Dan Martin - "Now I know you can win clean"

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

I will, however, argue over wild characterisations such as a "cesspit of PED abuse."

Lets hear your proofs.........

So now you want to play football and not footsie? Cool. Since you started with the claim that the sport's a cesspit, I'll let you start. How you're going to keep this OT and related to the Kimmage/Martin interview, I'll leave that for you to decide. I'm sure the mods will be generous in their interpretation. The floor's your's...

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

It's safe to say rider's keep their ears to the ground re. competitors based on how quickly newly found PEDs flood sporting events in general. Think EPO in the late 80's, early 90's, and BALCO's THG in the aughts. It's not really up for debate that they pay attention, though you have supposed outliers like Lemond who claims to have missed the EPO boat.

LeMond is always an outlier. Landis talked the same; saying be how the riders would openly talk about PEDs in the peloton, how many bloodbags they had left etc.

Any time you want to come back with a page reference in the USADA report for your claim about LA and Mayo, I'm here.

 

[thehog]

Re:

What do you guys honestly expected he'd say? That he was doping? I mean, seriously...

I think he said some interesting things, especially the thing about Froomey. Without saying it he is certainly implying that something fishy was going on and thats more than other cyclists.

Agree, it was fairly impressive to speak openly on that one. Not many riders have said as much in the press.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Nice projection of your own interpretation on what Matin says, but it's pure speculation, and most probably nonsense.

Martin wouldn't say so in an interview like that if he did think Valverde was still doping - so you have no idea what he really thinks or what his psychology is. Like other riders in similar interviews, he's just flat batting away the questions. And Martin has beaten plenty of known dopers throughout his career, so why would believing that Valverde is still doping suddenly make him unbeatable?

So let me get this straight: you can "project" your interpretation of what Martin says, but no one else can? Really, we all have to bow down to your "projections"? Christ on a bike...

I note with admiration Martin's "flat batting away" of questions when it came to his use of Tramadol...well played, that man. Easily a boundary.

I think that in your self-righteousness you've misunderstood, I'm not projecting any interpretation. I'm simply saying that his interview was worthless as evidence as to his views on riders doping, or to his own potential doping.

Like most cyclist interviews, it offers no real insight, because of all the smoke and mirrors around. If Martin was doping and knew half the peloton were also, he would give an interview like this. If he is clean and fully believed most of the peloton are now, he would also give an interview like this. It's just a puff piece. Poor questions by Kimmage really, he should have drilled down into more specifics re Quickstep/Garmin.

You live in a fantasy world like some in The Clinic - Kimmage drilled down as much as he could in the interview, while DM gave subtle answers which required you to read between the lines - Finally Kimmage's interviews can be ' heavy work ' because he has such a narrow focus - Kimmage is a talented wordsmith and story teller who doesn't get the best out of his craft because of his narrow focus.

Right, so project your own interpretation onto it. As I said, interviews like that are worthless as evidence either way. Martin may be telling the truth, he may be implicating others, he might not know what is going on, or he may be lying. Dopers have said similar things in the past, clean riders have said similar things in the past. The whole thing is a waste of time without concrete assertions or facts - just a fluff piece.

As much as I dislike Kimmage's narrow focus in his writings, he can never be accused of puff pieces - He does his best to elicit as much useful information as possible - You've made a strange assertion - It's like you've never read a Kimmage article.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I will, however, argue over wild characterisations such as a "cesspit of PED abuse."

Lets hear your proofs.........

So now you want to play football and not footsie? Cool. Since you started with the claim that the sport's a cesspit, I'll let you start. How you're going to keep this OT and related to the Kimmage/Martin interview, I'll leave that for you to decide. I'm sure the mods will be generous in their interpretation. The floor's your's...

ach no, respected author and word scribe after you.....knock your self out

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I will, however, argue over wild characterisations such as a "cesspit of PED abuse."

Lets hear your proofs.........

So now you want to play football and not footsie? Cool. Since you started with the claim that the sport's a cesspit, I'll let you start. How you're going to keep this OT and related to the Kimmage/Martin interview, I'll leave that for you to decide. I'm sure the mods will be generous in their interpretation. The floor's your's...

ach no, respected author and word scribe after you.....knock your self out

FMK has had a good day; Vayerism has called him out on Twitter on his “I know more than you” crapola - https://twitter.com/fmk_roi/status/897515461004464128

It would be funny if not a little tragic.

 

[King Boonen]

Right, the baiting, personal attacks and trolling stops here. Any more and bans will be issued. This will be cross posted in other threads.

 

[Benotti69]

Martins joins Saronni's and Mauro Gianetti* at UAE. A 'positive' step.

*Gianetti ran Saunier Duvall for those curious.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

Martins joins Saronni's and Mauro Gianetti* at UAE. A 'positive' step.

