- May 26, 2010
- 28,143
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Sky ignoring that Brailsford was the so called genius at BC who was going to bring all that to Sky, the marginal gains was supposedly already perfected for track and getting results, but now they are claiming they were a young team who made some mistakes? WTF as usual rewriting history to suit their purposes.
More lies from Sky and Brailsford.
More leaks to come no doubt.
I bet Brailsford is fuming Froome is not 100% behind Dave.
More lies from Sky and Brailsford.
More leaks to come no doubt.
I bet Brailsford is fuming Froome is not 100% behind Dave.
That covering letter by Brailsford is such an embarrassing load of shite I can't bring myself to read the rest of the documents.
Hilarious delusional and desperate.
I wonder if Team Sky's legacy will be a lesson for corporate management and PR in how not to deal with a situation like this.
Hilarious delusional and desperate.
I wonder if Team Sky's legacy will be a lesson for corporate management and PR in how not to deal with a situation like this.
Re:
Oh do. It's fun to see how deep they are digging themselves!
Though have to say whole narrative is laced with sub-text of Freemen was Rogue and would not conform. And note what they actually said re. Flumicil's debacle:
Dr Freeman would not have been able to purchase it in France, even if the required form had been available to purchase (which, to our knowledge, it was not), because – according to Dr Freeman – he does not have prescription rights in France. (my bold)
I mean, this stuff took me less than 30 seconds to look up on the internet. They must have known the twitterati would check.
Plus the tone about the whole 'adopting technology'. At some point they got him an assistant (begs the question why - wasn't he coping?) The fact they state Dropbox was 'never intended to be a substitute for each doctor’s own individual record keeping (which they are obliged to comply with under their medical licences); helping himself to drugs for his private practice (WTF!) and so it goes on.
So I agree with Conor McGrane on twitter - "Dr Freeman being lined up for a fall big time, some real nasty "black ops" going on here IMO"
Dan2016 said:
Oh do. It's fun to see how deep they are digging themselves!
Though have to say whole narrative is laced with sub-text of Freemen was Rogue and would not conform. And note what they actually said re. Flumicil's debacle:
Dr Freeman would not have been able to purchase it in France, even if the required form had been available to purchase (which, to our knowledge, it was not), because – according to Dr Freeman – he does not have prescription rights in France. (my bold)
I mean, this stuff took me less than 30 seconds to look up on the internet. They must have known the twitterati would check.
Plus the tone about the whole 'adopting technology'. At some point they got him an assistant (begs the question why - wasn't he coping?) The fact they state Dropbox was 'never intended to be a substitute for each doctor’s own individual record keeping (which they are obliged to comply with under their medical licences); helping himself to drugs for his private practice (WTF!) and so it goes on.
So I agree with Conor McGrane on twitter - "Dr Freeman being lined up for a fall big time, some real nasty "black ops" going on here IMO"
- May 26, 2010
- 28,143
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Re: Re:
Are they risking trying to end his career? Have they forgotten Landis? Jeez these people are so stupid.
Freeman is either getting a huge payoff, being threatened or will suddenly appear with the allegedly lost files for the whole team.
Electress said:
Are they risking trying to end his career? Have they forgotten Landis? Jeez these people are so stupid.
Freeman is either getting a huge payoff, being threatened or will suddenly appear with the allegedly lost files for the whole team.
thehog
BANNED
- Jul 27, 2009
- 31,285
- 2
- 22,485
Re: Re:
It looks that way, although he could be in on it but that would be a huge risk for him. They must no already he is a frail and he has already confirmed to UKAD with his story matching Sky's.
Freeman is still employed by British Cycling which is also laced in irony.
Will await tomorrow's developments... surely another Sky masterpiece in the making.
Electress said:
It looks that way, although he could be in on it but that would be a huge risk for him. They must no already he is a frail and he has already confirmed to UKAD with his story matching Sky's.
Freeman is still employed by British Cycling which is also laced in irony.
Will await tomorrow's developments... surely another Sky masterpiece in the making.
Re:
Yeah I think it's a bit of both.
Brailsford and co are intelligent to certain degree, and, as we've seen, also monumentally stupid in a every other friggin degree. Like cross-eyed dungaree-wearing banjo-playing my-mother-is-my-sister gun-tooting stupid. Really really stupid.
They also have a massive fan base in the UK. If you're not in the UK you've probably been shielded to a certain extent from the Sky cult over here. Bikeradar is a good snapshot of what I mean.
I hope to god I'm wrong but I think there is a reasonable chance this will all be forgotten, the season will go on, the Tour will be won. Everything rosy. Team cleans. The denial and wishful thinking of Sky fanboys is very strong and Sky know it. We've seen this all before with Armstrong. Just not as comical.
