D*ck Pound Article

[JMBeaushrimp]

Interesting article by Pound of WADA fame:

http://www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/doping-jeopardizes-future-of-intl-sport

Comments?

 

[TheBean]

The thought that doping is threatening international sport seems off-base.

Many spectators want to see bigger, stronger athletes performing super-human feats of strength and endurance. Many of those spectators don't give a hoot one way or the other about doping as long as the show is good.

The WWF (later WWE) is a perfect example of this. The "sport" is little more than a well-packaged circus act whose performers are so 'roided up that they look more like cartoon super-heroes than actual people. Calling pro wrestling a sport is a stretch - I agree - but the marketability of athletic entertainment reached a pinnacle (or depth depending on your point of view) with that organization.

People like to see athletes break records (i.e. the home-run race between Sosa, MacGuire, and Bonds). Record breakers fill stadiums and coffers.

The increase in revenue for cycling in the USA prior to Lance was not enough to support a single ProTour level team with any stability. After LA, there were several ProTour teams either based in the USA or with a US company as the title sponsor.

Unfortunately, the fact is that doping helps make athletes perform better. And, spectators, fans, and sponsors want to see athletes performing better. Performance pays the bills.

Ethically, I am rigorously opposed to doping. Financially, I find it difficult to imagine it ever going away.

 

[frenchfry]

The rules are clear and the measures they contain can be effectively applied, but they will only work if the people and organizations affected by them are committed to the fight against doping in sport.

This is the root of the problem.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I did not rtfa, but does he say in what way it is jeopardizing the future of international sport? Coz I am in full agreement with TheBean - and don't see how it can be true.

 

[rhubroma]

The thought that doping is threatening international sport seems off-base.

Many spectators want to see bigger, stronger athletes performing super-human feats of strength and endurance. Many of those spectators don't give a hoot one way or the other about doping as long as the show is good.

The WWF (later WWE) is a perfect example of this. The "sport" is little more than a well-packaged circus act whose performers are so 'roided up that they look more like cartoon super-heroes than actual people. Calling pro wrestling a sport is a stretch - I agree - but the marketability of athletic entertainment reached a pinnacle (or depth depending on your point of view) with that organization.

People like to see athletes break records (i.e. the home-run race between Sosa, MacGuire, and Bonds). Record breakers fill stadiums and coffers.

The increase in revenue for cycling in the USA prior to Lance was not enough to support a single ProTour level team with any stability. After LA, there were several ProTour teams either based in the USA or with a US company as the title sponsor.

Unfortunately, the fact is that doping helps make athletes perform better. And, spectators, fans, and sponsors want to see athletes performing better. Performance pays the bills.

Ethically, I am rigorously opposed to doping. Financially, I find it difficult to imagine it ever going away.

This is normally what is meant by hypocrisy, you are aware of that aren't you? And it succinctly evidences all that's ill with our hyper-performance based culture, for which winning at all costs has provided a moral apology for that Machiavellian concept of the ends justifying the means. So long as it’s economically auspicious then to hell with any semblance of coming down in support of what’s ethical versus what’s not. The great irony in what you wrote is that sport was supposed to be about instilling positive values. As with all things for which the lucrative capacity to earn rather indiscrete sums both individually and corporately signifies, however, the public example thus set exists about as far from morality as Stockholm is from Cape Town.

As far as cycling is concerned, I'm not so sure your assessment is at all valid. US cycling, for instance, may have benefited from the Pharmstrong hoax while a ingenuous public remained ignorant, though today the damage caused will in the long run perhaps far exceed previous short-term benefits. Secondly, Italian cycling under the sway of all the doping scandals recent and otherwise (from Ferrari to DiLuca) is under a protracted crisis. Which corporations are willing to invest their public image in cycling?

 

[sniper]

his most relevant comments come, i think, at the end.

Athletes and officials who cheat should be removed from the sport they have corrupted.

This system will work if stakeholders want it to work, but it can also be sabotaged by those who prefer to ignore the problems of doping in sport or those who persist in the corruption of sport.

