Daniel Martinez is the new Daniel Martin with additional letters

[dusty red roads]

A shame he's on a team where he can't ride for himself.

 

[Bolder]

A shame he's on a team where he can't ride for himself.

Well, that was his choice when he left EF. But he will now have more chances at Ineos after this Giro.

 

[Eclipse]

Well, that was his choice when he left EF. But he will now have more chances at Ineos after this Giro.

Yep. Ineos will definitely trust him after this - easy to see a situation where he gets a free role. or if Bernal's back acted up you could see a Martinez/Carapaz double act at the Vuelta easily etc.

It's probably a good experience for him too being in part of a ruthless winning machine and he'll be at a great age when he's making his next decisions so I'd imagine he'll have plenty of opportunities to go race for himself elsewhere if that's what he wants.

 

[Red Rick]

Free role? Ineos? Maybe in some small races, but not a GT lol. They don't have free roles in GTs without completely tanking it.

 

[Leinster]

Yep. Ineos will definitely trust him after this - easy to see a situation where he gets a free role. or if Bernal's back acted up you could see a Martinez/Carapaz double act at the Vuelta easily etc.

It's probably a good experience for him too being in part of a ruthless winning machine and he'll be at a great age when he's making his next decisions so I'd imagine he'll have plenty of opportunities to go race for himself elsewhere if that's what he wants.

Tbf to Ineos, they do have a good record of giving leadership roles in other races to their GT domestiques. Be it 1-week races, other GTs, classics, whatever.

 

[Red Rick]

Tbf to Ineos, they do have a good record of giving leadership roles in other races to their GT domestiques. Be it 1-week races, other GTs, classics, whatever.

Not in GTs. Once Froome started adding the Vuelta after winning the Tour, they just sacked the Giro for their 2ndary contenders but if Bernal want to win the Vuelta too that is over.

What they have done is get their domestiques so good that they can get as high as #2 while working for their leader.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Unfortunately, at Ineos, a genuine GT contender usually most work for another genuine GT contender. It has been like that for years.

 

[BlueRoads]

He won the Dauphiné last year. Sure, after some guys crashed out, but you can usually say that about a stage race winner. I mean, I doubt he didn't know he could compete for a GT after that and I doubt Ineos didn't know that. Still he made the decision to go to Ineos and I think he knew what was awaiting him. EF prioritized Carthy over him, maybe simply because Carthy was cheaper, but I would have chosen differently if I could have. But I guess I just want to say, that's cycling, isn't it? As long as teams don't promise riders things they don't hold or riders complain after doing the money move it's all okay and normal, some sacrifice themselves for the other's glory.

 

[Bolder]

Not in GTs. Once Froome started adding the Vuelta after winning the Tour, they just sacked the Giro for their 2ndary contenders but if Bernal want to win the Vuelta too that is over.

What they have done is get their domestiques so good that they can get as high as #2 while working for their leader.

I wonder if Ineos acquired him as a super dom (Yates, Porte) or as a future GT contender, though. You can point to weaknesses in all of their current top GC guys, except maybe Carapaz, who I think is still improving.

i would not be surprised if he is a coleader at the Giro next year.

 

[Red Rick]

I wonder if Ineos acquired him as a super dom (Yates, Porte) or as a future GT contender, though. You can point to weaknesses in all of their current top GC guys, except maybe Carapaz, who I think is still improving.

i would not be surprised if he is a coleader at the Giro next year.

100% got him as a super domestique/also top 10 guy, not as future multi GT winner. They got Bernal and Sivakov to be the latter.

Praise Vino they missed out on Pogacar.

 

[RedheadDane]

Unfortunately, at Ineos, a genuine GT contender usually most work for another genuine GT contender. It has been like that for years.

So... the trick is to be the genuine GT contender the other genuine GT conteder(s) will have to work for.

 

[AlfaLum]

100% got him as a super domestique/also top 10 guy, not as future multi GT winner. They got Bernal and Sivakov to be the latter.

Praise Vino they missed out on Pogacar.

If we are talking about weaknesses, Sivakov seems to have quite a few. He needs to grow in quite a few areas to even contend a podium in a GT. I think Martinez had surpassed him in the Ineos hierarchy for now.

Anyhow i think most chances for Martinez of real success with Ineos are in the one week stage races for now. Races like Catalunya, Basque Country etc.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So... the trick is to be the genuine GT contender the other genuine GT conteder(s) will have to work for.