Benotti69 said:
Yeah I think it's a bit of both.
Brailsford and co are intelligent to certain degree, and, as we've seen, also monumentally stupid in a every other friggin degree. Like cross-eyed dungaree-wearing banjo-playing my-mother-is-my-sister gun-tooting stupid. Really really stupid.
They also have a massive fan base in the UK. If you're not in the UK you've probably been shielded to a certain extent from the Sky cult over here. Bikeradar is a good snapshot of what I mean.
I hope to god I'm wrong but I think there is a reasonable chance this will all be forgotten, the season will go on, the Tour will be won. Everything rosy. Team cleans. The denial and wishful thinking of Sky fanboys is very strong and Sky know it. We've seen this all before with Armstrong. Just not as comical.
Re: Re:
Haha! Thanks for the little teaser. I might have a go at the documents tomorrow. Hopefully my head doesn't explode. I'm actually feeling pretty hacked-off about this nonsense after reading the covering letter by Brailsford. The assault on our intelligence is friggin ridiculous. I'm finding myself seeing him as a really odious little man.
I'm sure I'll be seeing the funny side again shortly though .
Electress said:
Haha! Thanks for the little teaser. I might have a go at the documents tomorrow. Hopefully my head doesn't explode. I'm actually feeling pretty hacked-off about this nonsense after reading the covering letter by Brailsford. The assault on our intelligence is friggin ridiculous. I'm finding myself seeing him as a really odious little man.
I'm sure I'll be seeing the funny side again shortly though
.Are we all complicit in this continuing charade that is pro cycling?
We're still watching it, buying stuff and all that crap.
Just throwing the question out there, so to speak.
We're still watching it, buying stuff and all that crap.
Just throwing the question out there, so to speak.
- Mar 29, 2016
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Re: Re:
I think the whole watching cycling argument has been done to death many times over on here.
That isn't the issue here - the issue here is a Team/Regime/Individual who hold themselves out to be whiter than white, virgin, squeaky clean bastions of cleanliness, transparency and attention to detail.
Circumstantial evidence and their own actions have proved this simply not to be the case but the original message is one they desperately cling onto.
And this desperate clinging onto this agenda/message together with Brailsfords written explanation to the committee is bordering on delusional in the lengths they will go to control their agenda.
This 'control' of the news agenda is exactly the same tactic Lance Armstron used towards the end. Remember his spokesperson Mark whatever his name was. It got to a point where he was being likened to Comical Ali from the Iraq war.
Brailsford is becoming the new Comical Ali.
Robert5091 said:Dan2016 said:
more postmodern theatre then sport.
I think the whole watching cycling argument has been done to death many times over on here.
That isn't the issue here - the issue here is a Team/Regime/Individual who hold themselves out to be whiter than white, virgin, squeaky clean bastions of cleanliness, transparency and attention to detail.
Circumstantial evidence and their own actions have proved this simply not to be the case but the original message is one they desperately cling onto.
And this desperate clinging onto this agenda/message together with Brailsfords written explanation to the committee is bordering on delusional in the lengths they will go to control their agenda.
This 'control' of the news agenda is exactly the same tactic Lance Armstron used towards the end. Remember his spokesperson Mark whatever his name was. It got to a point where he was being likened to Comical Ali from the Iraq war.
Brailsford is becoming the new Comical Ali.
Re: Re:
Mark FabianiB_Ugli said:Robert5091 said:Dan2016 said:
more postmodern theatre then sport.
I think the whole watching cycling argument has been done to death many times over on here.
That isn't the issue here - the issue here is a Team/Regime/Individual who hold themselves out to be whiter than white, virgin, squeaky clean bastions of cleanliness, transparency and attention to detail.
Circumstantial evidence and their own actions have proved this simply not to be the case but the original message is one they desperately cling onto.
And this desperate clinging onto this agenda/message together with Brailsfords written explanation to the committee is bordering on delusional in the lengths they will go to control their agenda.
This 'control' of the news agenda is exactly the same tactic Lance Armstron used towards the end. Remember his spokesperson Mark whatever his name was. It got to a point where he was being likened to Comical Ali from the Iraq war.
Brailsford is becoming the new Comical Ali.
Re: Re:
Fair enough if it's been done to death. I'm relatively new here so must've missed it.
Just wondering if we can and should be active consumers of professional cycling or remain passive consumers as we've always been. Maybe that's too simplistic though.
In football (soccer) fans have a real say in what goes on at their clubs. Fans associations. They petition, protest, boycott, hold discussions with club management etc. In cycling we laugh and moan on forums and twitter...and still buy the bikes we see the top (doped) riders riding, go out and watch on the road side, buy the team kit, watch on TV etc.
