Cycling Nationalism (on CN forum)

[Parrot23]

Anyone notice this? German fans seem to defend German/Austrian riders at all cost; Australians defend Australians; and Dutch defend Dutch, etc. One's fellow nationals, it seems, can do no wrong. Or enthusiasm is response to performances of one's fellow countrymen mainly.

I thought cycling was a thoroughly internationalized sport now. Why do the merits/demerits of riders often depend on the nationality of the poster(s)?

Is it just a case of familiarity, atavist knee-jerkism, genuine enthusiam, blinkered narrowness, etc.?

Is this enlightened/rational--or not?

 

[BroDeal]

I attribute it to a belief that one's own countrymen are morally superior to people in the rest of the world. You would think that WWII would have buried such supidity, but it seems to have reenforced it in some countries.

EDIT: I guess I should add that the above comment was mainly directed toward the tendency of people to think that their countrymen are those who do not dope--or at least doping less than the other riders. Heck, maybe I should just delete the above altogether.

As far as following riders, it is easier to follow those that speak a common language because it is easier to get news about them. How much news in English do we get about Menchov compared to Evans?

 

[elapid]

Patriotism. I am Australian and proud of it. I support Australian riders and am proud of their achievements. I will defend the likes of Cadel when I think he is being unfairly treated or misquoted. But I also readily admit that he says and occasionally does some stupid things. I will not defend an Australian cyclist if they have doped.

 

[lean mean &green]

Not so sure. A lot of the LA haters in here are located in US.

Just read a German poster trashing the performance of Germans in the tour.

Nationalism isn't nearly as big a nuisance as a lack of objectivity.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It's not as black and white as you see it Parrot.
For instance, in Belgium, a lot of people hate Tom Boonen and criticise him for every far he lets.
In Holland, even before he got caught on dynepo, most people disliked Thomas Dekker because he is the exact opposite of the average Dutchman. More of a showman, italian style, then a typical 'act normal' dutch guy (like Gesink, the national hero )
I'm sure it's the same in America where a lot of people dislike Armstrong. Or Australia where there is bound to be a few that dislike Evans for being a weird guy sometimes... or France were people still dislike Moreau and Virenque for being dopers...

 

[BroDeal]

Not so sure. A lot of the LA haters in here are located in US.

Funny enough, most of the Armstrong chamois sniffers are in the U.S.

 

[Parrot23]

Patriotism. I am Australian and proud of it. I support Australian riders and am proud of their achievements. I will defend the likes of Cadel when I think he is being unfairly treated or misquoted. But I also readily admit that he says and occasionally does some stupid things. I will not defend an Australian cyclist if they have doped.

You support a range of riders, not just Aussies. I could never tell whether you were Australian by your comments on riders or not.

It's the reflexive support or enthusiasm by nationality, with no questions asked, that I wonder about.

I'd better close my beak now, and just listen.

 

[dgodave]

I thought cycling was a thoroughly internationalized sport now. Why do the merits/demerits of riders often depend on the nationality of the poster(s)?

Sports affiliations are typically geographical. You like the teams from the town you grew up in, or moved to. You like your own country in the Olympics.
.
Why should we expect cycling to be different?
.

 

[Cobber]

Patriotism. I am Australian and proud of it. I support Australian riders and am proud of their achievements. I will defend the likes of Cadel when I think he is being unfairly treated or misquoted. But I also readily admit that he says and occasionally does some stupid things. I will not defend an Australian cyclist if they have doped.

+1..... patriotism...... it shouldn't be that surprising should it? Most people are naturally going to feel some affinity to their compatriots, and this is why I was defending Haussler in todays stage thread.

I am Australian and live in the US now (Atlanta). I don't only support Aussie riders however. I really liked Ullrich and Tyler Hamilton when they were riding (and before their fall from grace) and I absolutely loved Jalabert!

Edit: I also hate everyone from New Zealand and South Africa!

 

[Parrot23]

In Holland, even before he got caught on dynepo, most people disliked Thomas Dekker because he is the exact opposite of the average Dutchman. More of a showman, italian style, then a typical 'act normal' dutch guy (like Gesink, the national hero )

That's interesting. So it goes deeper than nationality, but maybe to personality too.

I wouldn't imagine Italians would be thrilled by a rider who is bookish, reserved or retiring, etc. (Say a Zabriskie or Wiggins as an Italian).

And Cav takes a lot of flak in the U.K. press for being maybe cheeky and full of himself. (Surprising then he thrives on a German/"disciplined" team, etc.; but maybe it's a mix of opposites there, or best of both worlds for him).