I did not rtfa, but does he say in what way it is jeopardizing the future of international sport?

at the very end he says:

The stakes are enormous. If organized sport is unable to refind its moral compass, its future is in considerable jeopardy. Organized sport depends on support from the private sector. If the private sector loses interest in a corrupt system, it will withdraw its support, and the result will be the disappearance of international sport as we know it

 

[Bicycle]

Pound's stance on doping is admirable. But he's wrong: in some ways doping (and not getting caught) is the future of sport. Fans love seeing exceptional performances and as long as the authorities keep colluding in the sham the $$$ will keep flowing. And that's what everyone wants.

 

[sniper]

Pound's stance on doping is admirable. But he's wrong: in some ways doping (and not getting caught) is the future of sport. Fans love seeing exceptional performances and as long as the authorities keep colluding in the sham the $$$ will keep flowing. And that's what everyone wants.

agreed.
the problem will get worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better that is.

cycling is an exception of course.
the way it cleaned itself up should be an example for all sports.
edit:

 

[neineinei]

Pound's stance on doping is admirable. But he's wrong: in some ways doping (and not getting caught) is the future of sport. Fans love seeing exceptional performances and as long as the authorities keep colluding in the sham the $$$ will keep flowing. And that's what everyone wants.

This doesn't quite work for cycling, just ask Sky. The unbelieving cycling fanatics ruined Wiggins joy of winning the Tour.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Pound's stance on doping is admirable. But he's wrong: in some ways doping (and not getting caught) is the future of sport. Fans love seeing exceptional performances and as long as the authorities keep colluding in the sham the $$$ will keep flowing. And that's what everyone wants.

Thing is: exceptional performances are essentially a relative distancing from first place to last. IMO, remove dope from the peloton and the distance would remain fairly constant, just the players would change.

A TV audience can't tell how fast people are racing unless it's displayed on the screen.

Real life audiences can't either - and from all accounts half of them are drunk anyway.

 

[ebandit]

wiggo

This doesn't quite work for cycling, just ask Sky. The unbelieving cycling fanatics ruined Wiggins joy of winning the Tour.

and wiggo ruined the unbelieving cycling fanatics joy of watching the tour

it is wrong to think that sport depends upon superhuman performances

why can't close competition from non-doped athletes of near equally ability

be better?

Mark L

 

[Bicycle]

This doesn't quite work for cycling, just ask Sky. The unbelieving cycling fanatics ruined Wiggins joy of winning the Tour.

Yes it is different for cycling which is judged by different standards. But the public firmly believe Bolt, Messi, Nadal, etc. are clean because they haven't publicly failed tests.

 

[veganrob]

I don't understand some peoples argument that the fans are at fault because they want to see bigger, faster, etc. What are they doing, writing letters to the teams and promoters etc saying they gotta dope up make the athletes this way. BS. They are not at fault, they are just idiots with no life.
It is the human drama that will be the compelling part of athletic competition and when it is no longer believable then the sport will die.
Well that is how it should be and is for many of us.
Maybe there is no hope for us.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The increase in revenue for cycling in the USA prior to Lance was not enough to support a single ProTour level team with any stability. After LA, there were several ProTour teams either based in the USA or with a US company as the title sponsor.

We've got Garmin who desperately need the marketing to counter Tom-Tom in the EU.

Belkin? Again, not a great presence in the EU and apparently the whole deal was driven by their EU people.

Meanwhile, the riders left in the U.S. are making, on average, less than a barista. Yeah, thanks Thom!

 

[mewmewmew13]

We've got Garmin who desperately need the marketing to counter Tom-Tom in the EU.

Belkin? Again, not a great presence in the EU and apparently the whole deal was driven by their EU people.

Meanwhile, the riders left in the U.S. are making, on average, less than a barista. Yeah, thanks Thom!

That is, if they have a job as a cyclist…
bad times..