*Gianetti ran Saunier Duvall for those curious.

Gianetti nearly died from drug use in 1998

 

[meat puppet]

Didnt gianetti also experiment with artificial O2 carriers such as perfluorocarbons?

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

Didnt gianetti also experiment with artificial O2 carriers such as perfluorocarbons?

That's supposedly what he almost died from

 

[fmk_RoI]

Mauro Gianetti. Groan.

 

[Echoes]

Most of all Gianetti was most of all one of the biggest aliens of all time if not the biggest one, stealing a Liège-Bastogne-Liège all of a sudden at age 31 in 1995 while nobody had ever heard about him before. Frans Maassen claimed that he had never raced that fast at Liège-Bastogne-Liège and yet he finished 38th 15' behind him while he had been 18th in 1991 2'30" behind Argentin. 1995/6 were the most alien seasons in cycling history. Let's not forget about that.


This being said, Gianetti or not, clean or not, racing of corrupt oil dictators sponsoring terrorism and cooperating with Israel, is a disgrace. I've lost all respect for Dan Martin, like I've already had for Nibali or Costa. You don't race for those people when you have a bit of self-respect.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Paul Kimmage wrote about Festina and omertà at the weekend. Dan Martin did not come out of it well:

And for those wondering if anything has changed, I will direct you to Dan Martin's comments in Friday's Irish Times, when he was asked by Ian O'Riordan about Froome's pending case for excessive levels of salbutamol.

"I'm not technically allowed to comment on it. The team told me not to comment but I don't really care. We don't know anything, do we?" Martin said. "It sounds horrible sitting on the fence, but we don't know the facts, and it's hard to comment. It's the situation we're in."

 

[yaco]

I'd argue that Dan Martin really said nothing in the quoted bit - He was following team orders.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I'd argue that Dan Martin really said nothing in the quoted bit - He was following team orders.

Read Kimmage's article and you might see that's the point being made, particularly about team orders.

 

[rick james]

kimmage is best ignored

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I'd argue that Dan Martin really said nothing in the quoted bit - He was following team orders.

team orders = doping culture

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

kimmage is best ignored

Only by cycling fans that want to believe in magic and miracles.

George Orwell: “Journalism is printing what someone else does not want published; everything else is public relations.”

 

[Sciatic]

Re: Re:

I'd argue that Dan Martin really said nothing in the quoted bit - He was following team orders.

Read Kimmage's article and you might see that's the point being made, particularly about team orders.

Great article. But the first I thought when I opened the link and saw the photo was, "Look how colorful that peloton is!"

 

[fmk_RoI]

According to Daniel friebe on Twitter (I know), Dan Martin "climbed the 'Breton Alpe d'Huez' in 3 mins 53 secs yesterday, the fastest time ever in the Tour." And into a headwind, to boot! ("because of the head wind and I didn’t think it was going to happen") Furthermore, "at age 15, on one of his first proper bike rides, he climbed the real Alpe d'Huez in 1 hr 8 mins, exactly half an hour slower than Pantani's record."

<Puts tinfoil hat on head and pulls up a drink of Clinic-brew Kool-Aid> How do you go from being half an hour behind Pantani to fastest up the Côte de Ménez-Hiez? HOW?!?

(Fastest is, of course, relative: they've only been up the thing as a stage finish in 2011, 2015 and 2018.)

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

According to Daniel friebe on Twitter (I know), Dan Martin "climbed the 'Breton Alpe d'Huez' in 3 mins 53 secs yesterday, the fastest time ever in the Tour." And into a headwind, to boot! ("because of the head wind and I didn’t think it was going to happen") Furthermore, "at age 15, on one of his first proper bike rides, he climbed the real Alpe d'Huez in 1 hr 8 mins, exactly half an hour slower than Pantani's record."

<Puts tinfoil hat on head and pulls up a drink of Clinic-brew Kool-Aid> How do you go from being half an hour behind Pantani to fastest up the Côte de Ménez-Hiez? HOW?!?

(Fastest is, of course, relative: they've only been up the thing as a stage finish in 2011, 2015 and 2018.)

To be fair, climbing Alpe D'Huez in 1 hour 8 minutes on one of your first proper bike rides at age 15 is not bad!

 

[Mamil]

Re:

kimmage is best ignored

Paul Kimmage, the greatest cycling journalist of the last 30 years, is best ignored?

You must follow bike racing in a bubble.

 

[ruamruam]

Re: Re:

kimmage is best ignored

Paul Kimmage, the greatest cycling journalist of the last 30 years, is best ignored?

You must follow bike racing in a bubble.

Kimmage has questioned his beloved Froome and Sky.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

kimmage is best ignored

Paul Kimmage, the greatest cycling journalist of the last 30 years, is best ignored?

You must follow bike racing in a bubble.

Paid ( i really hope) to post :lol: