Cuitu negro-like climbs: Yes or no?

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CUITU NEGRU-LIKE CLIMBS: YES OR NO?

  • NO

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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Eshnar said:
I approve them as long as they're not overused. One silly steep climb in a GT is fine. Not more though.
And about time differences... I disagree, there's no proof these climbs create smaller gaps.
hrotha said:
Yes, in moderation, and preferably as intermediate climbs when possible.

I believe the kind of spectacle they bring in relies mostly on the shock value of seeing the top riders crawling up a slope. When that wears off, what you get is not much.
roundabout said:
Maybe. 2 of them in the same race? Hell no.
Agree...

Is Sierra Nevada the only climb on the mainland which is long, consistent, yet still highly difficult? It seems every climb in the Vuelta is inconsistent, switching between steep and flat sections (tending to be steeper at the top). Either that or just very weak rollers. What does it have say around say >= 15km and >=7.0% (consistently)? Or even something along the lines or 10km @ 9-10%

In any case, I much prefer Angliru's 6km of death than these Bola/Cuitu Negru types. Do not have a problem with them being in the mix though, but not every year, not in the same year and so on.
 
Even thought I had good money on de Gendt at 50/1, it was horrible watching Cataldo thinking he might fall off.

Not for me.

As has been said before, the epic climbs I remember in epic stages were not on 20%+ slopes.
 
yes but not in excess

i prefer any time to see them flying on 7-8% slopes.my favourite climbs
of course because of the more and more defensive approach of the today's riders,the organizers choose these atrocities,punta veleno and so on.at least here,there is a very big chance to see some gaps between the riders
just don't overuse them
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Agree...

Is Sierra Nevada the only climb on the mainland which is long, consistent, yet still highly difficult? It seems every climb in the Vuelta is inconsistent, switching between steep and flat sections (tending to be steeper at the top). Either that or just very weak rollers. What does it have say around say >= 15km and >=7.0% (consistently)? Or even something along the lines or 10km @ 9-10%

In any case, I much prefer Angliru's 6km of death than these Bola/Cuitu Negru types. Do not have a problem with them being in the mix though, but not every year, not in the same year and so on.
Pretty much sums it up IMO.
 
Yes, I like them well enough if there are like 9 MTFs and nothing is likely to happen before the final climb anyway. "YouTube cycling" is here to stay, fellas. ;)

IF that's the case, 2 Bola-like climbs isn't overkill to me. If there are "only" 3-4 MTFs then it should be limited to one, at most.
 

airstream

BANNED
Mar 29, 2011
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I didn't like this climb honestly. Though, from riders' words, if there's no tornante and the road is wide 10%+ sectors become double hell, not to mention about 15+. When really steep section lasts too long, it starts killing spectacle. Such climbs illustrate a feat of overcoming, but not climbing beaty. stedy 7-8% is preferable to me. So, perfect climbs are Plateau de Beille, Tourmalet, Monte Grappa, Gavia, things like these.
 
I say yes, but limit it to maybe one or two per race. Might be good to do a climb like that as the penultimate climb so that a break or gap can open (if a favorite would actually take advantage of that - something we rarely see).
If the riders don't like it, tough. Put a compact or triple on!
 
Jun 28, 2012
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I voted yes.

I'd like to see two per race, but I feel like one of them should be as a time trial rather than a road race. That being said, with both Cuitu Negru and Bola Del Mundo coming as part of joint queen stages, I'm not sure I would want to see either one of them messed with, especially as the Vuelta is quite lacking in start-to-finish tough stages.
 
Jun 4, 2011
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i don't really like this kind of climbs they are just too steep, and this is true especcialy if super steep part is at the end.
While using this kind of mountain in the middle of a mountain stage would be much funnier because it force riders to go full gas with many kms from the finish line.

For me the perfect climb is one like the Mortirolo from the Mazzo side: constant at around 12% where you can distance you're opponent just by pushing your tempo, but also more violent attacks are possible.
 
Ferminal said:
Agree...

Is Sierra Nevada the only climb on the mainland which is long, consistent, yet still highly difficult? It seems every climb in the Vuelta is inconsistent, switching between steep and flat sections (tending to be steeper at the top). Either that or just very weak rollers. What does it have say around say >= 15km and >=7.0% (consistently)? Or even something along the lines or 10km @ 9-10%

In any case, I much prefer Angliru's 6km of death than these Bola/Cuitu Negru types. Do not have a problem with them being in the mix though, but not every year, not in the same year and so on.
Of course not.

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Just to name a few. None of them, except Calar Alto, have been used in the Vuelta.
 
Feb 24, 2011
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The best advantage of very steep sections is that the aerodynamic advantage of being drifting is neglected because of the low speeds, so a rider can drop others just by being a better climber, while wheel sucking in a less steep climb is way more profitable. I think the main problem yesterday was that everybody underestimated the difficulty of the last sections (not that I blame them; they looked worse than they did in the profile), but nevertheless if anything it made the race more exciting.