I reckon we're a bunch of passive hypocrites. If we really cared we'd be making our voices known, directly informing all associated sponsors that we will no longer consume their products as long as they effectively endorse doped teams. And other such actions. Just thinking out loud, it's not a formulated plan.
It's easy to say it's just entertainment and not take it that seriously, just enjoy watching it for what it is. I generally think that way. And this Sky fiasco is hilarious. But it's also pretty friggin dark. The drugs these young guys and girls are cramming down them are serious stuff. Never mind blood transfusions.
We are mocking Sky now, and they deserve it and it's a lot of fun, but we are all part of this ridiculous merry-go-round.
B_Ugli said:Robert5091 said:Dan2016 said:
more postmodern theatre then sport.
I think the whole watching cycling argument has been done to death many times over on here.
That isn't the issue here - the issue here is a Team/Regime/Individual who hold themselves out to be whiter than white, virgin, squeaky clean bastions of cleanliness, transparency and attention to detail.
Circumstantial evidence and their own actions have proved this simply not to be the case but the original message is one they desperately cling onto.
And this desperate clinging onto this agenda/message together with Brailsfords written explanation to the committee is bordering on delusional in the lengths they will go to control their agenda.
This 'control' of the news agenda is exactly the same tactic Lance Armstron used towards the end. Remember his spokesperson Mark whatever his name was. It got to a point where he was being likened to Comical Ali from the Iraq war.
Brailsford is becoming the new Comical Ali.
Fair enough if it's been done to death. I'm relatively new here so must've missed it.
Just wondering if we can and should be active consumers of professional cycling or remain passive consumers as we've always been. Maybe that's too simplistic though.
In football (soccer) fans have a real say in what goes on at their clubs. Fans associations. They petition, protest, boycott, hold discussions with club management etc. In cycling we laugh and moan on forums and twitter...and still buy the bikes we see the top (doped) riders riding, go out and watch on the road side, buy the team kit, watch on TV etc.
I reckon we're a bunch of passive hypocrites. If we really cared we'd be making our voices known, directly informing all associated sponsors that we will no longer consume their products as long as they effectively endorse doped teams. And other such actions. Just thinking out loud, it's not a formulated plan.
It's easy to say it's just entertainment and not take it that seriously, just enjoy watching it for what it is. I generally think that way. And this Sky fiasco is hilarious. But it's also pretty friggin dark. The drugs these young guys and girls are cramming down them are serious stuff. Never mind blood transfusions.
We are mocking Sky now, and they deserve it and it's a lot of fun, but we are all part of this ridiculous merry-go-round.
- May 26, 2010
- 28,143
- 5
- 0
Great last line by Marina Hyde( best sports writer by mile in the Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism
Brailsford took USPS and sprinkled a little Vaughters on top and hey presto TeamSky.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/mar/08/team-sky-are-hoist-on-their-own-petard-by-admissions-of-amateurism
Brailsford took USPS and sprinkled a little Vaughters on top and hey presto TeamSky.
Sounds about right!
The sad thing is how obvious it was. If not from the start, then at least from 2011 onwards.
Crystal *** clear for everybody except the UK press and David Walsh.
Re:
This. For years I've been telling friends etc. and it's been like they've had a part of their brain removed. Something which appears to me as clear as looking through a freakin' window has seemed to be utterly beyond belief.
What price Walsh's comments about their professionalism compared to other teams now. Wonder if he'd like to comment on how they were able to surpass others so easily if it wasn't because of their professional approach. :razz:
sniper said:
This. For years I've been telling friends etc. and it's been like they've had a part of their brain removed. Something which appears to me as clear as looking through a freakin' window has seemed to be utterly beyond belief.
What price Walsh's comments about their professionalism compared to other teams now. Wonder if he'd like to comment on how they were able to surpass others so easily if it wasn't because of their professional approach. :razz:
Re: Re:
You make a lot of good points and I don't disagree with lots of them. There was a stage where I watched every race I could on TV when I was growing up and had posters of Greg Lemond and Team Motorola all over my bedroom walls. 30 years of drugs scandals takes the rose tint off it somewhat. Nowadays I watch few races but I am pretty much take it or leave it. Professional Cycling is a circus and a bizarre one at that with its own set of rules and rituals.
While Team Sky have been caught out this time, you can guarantee that the others are on a similar programme to a lesser or greater degree. That's one thing the Armstrong era did teach us - if everyone is doing the same then it is a level playing field.. .........sort of.
Most of us just see it for what it is nowadays - cycling is a sport in love with medicine and that is the way it will always be.
