrosio. Personally, for my own biz I've been building with Ambrosio rims since 1999, never received a defective rim from them, ever.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I am curious RDV4, if Mavic are the worst IYO who are the best IYO?

cheers

Ha! That's easy! A custom build from myself or Bustedknuckle...

 

[kiwirider]

Mavic has been on a steady decline since the sale to Solomon over ten years ago now, even before then the rims weren't that great. In the early 90's at the shop where I learned my craft the last straw was a GP4 order of 40 rims that all went back due to rattling eyelets and egg shapes instead of round. After that all Mavic stock was liquidated and replaced with Ambrosio. Personally, for my own biz I've been building with Ambrosio rims since 1999, never received a defective rim from them, ever.

Slight hijacking of the thread (apologies to the OP), but quick question for RDV4 as to what you think of the hub quality on Ambrosio's factory built wheels?

My better half wants a new set of road wheels as she finds the gutters on the Campag Ventos that she runs too hard to work with, so can't change tyres if she flats on a ride. Try as I might, I can't get her to go for a nice set of handbuilts, and have been struggling to find some factory wheels that will work for her ...

Thanks for any words of wisdom you can give - and again, apologies to the OP.

 

[Benotti69]

Ha! That's easy! A custom build from myself or Bustedknuckle...

and with what hubs, spokes and rims? Ambrosio?

have yet to see a set of RDV4Roubaix wheels or bustedknuckles yet in europe, but show us what you got.

 

[daveinzambia]

Spoke torsion (twist) would only be a culprit if the spokes were round gauge. I think Mavic uses bladed spokes in their entire family of road wheels right down to the Aksium, so this would eliminate Colonel Mustard, Clue ref.

First problem is Mavic, they couldn't design or build a decent wheel if their lives depended on it, for a serious while now. daveinzambia, let us know more about the wheels, model and age. Must also know, how much do you weigh?

You are right the wheel does have the blade spokes. I believe the wheel details are as follows (as arrived with Malvern Star bike). front wheel is the problem

FRONT HUB Mavic Aksium
REAR HUB Mavic Aksium
RIMS Mavic Aksium Mavic Rim Tape
SPOKES Mavic Aksium

oh and i weigh cough *85kgs* cough.

Currently ride about 6 or 7 hours a week, looking to increase that to 10
Most of my rides are on city roads so pot holes etc are a risk, but like i say i am fairly sure there was nothing that could have caused the second issue

 

[kuoirad]

For rims, because of the OpenPro problems, which have been around for more than a decade w/o any acknowledgment let alone fix, I look to other rims for wheelbuilds. Velocity, DT, Ambrosio. FAR better rims than mavic. Better companies also.

What's the long-term Open Pro problem you're talking about? I'm curious. I consider myself lucking out bigtime in finding a very nice wheelset of Open Pros w/ Ultegra hubs (and double-butted Wheelsmith spokes) for $120 off CL when I was rebuilding my bike. Then again, I'm a much heavier and less frequent/dedicated rider compared to some of you guys. And my mechanic "signed off" on them.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Slight hijacking of the thread (apologies to the OP), but quick question for RDV4 as to what you think of the hub quality on Ambrosio's factory built wheels?

Ambrosio wheels are built with hubs from FAC Michelin (Miche). On the other hand, their hubs may be good, but they use the Chaiwan made Zipp rims for their family of carbon wheels, those rims are very poor quality.

My better half wants a new set of road wheels as she finds the gutters on the Campag Ventos that she runs too hard to work with, so can't change tyres if she flats on a ride. Try as I might, I can't get her to go for a nice set of handbuilts, and have been struggling to find some factory wheels that will work for her ...

Thanks for any words of wisdom you can give - and again, apologies to the OP.

She could have a custom build with Miche Racing Box hubs, nice big choice of rims, and DT/Sapim/Pillar/whatever spokes for the about the same price as a cheap pair of mass production wheels, and they would be much nicer, built specifically for her and her riding requirements.

Custom doesn't mean expensive, if that's what you're getting at, it's an urban myth perpetuated on internet cycling forums.

 

[kiwirider]

She could have a custom build with Miche Racing Box hubs, nice big choice of rims, and DT/Sapim/Pillar/whatever spokes for the about the same price as a cheap pair of mass production wheels, and they would be much nicer, built specifically for her and her riding requirements.

