Cycling Nationalism (on CN forum)

[usedtobefast]

Well, with the way the US is heading, it seems pretty clear that Sarah Palin will be president in 3.5 years. In that instance, I really will leave this country. Any suggestions on where to move? I need to get working on the language since I only speak English and enough Spanish to get water and find a book store.

Please note, I understand that your country may not be keen to allow a snarky American with tattoos and a bad attitude in, but I do cook a mean red sauce...

ok dude say it with me, "no sarah palin" repeat as many times as
necessary. that cannot be allowed to happen. otherwise i'm out too.

 

[titan_90]

ok dude say it with me, "no sarah palin" repeat as many times as
necessary. that cannot be allowed to happen. otherwise i'm out too.

+100000000000000000000

I will be joining you also, she is a total nut job. Shows how stupid most Americans really are that they think she is qualified to run a state let alone an entire country. Evangelicals scare the SH*T out of me.

 

[No_Balls]

It is not always about once nationality but on a broader sense a unifikation with a rider who you can relate to in a cultural way. For an example british fans can also like australian riders, american riders ("english speaking") as well as dutch fans can also like german riders, swiss riders, belgian riders et al. And of course vice versa.

There is an cultural aspect of it. You hardly see many of these nationalities supporting italian or spanish riders because they seems more "foreign" to this fans in a cultural sense of way. You´ll notice this once the doping debate occurs.

 

[Cerberus]

Patriotism is a natural part of sport and I think that's one of the main reasons nations support their athletes so much. Beating a fellow nation in sports not only raises you "above" them it also strenghtens and unites your own people. People don't see sports like that but when you analyze world cup matches or the likes you can clearly see patriotism there. Just look at all the flags when a country meets another in football.

So that's why it's natural that below the surface most of the cycling fans here are patriotic too. Maybe most of us don't realize it when we talk about race winners (or do you focus on the fact that a spanish rider won the Tour this year and a russian won the Giro?) but when it comes to doping the nationalism and patriotism rears its head. Maybe that's because doping is mainly about believing things without water-proof evidence - a little bit like believing your country is better than your neighboring country.

I actually recognize that in myself. I can feel myself wanting to believe that Danish riders and riders riding for Team Saxo Bank are cleaner than others. I'm to introspective to carry this to extremes, but nonetheless I'm more reluctant to believe that fx. the Schleck brother use doping than that other in the top of the GC do.

 

[Kingsley A]

ok dude say it with me, "no sarah palin" repeat as many times as
necessary. that cannot be allowed to happen. otherwise i'm out too.

LOL!

Eight years of Palin, immediately followed by Texas Governor Armstrong and all of the Anglophone parts of The Commonwealth will be swamped by US cycling fans demanding asylum!

But back to the point of this thread; a level of tribalism is natural in the human psyche. It manifests in all sports and can make for some hugely entertaining banter but it can sometimes be taken too far (football hooliganism in Europe and cricket riots in the Sub-Continent spring to mind).

I would dearly love to see a Brit winning a GT in the next few years but do I think it's likely? No (well maybe if Wiggo forsakes the Tour for the Vuelta but even then it's a long shot). This doesn't however stop me appreciating the talent from other countries, and as someone said there are definite cultural preferences - On a general level my preference will always be to see the winner of whatever be English, followed by elsewhere in the UK, followed by the Anglophone Commonwealth, then North-Western Europe, then the rest of Europe.

Does this mean I won't be behind riders from places low on this list, or outside it? Of course not! I was a huge fan of Indurain and loved Abdoujaparov. It was great seeing Japanese riders finish the Tour for the first time this year and how can anyone not be routing for the Rwandan riding his first professional race in Ireland?

My point is that in sport, patriotism/nationalism is mostly a good thing and only rarely goes over the tipping point into animosity. Banter and ribbing are all good if done and taken in the right spirit.

 

[analo69]

Well, with the way the US is heading, it seems pretty clear that Sarah Palin will be president in 3.5 years. In that instance, I really will leave this country. Any suggestions on where to move? I need to get working on the language since I only speak English and enough Spanish to get water and find a book store.

Please note, I understand that your country may not be keen to allow a snarky American with tattoos and a bad attitude in, but I do cook a mean red sauce...

In Denmark you are welcome. The only problem is that you have to make more than 5000 dollars a month in order to get a work permit. But if you come you will experience the most equal society on earth with free healthcare, education, childcare and a lot more. But there is a cost. 50% of your earnings in taxes and a long dark, wet winter.

The language is no problem. Almost everybody speaks English and there is free Danish courses.

 

[phillop]

Kind of pity the kiwis at rugby - bottlers eternally

say what you want but we do pretty damn well at most sports.
considering out whole country could easily fit into sydney alone and all.
food for thought aussies?

 

[Spaniard]

It is not always about once nationality but on a broader sense a unifikation with a rider who you can relate to in a cultural way. For an example british fans can also like australian riders, american riders ("english speaking") as well as dutch fans can also like german riders, swiss riders, belgian riders et al. And of course vice versa.

There is an cultural aspect of it. You hardly see many of these nationalities supporting italian or spanish riders because they seems more "foreign" to this fans in a cultural sense of way. You´ll notice this once the doping debate occurs.

That's pretty obvious I prefer supporting an Italian , Portuguese since they are more close to us (in culture terms). But as you can see we never support a French rider despite they are our neighbours, we "hate" them and hey "hate" us it's that simple.

