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Cycling R.I.P 1995-2010

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peterst6906

Jan 30, 2011
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Dear Wiggo said:
You know Sky were building the team around Cavendish before Wiggo came 4th at TdF in 2009 yeah?
Click to expand...

Wasn't Sky's aim 'to win the TdF within 5 years'?

Why would they be building around a sprinter (in the first year of their existence) in order to achieve their goal of a TdF victory? That doesn't make much sense, but I haven't really followed their goals that closely (other than their well published one above).
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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peterst6906 said:
Wasn't Sky's aim 'to win the TdF within 5 years'?

Why would they be building around a sprinter (in the first year of their existence) in order to achieve their goal of a TdF victory? That doesn't make much sense, but I haven't really followed their goals that closely (other than their well published one above).
Click to expand...
And originally they thought it would be Kennaugh.
 
Avoriaz

Avoriaz

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peterst6906 said:
Wasn't Sky's aim 'to win the TdF within 5 years'?

Why would they be building around a sprinter (in the first year of their existence) in order to achieve their goal of a TdF victory? That doesn't make much sense, but I haven't really followed their goals that closely (other than their well published one above).
Click to expand...

I suspect to keep the wins ticking over while they developed a young British rider into the GT contender. Wiggins 4th (3rd) in 2009 effectively hit the Fast Forward button on that
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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JimmyFingers said:
Except Wiggins already had a contract with Garmin, and Vaughters wanted to keep him, so the argument falls down there.

But no doubt we'll have another exhaustive discussion of Wiggins in yet another thread.
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cofidis
fdj
credit agricole

/fail
 
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Wallace and Gromit

Jul 17, 2012
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blackcat said:
and Wiggins would never have got contracts after his first 8 years in the pro peloton starting with linda mac, had he not been a brit.

I bet if he was a kiwi or a canuck, he would have been turfed like Robert Bartko

ie. quickly
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How is this relevant? Life isn't necessarily fair. Wiggins got the contracts, did what he did in the 2009 Tour and the rest is history.
 
Bag of Guts

Bag of Guts

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peterst6906 said:
That's what I thought. Don't remember Cavendish being part of their core approach and thought he was more a signing of opportunity at the collapse of HTC.
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This piece provides a pretty good chronology of the Cavendish/Sky saga prior to the 2012 season. It's also informative with regards to Sky's priorities prior to their debut season.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ehind-skys-first-attempt-to-attract-cavendish

Brailsford and Sutton both knew – despite their later assertions to the contrary – that the partnership with Sky was a forerunner to a professional team. Wiggins knew. And Cavendish knew. All were clear, too, that Cavendish would be the leader, the talisman.
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This was all, of course, before Wiggins decided it was time to lay off the booze and see about winning himself that French race everyone seems to get so excited about.
 
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peterst6906

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The Hitch

The Hitch

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Whatever the methodology behind it, the years are clearly questionable since pre 1995 indurain and others were winning doped to the max, and since 2010, even those of you who believe that since riders from your countries are winning, the sport must be clean, see contadors vuelta and.vinos rr as dirty victories.
 
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Aleajactaest

May 12, 2011
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peterst6906 said:
Why only the period 1995 - 2010?

If there is a desire to wipe that era from history (with Sastre as an exception), shouldn't the end date still be open?

Maybe it should be 1995 - ?
Click to expand...

But they all say that they stopped in 2006.... ;-)
 
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JimmyFingers

Jul 17, 2012
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The Hitch said:
Whatever the methodology behind it, the years are clearly questionable since pre 1995 indurain and others were winning doped to the max, and since 2010, even those of you who believe that since riders from your countries are winning, the sport must be clean, see contadors vuelta and.vinos rr as dirty victories.
Click to expand...

Small point of order: Contador and Vino have both been censured for doping offences. Clearly they would be of greater suspicion than a rider with nothing, not every a tap on the shoulder, against their record. Yes fans are going to be partisan and want to believe their rider is dirty, and on the flip side more likely to believe those who ride against their favourite rider to be dirty, but it doesn't automatically mean that judgements are made on that criteria.

Just most of the time ;)
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
Small point of order: Contador and Vino have both been censured for doping offences. Clearly they would be of greater suspicion than a rider with nothing, not every a tap on the shoulder, against their record. Yes fans are going to be partisan and want to believe their rider is dirty, and on the flip side more likely to believe those who ride against their favourite rider to be dirty, but it doesn't automatically mean that judgements are made on that criteria.

Just most of the time ;)
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When did Cobo get a tap on his shoulder? A lot of people threw a lot of mud at him.

Also, 1995 as the start of the era is a bit dumb. We should use the exact day Lucho Herrera first lost time to riders with fat asses on a mountain stage.
 
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JimmyFingers

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Libertine Seguros said:
When did Cobo get a tap on his shoulder? A lot of people threw a lot of mud at him.

Also, 1995 as the start of the era is a bit dumb. We should use the exact day Lucho Herrera first lost time to riders with fat asses on a mountain stage.
Click to expand...

Point taken about Cobo, there is no formal evidence beyond wild swings in form, from donkey to racehorse to donkey again. It was embarrassing to watch him defend his Vuelta crown in 2012. But you can point at Froome and say the same thing (except he's yet to go back to donkey) and I've always said form is no evidence of doping. I know Cobo has suffered bouts of depression and finds it difficult motivating himself, perhaps we saw the real Cobo in 2011 Vuelta, maybe we saw him on the juice.
 
will10

will10

Dec 27, 2010
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peterst6906 said:
Wasn't Sky's aim 'to win the TdF within 5 years'?

Why would they be building around a sprinter (in the first year of their existence) in order to achieve their goal of a TdF victory? That doesn't make much sense, but I haven't really followed their goals that closely (other than their well published one above).
Click to expand...

Take a look at the 2010 Sky squad and tell me how many climbers you find.

blackcat said:
or C Froome
Click to expand...

Wasn't worth offering an extension.
 
Zam_Olyas

Zam_Olyas

Sep 30, 2011
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JimmyFingers said:
Point taken about Cobo, there is no formal evidence beyond wild swings in form, from donkey to racehorse to donkey again. It was embarrassing to watch him defend his Vuelta crown in 2012. But you can point at Froome and say the same thing (except he's yet to go back to donkey) and I've always said form is no evidence of doping. I know Cobo has suffered bouts of depression and finds it difficult motivating himself, perhaps we saw the real Cobo in 2011 Vuelta, maybe we saw him on the juice.
Click to expand...
Not a donkey to begin with.
 
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