Cycling out BP, Adams,... as Sudamerica, etc...

[Taxus4a]

There is some cycling where the change is not done.
It is the cycling out of Biopasport, Adams... a real control.

We see now this in Vuelta al Táchira. Everybody in cycling know how is doping still there or in other races as Colombia, Costa Rica, etc...

Riders in BP are in disadvantage.

I wouldn assure Rujano or Monsalve are totally clean in this race (I dont think UCi is going to go seriusly there), but they are not as in previous years, of course, and they are probably quite clean.
Androni, Rujano, or netherlands another years, are in clear dissadvantage. The same for Cuban riders for several reasons.

They can win a flat ITT for his superior quality for flat routes and best technic, but when the route has a minimun slope and when endurance is important, no way.

If you see Tomas Gil, you see the difference, he is now in Androni and he is in a very good shape an motivation, but he is far from his performance two years ago,

A yellow fluo told the other day to an spanish rider that they went slower in Trentino.

When riders as Gato Medina, positive (it is difficult be positive there, but not imposible) go to Worlds, they dont repeat the same performance than in Tachira.. yesterday, really hard stage at 37 km/h, in altitude and with hot...with big differences.

I know, becouse people that know well the race, venezolan people, told me, teams as Loteria or Kino are everybody at 54, 55,... hematocrit. People sell EPO or other not allowed products even in the middle of the hotels. It is like that.

People as Jackson Rodriguez, Ochoas, etc,... well, in Europe are good riders, but not the same incredible performance that they made there similar to Camargo or Briceño these days...

Now it looks than there are some really talented riders in Venezuela, in Androni. I think so, I hope so.

In Colombia is the same situation, but there are really talented riders, but Colombia have more altitude, in venezuela just Tachira dn Merida live in altitude, but most of the important citys are below 1000 metres, in Colombia, is ussual to live above 2000 metros.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

the dopign problems in tachira aren't quite bad. since new venezuelan president. they are very anti doping. also someone like dal col dominating the itt tells a lot. yonatan monsalve isn't focussed on here. rujano is completely out of form, an italian I never heard of di remigio is climbing rather well here.

about tomas gil. he was never a strong climber in venezuela and he has always been bad in long climbs. he dropped weight and improved from track. still he was never able to follow real climbers. he was 2nd in tachira that had weak field(yonatan monsalve and ronald gomez rounded the podium) and weak course. also he's 37 almost now. so he is in decline.

also cuba is sending their b squad or even c squad, someone like alcolea a gew years ago finished top 5 in vuelta venezuela and serpa while at androni won vuelta venezuela and banfoandes

colombia is completely different and is far worse. especially depending on team. still what happened last year in gw I hope will have some chance. worst of all is raul mesa and he has a lot of power

 

[Taxus4a]

the dopign problems in tachira aren't quite bad. since new venezuelan president. they are very anti doping. also someone like dal col dominating the itt tells a lot. yonatan monsalve isn't focussed on here. rujano is completely out of form, an italian I never heard of di remigio is climbing rather well here.

about tomas gil. he was never a strong climber in venezuela and he has always been bad in long climbs. he dropped weight and improved from track. still he was never able to follow real climbers. he was 2nd in tachira that had weak field(yonatan monsalve and ronald gomez rounded the podium) and weak course. also he's 37 almost now. so he is in decline.

also cuba is sending their b squad or even c squad, someone like alcolea a gew years ago finished top 5 in vuelta venezuela and serpa while at androni won vuelta venezuela and banfoandes

colombia is completely different and is far worse. especially depending on team. still what happened last year in gw I hope will have some chance. worst of all is raul mesa and he has a lot of power

I am bolivarian, and I dont doubt about the antidoping policy of the goberment.. but it is not a questioon of that, the culture is strongly pro doping among the riders and the antidoping policy is not efficient, but it is not a thing of Venezuela, is the same in other countries.

You can think what you want, but thing nowadays are still like that, I hope things change in the future, antidoping is expensive.

 

[Taxus4a]

the dopign problems in tachira aren't quite bad. since new venezuelan president. they are very anti doping. also someone like dal col dominating the itt tells a lot. yonatan monsalve isn't focussed on here. rujano is completely out of form, an italian I never heard of di remigio is climbing rather well here.

about tomas gil. he was never a strong climber in venezuela and he has always been bad in long climbs. he dropped weight and improved from track. still he was never able to follow real climbers. he was 2nd in tachira that had weak field(yonatan monsalve and ronald gomez rounded the podium) and weak course. also he's 37 almost now. so he is in decline.

also cuba is sending their b squad or even c squad, someone like alcolea a gew years ago finished top 5 in vuelta venezuela and serpa while at androni won vuelta venezuela and banfoandes

colombia is completely different and is far worse. especially depending on team. still what happened last year in gw I hope will have some chance. worst of all is raul mesa and he has a lot of power

Well man, he is not in decline, he is without full gas. He has been 11 in tachira with the same riders that today, close to Camargo or Briceño, now he is about 50, losing 30 minutes some days, and it is for that.