 

[thehog]

I don't understand some peoples argument that the fans are at fault because they want to see bigger, faster, etc. What are they doing, writing letters to the teams and promoters etc saying they gotta dope up make the athletes this way. BS. They are not at fault, they are just idiots with no life.
It is the human drama that will be the compelling part of athletic competition and when it is no longer believable then the sport will die.
Well that is how it should be and is for many of us.
Maybe there is no hope for us.

100% agree. 2008 pre-Tour was one of the cleanest years I've seen. It was also some or the best racing. Watching guys be good one day, bad the next was normal & fascinating to watch.

Now we're told consistency is the new clean which is not true in the slightest.

But right you are. No one is telling the riders that they must ride faster. I couldn't tell on TV if they were averaging 32km or 27km p/h.

 

[sniper]

I don't understand some peoples argument that the fans are at fault because they want to see bigger, faster, etc. What are they doing, writing letters to the teams and promoters etc saying they gotta dope up make the athletes this way. BS. They are not at fault, they are just idiots with no life.
It is the human drama that will be the compelling part of athletic competition and when it is no longer believable then the sport will die.
Well that is how it should be and is for many of us.
Maybe there is no hope for us.

good post.
however, not very many fans seemed to support ARD/ZDF decision to stop broadcasting the TdF after the Fuentes fiasco.
We can't ask fans to stop watching all together when another scandal hits the fan, but fans who want to see cycling learn from the past should still have supported that decision.

 

[martinvickers]

good post.
however, not very many fans seemed to support ARD/ZDF decision to stop broadcasting the TdF after the Fuentes fiasco.
We can't ask fans to stop watching all together when another scandal hits the fan, but fans who want to see cycling learn from the past should still have supported that decision.

Probably because for most fans that's the wrong solution to the right problem. Fans ae sick of doping in races; doesn't mean they want to stop the races - they want to stop the doping. Basically ditching the biggest race would have uncomfortable feelings of letting the cheating b****** win.

Indeed, it's a wider thought that the cynicism in this and other places, is a sign that ****s like Armstrong have fundamentally succeeded; they've made many followers of the sport as cynical and joyless as themselves.

 

[sniper]

Probably because for most fans that's the wrong solution to the right problem. Fans ae sick of doping in races; doesn't mean they want to stop the races - they want to stop the doping. Basically ditching the biggest race would have uncomfortable feelings of letting the cheating b****** win.

sure, i get your point.
but ZDF's message was the type of message that could really get antidoping going. Not in isolation of course, but if we'd see multiple important media outlets following ZDF's example, surely IOC/WADA/UCI would start realizing the necessity of investing in antidoping and genuine credibility through transparency.

Same with Rabobank. Their backing away from cycling means nothing in isolation. Other sponsors have simply come and filled the gap. The signal to UCI is clear: one scandal, one sponsor leaves, another sponsor steps in. Iow: doping still pays.

 

[MonkeyFace]

Many spectators want to see bigger, stronger athletes performing super-human feats of strength and endurance. Many of those spectators don't give a hoot one way or the other about doping as long as the show is good.

I disagree with that statement, completely. People are interested in seeing struggle. In boxing, Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti put on some impressive fights but neither was really on top of the heap skillwise. If the peleton is moving along at 27 mph instead of 25mph, it makes no perceivable difference to the audience. People want to see a contest. If anything, dope damages the sport. What struggle is there in watching a doped rider? Too often they finish a mountain stage and look like they just finished a Sunday joy ride.

 

[fuzzydunlop3]

I disagree with that statement, completely. People are interested in seeing struggle. In boxing, Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti put on some impressive fights but neither was really on top of the heap skillwise. If the peleton is moving along at 27 mph instead of 25mph, it makes no perceivable difference to the audience. People want to see a contest. If anything, dope damages the sport. What struggle is there in watching a doped rider? Too often they finish a mountain stage and look like they just finished a Sunday joy ride.

I agree with this. I've actually been turned off by tennis in recent years because of these super human fifth setters played by guys like Nadal and Djokovic.