So people have to fit with a nation's (or area, or whatever) view of a "good local guy" is maybe, otherwise he's not one of "us", etc. So a foreigner with the personality of the locals would be adopted as a good guy. So then we have "national personalities" maybe (with the stress on the personality).

 

[elapid]

You support a range of riders, not just Aussies. I could never tell whether you were Australian by your comments on riders or not.

Yes - definitely true. I enjoy the sport and support riders of all nationalities. O'Grady and McEwen are my favourite Aussie riders, but overall favourites are Cancellara and Boonen.

 

[Parrot23]

Edit: I also hate everyone from New Zealand and South Africa!

LOL, black sheep?!

 

[Cobber]

LOL, black sheep?!

Has more to do with a lifetime of watching cricket and rugby.

 

[elapid]

Edit: I also hate everyone from New Zealand and South Africa!

Ha. +1. Good naturedly of course, and only in rugby (perhaps cricket with South Africa).

 

[dgodave]

I typically support USA riders... and locals from my hometown, whom I shall not mention just now.
.
But I also support French cyclists, partly out of pity, and partly because I really liked France when I bike toured there.
.

 

[Doug Laipple]

I'm a Yank, and I don't like LA.

(That applies to Los Angeles or Lower Alabama.)

 

[Parrot23]

Has more to do with a lifetime of watching cricket and rugby.

Okay. Makes sense.

All Blacks? (Ha, ha, ha, I'll be kicked off the board as managers will be thinking I'm making racist allusions).

 

[Cobber]

Ha. +1. Good naturedly of course, and only in rugby (perhaps cricket with South Africa).

Yeah Though I feel more sorry for NZ with respect to cricket since they were always so bad..... rugby is another subject however....

 

[Irish2009]

I love it when I see Irish riders do well, I enjoy a sporting performance more when an Irish person is involved . The thing I hate most in sport is an Irish cheat....I am a nationalist and proud of it.

 

[elapid]

Yeah Though I feel more sorry for NZ with respect to cricket since they were always so bad..... rugby is another subject however....

Don't feel too sorry. They usually kick our a-s-s-e-s so badly in rugby that it makes up for their cricket team!

 

[Parrot23]

The thing I hate most in sport is an Irish cheat....I am a nationalist and proud of it.

Walsh exposing that Irish Olympic swimmer must have been tough then, before he moved onto you know who....

Size of country might have something to do with it. Island nation=more nationalism makes sense. Smaller countries like Netherlands and Belgium makes sense.

 

[titan_90]

Anyone notice this? German fans seem to defend German/Austrian riders at all cost; Australians defend Australians; and Dutch defend Dutch, etc. One's fellow nationals, it seems, can do no wrong. Or enthusiasm is response to performances of one's fellow countrymen mainly.

I thought cycling was a thoroughly internationalized sport now. Why do the merits/demerits of riders often depend on the nationality of the poster(s)?

Is it just a case of familiarity, atavist knee-jerkism, genuine enthusiam, blinkered narrowness, etc.?

Is this enlightened/rational--or not?

For me one of the main attractions to the sport is that it is international. I don't buy into petty nationalism and I couldn't careless where a rider is from. I support riders based on their talent and personality not nationality.

 

[issoisso]

Yes, it's around but it doesn't bother me that much.

It bothers me a heck of a lot more when certain forum members (there are a few of them) with no grasp of reality say that people from country X hate people from country Y, which, in cycling, you can substitute X and Y for any two countries that have pro riders and whichever way you slice it, it will always be a moronic statement made by either very ill-informed or very biased people.

Generally this statement will be made by someone from country Y who feels they need to justify said country's riders not dominating cycling by saying it's all someone else's fault.



...............................that and native english speakers with tremendously awful english grammar/spelling

 

[jaylew]

It's the reflexive support or enthusiasm by nationality, with no questions asked, that I wonder about.

It's always kinda bothered me as well but it's normal, I guess. It does make sense to a degree even without the patriotism angle. Through the media you learn the most about athletes from your own country so you're more likely to become attached to them.

As for me, if I'm watching a sport and I'm not familiar with the athletes I don't automatically root for the American even if it is in the Olympics. I'm sure I'm in the minority, though.

 

[jaylew]

For me one of the main attractions to the sport is that it is international. I don't buy into petty nationalism and I couldn't careless where a rider is from. I support riders based on their talent and personality not nationality.

I agree completely.