 

[Ripper]

... antidoping policy of the goberment ...

This is gold

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I am bolivarian, and I dont doubt about the antidoping policy of the goberment.. but it is not a questioon of that, the culture is strongly pro doping among the riders and the antidoping policy is not efficient, but it is not a thing of Venezuela, is the same in other countries.

You can think what you want, but thing nowadays are still like that, I hope things change in the future, antidoping is expensive.

no. in colombia for instance the federation cover up all doping cases. this is very different from venezuela, where the federation is very anti doping since new director came. he even destroyed vuelta venezuela by making it only short flat sprint stages because riders would less dope, but then ubeto won

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well man, he is not in decline, he is without full gas. He has been 11 in tachira with the same riders that today, close to Camargo or Briceño, now he is about 50, losing 30 minutes some days, and it is for that.

first of all gil is preparing for giro, not tachira(same with monsalve) and no, he was never close to climbing in form camargo or briceno ever. it's just that camargo and briceno were very unregular, camargo was helped a lot by going to tachira where they have at leats little better guidance.

 

[Ferminal]

There is some cycling where the change is not done.
It is the cycling out of Biopasport, Adams... a real control.

So... no different to U23s.

 

[Taxus4a]

So... no different to U23s.

Not difference. But in Europe the question is that culture is changing, and that afect everybody, but of course if you go to Vuelta a Madrid, you find people wining Quintana or Landa. the lees doping is in world Tour, but always will be some people, always a Santambroglio, Di Luca, etc...

In Japan the culture is antidoping, and they are not bad paid, but the culture is important... anyway, in Europe the culture has changed, but not radicaly, without Biopassport and Adams the problem would come back.

 

[Ferminal]

Any source to suggest that "the culture has changed" or is it inside knowledge?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Any source to suggest that "the culture has changed" or is it inside knowledge?

Plenty of sources, across a broad range of stake holders:

Jonathon Vaughters
Chris Froome
Phil Liggett
Taxus4a

 

[sittingbison]

Plenty of sources, across a broad range of stake holders:

Jonathon Vaughters
Chris Froome
Phil Liggett
Taxus4a

sockpuppets?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Not difference. But in Europe the question is that culture is changing, and that afect everybody, but of course if you go to Vuelta a Madrid, you find people wining Quintana or Landa. the lees doping is in world Tour, but always will be some people, always a Santambroglio, Di Luca, etc...

In Japan the culture is antidoping, and they are not bad paid, but the culture is important... anyway, in Europe the culture has changed, but not radicaly, without Biopassport and Adams the problem would come back.

the culture has definitely changed in europe. in colombia and costa rica it's worst although in costa rica they are now introducuing bio passport for teams as well. still riders like amador and quintana can set the good example for youth. there is only one way of entering european wt and that is clean

 

[Taxus4a]

the culture has definitely changed in europe. in colombia and costa rica it's worst although in costa rica they are now introducuing bio passport for teams as well. still riders like amador and quintana can set the good example for youth. there is only one way of entering european wt and that is clean

I hope so. I will tell you when things become like that. Something maybe has started.

 

[Taxus4a]

It is not just a question of sources, that there are a lot, by the way, but the facts:

Today we have a revolution in cycling preparation, it has improved everything: training, more money for altitude training, material, etc...and there are cyclist all over the world, wich increase the quantity of riders to chose, and for that must improve the quality of the peloton.

With that we must expect better performances today, but the fact is that the performance considering all the aspect is not better, is worse:

http://climbing-records.blogspot.ro/2013/07/five-fresh-names-in-all-time-top-100.html

Last Tour it wants especially hard, organizers tell always nowadays about humanizy cycling... so permormance should increase with the same medical help.

That is not a proof, of course, but you cant tell me that today they must dope becouse performance, if you do a good and complete analisys.

 

[the sceptic]

doping only at conti level then? makes sense

 

[Taxus4a]

doping only at conti level then? makes sense

Not everybody at Conti level, but they are out of control...

In pro will be always someone, I cant understand yellow fluo in the Giro this year, that is not a good message, although I know most of the riders are clean.

I am not sure if there are some teams that are trying to go to the samll limit that cycling sytem allowed today.

But anyway, teams with more money has adventage in doping and without doping.

And of course, for people, will take time believe, with all that has happened in cycling till today and with a corrupt UCI, etc...and with almost the same people still.

But it is not a question of people, Maybe Monsalve was doped in táchira, I am dont know, but for sure less than previous years in Táchira. The same man will be clean at the Giro.

In Spain, we have doping in the cyclitourist events, important doping sometimes.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

doping only at conti level then? makes sense

not all and if they are it's usually very obvious. just look at sayar with konyu torku. also some cts are part of bio passport like 4-72, coldeportes claro, efapel and some others I know. but it costs a loot of money for a ct team

 

[Ferminal]

Today we have a revolution in cycling preparation, it has improved everything: training, more money for altitude training, material

Amongst Italian amateurs..?