 

[Christian]

I think it's difficult to get as excited for a rider from a different nationality than from your own. For me as a Luxembourgian, I cheered for riders of other nationalities for a long time, but now with the Schlecks, Kirchen, Didier and Gastauer it's just different. You get more excited when it's your countrymen battling for Tour victory than other riders. That doesn't mean I dislike every other rider, I cheer for many of them, just not as intensely.

As for defending everything they do ... I believe Fränk tried to dope, but was smart enough to pull out before any real harm was done ... saying, he paid the money but never actually doped. I can definitely understand if people think this is rubbish, but I guess it's true that you're easier on your countymen than others. I think you have to give the Luxembourg Anti-Doping Agency, as well as Saxo Bank credit though for actually doing an investigation and suspending him, not as for example Spain and Caisse d'Epargne did with Alejandro Valverde.

 

[flyor64]

Proximityism? Is that a word?

I'm certainly proud when I see the US win something or go against the odds (the Confed Cup this summer for example)...so there is nationalistic pride for sure. And I can also see the tendency to lean towards common-language riders and teams.

But I think proximity can play a part too. I find myself rooting for EbH, Thor, Kurt Asle Arvesen more than most any other cyclists these days through no more connection than I live in Norway and have grown very fond of it. And I don't think learning the language had much to do with it. I think I was screaming as loud as the Norwegian Eurosport commentators were last year when Arvesen won stage 11 in the TdF...my heartrate was through the roof, and I couldn't understand a word of what they were saying at the time.

 

[No_Balls]

I think it's difficult to get as excited for a rider from a different nationality than from your own. For me as a Luxembourgian, I cheered for riders of other nationalities for a long time, but now with the Schlecks, Kirchen, Didier and Gastauer it's just different. You get more excited when it's your countrymen battling for Tour victory than other riders. That doesn't mean I dislike every other rider, I cheer for many of them, just not as intensely.

As for defending everything they do ... I believe Fränk tried to dope, but was smart enough to pull out before any real harm was done ... saying, he paid the money but never actually doped. I can definitely understand if people think this is rubbish, but I guess it's true that you're easier on your countymen than others. I think you have to give the Luxembourg Anti-Doping Agency, as well as Saxo Bank credit though for actually doing an investigation and suspending him, not as for example Spain and Caisse d'Epargne did with Alejandro Valverde.

Are you stating that Luxembourg has a greater morale then Spain in this questions?

 

[titan_90]

I think it's difficult to get as excited for a rider from a different nationality than from your own. For me as a Luxembourgian, I cheered for riders of other nationalities for a long time, but now with the Schlecks, Kirchen, Didier and Gastauer it's just different. You get more excited when it's your countrymen battling for Tour victory than other riders. That doesn't mean I dislike every other rider, I cheer for many of them, just not as intensely.

As for defending everything they do ... I believe Fränk tried to dope, but was smart enough to pull out before any real harm was done ... saying, he paid the money but never actually doped. I can definitely understand if people think this is rubbish, but I guess it's true that you're easier on your countymen than others. I think you have to give the Luxembourg Anti-Doping Agency, as well as Saxo Bank credit though for actually doing an investigation and suspending him, not as for example Spain and Caisse d'Epargne did with Alejandro Valverde.

I disagree with you at least speaking for myself. I am from the US and I am not a fan of any US riders. My favourite riders tend to be Spanish or Italian. Although I will root for anyone that is willing to attack and risk everything for the win no matter what country they are from even the US.

 

[Parrot23]

My two cents: I tend to prefer it when local/home country riders get beaten by foreigners at their home races.

Would like to see a non-Spaniard kick the Spanish riders asses at the Vuelta, a Spaniard kick the Germans' asses at the Tour of Germany, an Italian kick the Swiss asses at the Tour of Switzerland (esp. Cancellara's), a German or Russian kick the Italians' asses at the Giro, and Levi (or any other American) ko'ed at the Tour of California. Double points for anyone doing this on the last day. Should have a new Giro-like category for this: the "trophio upsetto" (awarded in falsetto by a decidely non-crowing announcer).

Nothing worse to me (only, LOL) than seeing a Valverde etc. win a Vuelta, or a Jens Voigt etc. win the Tour of Germany (you can just see the bands playing). Just seems a rather meaningless or even silly exercise in local pride. What on earth does this mean: "Look, mom, I'm winning. Just look at me ride my bike"? But that's just me, LOL.

Maybe am reacting to other pro sports (football/hockey). In my city, when a foreign player becomes unhappy with his local team and wants a transfer, he gets raked over the coals by the locals (really extreme, one-sided coverage, with locals drawing up the wagons, and the unhappy outsider now suddenly persona non grata, to be expelled at all costs like a bacillus).

It's always good to make the locals eat crow--but good for one of them to win elsewhere. That means much more.

Also good when an obscure local (not one of the stars) can win on home turf, I think. Maybe their only chance every to get into the limelight: think one sees this at the Tour de France. I can cheer for that.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll tell you what, after seeing the movie "Kenny," I have to say that you Aussies are comic geniuses. Sincerely.

 

[usedtobefast]

I'll tell you what, after seeing the movie "Kenny," I have to say that you Aussies are comic geniuses. Sincerely.

a lot of great musicians as well. known and unknown.