None of want to see riders having urine thrown at them or put in danger that's for sure. Should fans be protesting at start villages? Yes. Should riders feel uncomfortable getting off their team buses? Yes
Should there be placards with Team Kenacort & Team Lie outside the Sky bus? Yes
Despite what Geraint Thomas was whinging about the other day - he is part of it whether he likes it or not. There are 100's of grass roots individuals over the UK promoting the sport who have nothing to do with this and who feel rightly aggrieved by what is going on. Those are the people that deserve answers from the hierarchy of the sport. Those are the people I feel sorry for. They are the ones who give up their spare time unpaid to the sport in the UK.
Instead more lies and misrepresentation from Brailsford and co as they try and deceive their way out of it.
People decried the scandal hit Conservative party of the 90's but at least people used to do the honourable thing and resign. Guys like Brailsford have no honour, instead they try and lie and spin their way out of it a la mode de Tony Blair.
Dan2016 said:B_Ugli said:Robert5091 said:Dan2016 said:
more postmodern theatre then sport.
I think the whole watching cycling argument has been done to death many times over on here.
That isn't the issue here - the issue here is a Team/Regime/Individual who hold themselves out to be whiter than white, virgin, squeaky clean bastions of cleanliness, transparency and attention to detail.
Circumstantial evidence and their own actions have proved this simply not to be the case but the original message is one they desperately cling onto.
And this desperate clinging onto this agenda/message together with Brailsfords written explanation to the committee is bordering on delusional in the lengths they will go to control their agenda.
This 'control' of the news agenda is exactly the same tactic Lance Armstron used towards the end. Remember his spokesperson Mark whatever his name was. It got to a point where he was being likened to Comical Ali from the Iraq war.
Brailsford is becoming the new Comical Ali.
Fair enough if it's been done to death. I'm relatively new here so must've missed it.
Just wondering if we can and should be active consumers of professional cycling or remain passive consumers as we've always been. Maybe that's too simplistic though.
In football (soccer) fans have a real say in what goes on at their clubs. Fans associations. They petition, protest, boycott, hold discussions with club management etc. In cycling we laugh and moan on forums and twitter...and still buy the bikes we see the top (doped) riders riding, go out and watch on the road side, buy the team kit, watch on TV etc.
I reckon we're a bunch of passive hypocrites. If we really cared we'd be making our voices known, directly informing all associated sponsors that we will no longer consume their products as long as they effectively endorse doped teams. And other such actions. Just thinking out loud, it's not a formulated plan.
It's easy to say it's just entertainment and not take it that seriously, just enjoy watching it for what it is. I generally think that way. And this Sky fiasco is hilarious. But it's also pretty friggin dark. The drugs these young guys and girls are cramming down them are serious stuff. Never mind blood transfusions.
We are mocking Sky now, and they deserve it and it's a lot of fun, but we are all part of this ridiculous merry-go-round.
You make a lot of good points and I don't disagree with lots of them. There was a stage where I watched every race I could on TV when I was growing up and had posters of Greg Lemond and Team Motorola all over my bedroom walls. 30 years of drugs scandals takes the rose tint off it somewhat. Nowadays I watch few races but I am pretty much take it or leave it. Professional Cycling is a circus and a bizarre one at that with its own set of rules and rituals.
While Team Sky have been caught out this time, you can guarantee that the others are on a similar programme to a lesser or greater degree. That's one thing the Armstrong era did teach us - if everyone is doing the same then it is a level playing field.. .........sort of.
Most of us just see it for what it is nowadays - cycling is a sport in love with medicine and that is the way it will always be.
None of want to see riders having urine thrown at them or put in danger that's for sure. Should fans be protesting at start villages? Yes. Should riders feel uncomfortable getting off their team buses? Yes
Should there be placards with Team Kenacort & Team Lie outside the Sky bus? Yes
Despite what Geraint Thomas was whinging about the other day - he is part of it whether he likes it or not. There are 100's of grass roots individuals over the UK promoting the sport who have nothing to do with this and who feel rightly aggrieved by what is going on. Those are the people that deserve answers from the hierarchy of the sport. Those are the people I feel sorry for. They are the ones who give up their spare time unpaid to the sport in the UK.
Instead more lies and misrepresentation from Brailsford and co as they try and deceive their way out of it.
People decried the scandal hit Conservative party of the 90's but at least people used to do the honourable thing and resign. Guys like Brailsford have no honour, instead they try and lie and spin their way out of it a la mode de Tony Blair.
Re: Re:
Medical Associations are powerful organisations who are fantastic at representing their members - Very doubtful Freeman will be struck off the register - His issue is UKAD may charge him with trafiicking a prohibited substance under the WADA code.
Benotti69 said:
Medical Associations are powerful organisations who are fantastic at representing their members - Very doubtful Freeman will be struck off the register - His issue is UKAD may charge him with trafiicking a prohibited substance under the WADA code.
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