About the "steepest climbs make for boring racing" thing, well, I've been never bored watching them climbing Zoncolan and, alas!, I wasn't bored yesterday.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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I think these kinds of climbs are good, but like others said we don't need these climbs strewn throughout the entire tour. I greatly enjoyed Cataldo dragging himself up the final section. Between Cataldo and De Gendt I also liked how the gradient of the final climb seemed to erase any kind of tactics a rider could use, it became who could just grind their way up the climb to the finish harder than the other.
 
Christian said:
Basically saying the steepest climbs make for boring racing.
Yet there's always the thrill of someone blowing up who knows where. And on those gradients you blow up really BAD.

Anyway, I'm not really into these kind of super-steep mountains, I always thought the best mountain stages in GTs are the ones structured like some sort of a "Liege-Bastogne-Liege", they should be long (over 200+ kms), with a HUGE amount of climbing during all day made essentially by 3rd and 2nd category climbs (more like hills than actual mountains).

You know something on the line of the 6th stage of Giro D'Italia 2012 from a race design perspective, maybe just a little bit harder (it probably isn't the best example since it was a terrible stage the way the peloton rode it...).
 
Pippo_San said:
Yet there's always the thrill of someone blowing up who knows where. And on those gradients you blow up really BAD.

Anyway, I'm not really into these kind of super-steep mountains, I always thought the best mountain stages in GTs are the ones structured like some sort of a "Liege-Bastogne-Liege", they should be long (over 200+ kms), with a HUGE amount of climbing during all day made essentially by 3rd and 2nd category climbs (more like hills than actual mountains).

You know something on the line of the 6th stage of Giro D'Italia 2012 from a race design perspective, maybe just a little bit harder (it probably isn't the best example since it was a terrible stage the way the peloton rode it...).
Agreed. Like stage 8 of this Tour de France (the stage won by Pinot), not overly hard mountains, but a lot of them. And in my opinion, despite the Sky domination, the most interesting stage of the Tour. It's often those stages that provide something unexpected.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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I really like the super steep climbs. Agree with others that say too many and/or too often is not a good thing, but they should still be part of the GT spectacle.

However, it must be said that the reason the climb yesterday was good was because of the solitary struggles of Cataldo and de Gendt against the mountain in a battle of survival, but more importantly because Contador was there.

Without Contador everyone slugs along to the finish as best they can, and only Quintana pulling Valverde provides hope for much excitement. With Contador desperate for a few seconds and Purito in fantastic shape and defending on terrain he is best at, we get a great last climb.
 
Cookster15 said:
Agreed. The biggest problem with the Tour is it has no super super hard climbs like the Cuitu Negro, Zoncolan, Angliru or Mortirolo. The slow speeds and suffering of the riders on such climbs really makes it obvious to any non cyclist watching on TV just how brutal this sport can be.
I'm sure the Tour organizers can find such a climb in either the Pyrenees or Alps ? I'm surprised they haven't already. Or maybe they don't care because its the tour, and they don't have to create a spectacle as its long established as the biggest ? but certainly not the best imho.
 
In moderation this can really add to the spectacle. In the 2012 Vuelta it is perhaps overkill.

Descender already posted the list of climbs I would have put up in reference to the long and hard but not super-irregular Spanish climbs. To that list of greats you can also add Velefique, Rasos de Peguera, La Covatilla (which they have used a fair amount, most recently last year when Chris Froome first had his coming-out party), Peñas Blancas-Pico de los Reales (especially from the Estepona side - 22km at 6,6%, but never over 14 and never over 10 in the second half), La Ragua (especially from the south, 25km @ 6%), Cabra Montés (17km @ 5,3%, can be used as a pass), Collado Bermejo, Estación de Esquí Vallter2000, Port-Ainé (from the abandoned Volta a Catalunya stage this year), Ibañeta from the French side (though you can then put on the typical Vuelta wall with the last 5km up to Ortzanzurieta), the Spanish sides of Larrau and Pierre St-Martin, Lunada from the Cantabrian side... there's lots, you just need to know where to look.
 
Ferminal said:
Agree...

Is Sierra Nevada the only climb on the mainland which is long, consistent, yet still highly difficult? It seems every climb in the Vuelta is inconsistent, switching between steep and flat sections (tending to be steeper at the top). Either that or just very weak rollers. What does it have say around say >= 15km and >=7.0% (consistently)? Or even something along the lines or 10km @ 9-10%

In any case, I much prefer Angliru's 6km of death than these Bola/Cuitu Negru types. Do not have a problem with them being in the mix though, but not every year, not in the same year and so on.
masking_agent said:
I'm sure the Tour organizers can find such a climb in either the Pyrenees or Alps ? I'm surprised they haven't already. Or maybe they don't care because its the tour, and they don't have to create a spectacle as its long established as the biggest ? but certainly not the best imho.
L'Aberouat, Mont du Chat, Val Pelouse, plenty of options. If it's ever usable again, there's Puy de Dome of course. But they could have some destructive stages in the French Basque territory around St Jean Pied-de-Port. That should be the French equivalent of Cortina d'Ampezzo, with all the steep killer climbs around it.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Spain is the second European country with more mountains. We have many kind of climbs (France and Italy too).
 

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