Custom doesn't mean expensive, if that's what you're getting at, it's an urban myth perpetuated on internet cycling forums.

Thanks for the reply.

And believe me, I hear everything that you are saying about custom wheels - save for the Crosslinks that came on my first 'Dale MTB, that's all I have ever run - and now that I've learned how to build my own wheels, it's likely all that I will ever run in the future ... So believe me, we're on completely the same page on that topic.

Sadly, the better half's reasoning comes down to aesthetics ... she likes the look of low spoke count wheels ... And that's something that no amount of appealing to all the good reasons for going custom built is ever going to change ... unless you know of some good quality 24 spoke (Campag freehub) hubs and rims???

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

and with what hubs, spokes and rims? Ambrosio?

have yet to see a set of RDV4Roubaix wheels or bustedknuckles yet in europe, but show us what you got.

I use the EDCO Super G in all of my builds for the last 11 years. Ambrosio rims I mainly use are the Excellence and Nemesis, some Excellight SSC, Crono F20, and Montreal. Velocity A23's and Major Tom's. For carbon race wheels I recently started using Alchemy hubs and ENVE rims. Sapim Race has been my mainstay spoke for many years, CX-Ray for all the pure race applications, DT's in a emergency. Making the switch to Pillar as soon as I'm out of my Sapim stock, probably during this winter sometime.

I've got customers in just about all of Europe, and the whole of England, Scotland, Ireland. None in Italy. Can't ship there because the Italian package handlers are notorious for stealing and damaging the goods inside.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

oh and i weigh cough *85kgs* cough.

We're the same weight. Ever since Mavic started offering wheel sets they've never really been a builder for the heavyweight rider. Some get by with them just fine regardless of weight, but it's luck of the draw. Wheels are the most dynamic part of a bicycle, not something to gamble with.

 

[veganrob]

Ambrosio wheels are built with hubs from FAC Michelin (Miche). On the other hand, their hubs may be good, but they use the Chaiwan made Zipp rims for their family of carbon wheels, those rims are very poor quality.


Which Zipp rims are you talking about? All the V3's, 1080's and discs and older carbon rims are made in Speedway. Aluminum rims were Chaiwan as you say. 101's are made by Alex. Sram wheels, old Zipp molds but made in ASia. Components, Asia.

 

[daveinzambia]

We're the same weight. Ever since Mavic started offering wheel sets they've never really been a builder for the heavyweight rider. Some get by with them just fine regardless of weight, but it's luck of the draw. Wheels are the most dynamic part of a bicycle, not something to gamble with.

yeah just not sure i can afford to buy new wheels right now. My wife already describes my bike as the 'gift that keeps on giving' due to the amount i spend on it

will see how it goes after this repair. am now just not sure if it is the wheel that is not up to it or the repair that was not up to it

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

And believe me, I hear everything that you are saying about custom wheels - save for the Crosslinks that came on my first 'Dale MTB, that's all I have ever run - and now that I've learned how to build my own wheels, it's likely all that I will ever run in the future ... So believe me, we're on completely the same page on that topic.

Sadly, the better half's reasoning comes down to aesthetics ... she likes the look of low spoke count wheels ... And that's something that no amount of appealing to all the good reasons for going custom built is ever going to change ... unless you know of some good quality 24 spoke (Campag freehub) hubs and rims???

Not many women I know choose function over fashion, that being said I built my 110lb girlfriend some radial 20h front and half radial 24h rear laced to A23's for her road rig. Not that she thinks anything less of her 36h fixie wheels, it's just that she's not opposed to practicality and function, and she's knows bikes, that's one big reason why I love her...

Custom doesn't mean 32h or 36h 3x only, custom builders like myself and Bustedknuckle build to meet the needs and requirements of the rider. 3 main factors of choosing a custom set, as you may very well know I'm sure, is rider weight, masher or spinner pedaling style, and the condition of the roads that you frequent. Bike handling skills are also a factor, but those are the main 3 I think.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

yeah just not sure i can afford to buy new wheels right now. My wife already describes my bike as the 'gift that keeps on giving' due to the amount i spend on it

will see how it goes after this repair. am now just not sure if it is the wheel that is not up to it or the repair that was not up to it

Probably a combination of both. If the repair works out good for you, ride those wheels a couple seasons, don't hit anymore potholes in the meantime, then sell them to fund a proper set that's built for you specifically.

Good luck my man!!