When it comes to Sky/Ineos this becomes a bit moot. In reality they likely just tell you what is your role and you don't really have a choice. Paycheck is the leverage they likely have over you. And you do need to feed your family in the end. The situation can be a bit similar in some other teams, at times, but Sky/Ineos took this to another level. That is why they win many races and that is why they don't win much of that other thing.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Waltz is what they normally do. So happy Slovenians made them do samba.

Just saying!

 

[RedheadDane]

When it comes to Sky/Ineos this becomes a bit moot. In reality they likely just tell you what is your role and you don't really have a choice. Paycheck is the leverage they likely have over you. And you do need to feed your family in the end. The situation can be a bit similar in some other teams, at times, but Sky/Ineos took this to another level. That is why they win many races and that is why they don't win much of that other thing.

Yes... but since a genuine GT contender will have to work for another genuine GT contender, someone will have to be the genuine GT contender the other genuine GT contender(s) will have to work for. Unless they're creating some huge loop of genuine GT contenders working for genuine GT contenders for all eternity!

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes, somebody has to be the bastard and say you are the No.1 genuine GT contender. And after to go on the market and to buy another one. And make him work for the chosen one. For sure other teams are doing a bit of that too and should be doing some of that. Otherwise you get the "tactics are just perfect". But Sky/Ineos they just go too far. They are abusive in this regard, real hogs.

 

[RedheadDane]

Still, the occassional wild Geoghegan Hart might still pop up.

 

[Leinster]

Not in GTs. Once Froome started adding the Vuelta after winning the Tour, they just sacked the Giro for their 2ndary contenders but if Bernal want to win the Vuelta too that is over.

What they have done is get their domestiques so good that they can get as high as #2 while working for their leader.

Yes in GTs, situation dependent. Let’s not forget, Froome, Thomas, TGH and Bernal, all started out riding for others before (for whatever reason) getting to lead the team. Even Tao was a “co-leader” at the 2018 Vuelta (ok, they basically wrote that one off, but they did go in giving Hart and Kwiatkowski their chance to shine). Carapaz was signed as a dom before he won the Giro, but he has been given the lead in races since.

All the meanwhile they had guys winning races like Paris-Nice, Romandie, LBL, Trentino, MSR, Strade Bianche, etc etc

I’m not an Ineos fan by any stretch, but they promote from within, and give good riders the chance to win races. Some, like Porte or Landa, have to leave to get a lead ride at the TdF; but they did get a lead ride at the Giro.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Still, the occassional wild Geoghegan Hart might still pop up.

Likely a flux related to generation change. Note that i am not holding it against them all that much and occasionally do enjoy observing a good waltz. But still it feels like they in general take it a notch too far. Like lets say current Mercedes era in F1, they just went too far.

 

[limak_]

Unfortunately, at Ineos, a genuine GT contender usually most work for another genuine GT contender. It has been like that for years.

And when that one genuine GT contender (Porte, Landa) had later a chance to ride for himself in another team, it turned out he's no longer that much of a genuine GT contender

 

[CyclistAbi]

And when that one genuine GT contender (Porte, Landa) had later a chance to ride for himself in another team, it turned out he's no longer that much of a genuine GT contender

It depends, against who. Landa on this Giro edition, against Bernal, with or without Martínez? Against Bernal in some other team?

Moot.

 

[limak_]

It depends, against who. Landa on this Giro edition, against Bernal, with or without Martínez? Against Bernal in some other team?

Moot.

As far as I remember Landa is out of the race for a while now. And the first condition of being a real GT contender is to not reguralry crash out of it.

 

[BlueRoads]

As far as I remember Landa is out of the race for a while now. And the first condition of being real GT contender is to not reguralry crash out of it.

And that's actually Martínez' main weakness, crashing... So I just hope he doesn't next time he rides for himself.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I agree, no point in debating that. As said earlier i don't hold it against Ineos but from time to time it needs to be said. That is their wins don't only come from some brilliant sport point of view. And it's not like they are not aware of it:

P.S. In addition Slovenians introduced some much needed balance in the peloton. Hence the whole Ineos situation is not that bad ATM. Lets just enjoy that.

 

[BlueRoads]

I agree, no point in debating that. As said earlier i don't hold it against Ineos but from time to time it needs to be said. That is their wins don't only come from some brilliant sport point of view. And it's not like they are not aware of it:

P.S. In addition Slovenians introduced some much needed balance in the peloton. Hence the whole Ineos situation is not that bad ATM. Lets just enjoy that.

Everybody except Skyneos' fans are annoyed with Ineos and their budget is way too big in comparison. Yeah.
But if you say Ineos are strangling races and the Slovenians are the saviours of the sport one more time I will jump out of the window so please have mercy and try to keep the words in your mouth.