Dekker WTF?????????????????????

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I have seen the documentary, thank you very much and although indeed he wasn't actually chastising himself, he did feel sorry for himself and was rather depressed (which in itself isn't that strange now, really?). However at no time during the documentary he said he was wronged or that they were wrong for banning him. Much rather he was saying that he himself had been stupid to do doping. All in all you have proved zilch on Dkeer being unrepentant, unlike your man Valverde who is still shouting from the top of his lungs that he didn't do anything wrong.

Regards
GJ

The "proof" is in the documentary. Dekker was clearly looking for revenge on whoever it was that screwed him over. He couldn't have been more clear. I can understand it perfectly, but at least I'm not in denial.

You actually ask the right questions, yet will never find it if you hold a "weird the" weird now" attitude.

In that documentary Dekker was in denial, he was angry, he felt picked on - no, I doubt he suddenly changed his mind, but I would think he had a slow realization that he had to accept responsibility and would have to change his attitude.

The "why" appears to have started when he was courted by Garmin - they expressed an interest, but he would have to pass their tests - not just physiological but a change in attitude also. Which is why they took so long in bringing him in to the top team.

I'll believe him when he starts naming names. As it stands he's just another caught doper who did what he had to do to sign with the team of his choice. His career came first.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

You sir, are a funny hypocritical man.
It's laughable you even dare posting here as Valv. fanboy. The guy who still shouts to the world he never did anything wrong. Yawn. Begone

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The "proof" is in the documentary. Dekker was clearly looking for revenge on whoever it was that screwed him over. He couldn't have been more clear. I can understand it perfectly, but at least I'm not in denial.

I haven't watched the documentary - but i have the read the associated comments. "Revenge" - sure, it is part of that anger, as Hog noted, part of the mindset of a doper is that many others are doing it and why are they singled out?

It can take time for many to finally admit that they alone are responsible for their own actions and that they are not being unfairly treated.

I'll believe him when he starts naming names. As it stands he's just another caught doper who did what he had to do to sign with the team of his choice. His career came first.

Well -that's a double edged sword. You want him to name names so he can return to the sport, but history has taught us that those who name names do not get to return to the sport.
It isn't Dekkers role to sort out cyclings problem - he can only be held accountable for his own actions and what he does in the future.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

Well -that's a double edged sword. You want him to name names so he can return to the sport, but history has taught us that those who name names do not get to return to the sport.
It isn't Dekkers role to sort out cyclings problem - he can only be held accountable for his own actions and what he does in the future.

Didn't stop D Millar naming Ricco & Piepoli as dopers and returning to the sport, oh yeah he said 'positive/non negative' things about Armstrong so got a get out of jail free card.

 

[Cranky McSlik]

Context. Context is the word. He was talking about the house in Belgium he bought on advice by friends and managers to stay away from certain places and go back to a closer-to-home enviroment. When he was first interviewed, the house was just new and there was nothing in it.

So awful when people have no freckin idea what they are talking about and sprout random nonsense like you. Begone![/ Was the house gifted to him or did he buy it with money while he was cheating?I don't care what the circumstances are about why and where he bought it just whether it was bought with drug money. Here in the US items bought with drug money are confiscated. Kinda like prize money, endorsements fee's, etc.ALL of those must be returned .Your ridiculous statement that I would prefer to burn the house down is absurd.And try to stay on topic : WHY IS GARMIN SO HOT FOR HIM?You spend too much time comparing him to Valverde et al.Finally, no I WONT begone just because you can't handle some disagreement.If anythings going to make me begone it will be dopers like Dekker and teams like Garmin who shout so loudly about zero tolerance then turn around and hire dopers? Hence the original post.BTW, 'cross rules!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

What a bizarre thread.

Dekker doped. He was caught. He denied it. Which is pretty much par for the course. He then stopped denying it, which is more unusual, and took responsibility for his own decisions, which is also relatively unusual. He has served his time and is as entitled to a second chance as anyone else.

Of course, I'd prefer if he went on to name names, but I can also understand why that's a very difficult stance to take for someone who is still riding in the professional peloton.

As for Garmin, and their attitude to dopers, they have never claimed that they will never hire a former doper. They hardly could, given that David Millar has been a leading figure in their team for years. And given the pasts of certain others. They have never argued that every rider who ever doped should be cast in the outer darkness for all eternity. Just that they are committed to providing a dope free environment for their current riders.

 

[ferryman]

haven't you heard? dopers who aint anglo saxon have no right for second chances.

they can't all be david millars and be heroes of cycling

Bad example, Millar is not Anglo Saxon. But I hear you

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Didn't stop D Millar naming Ricco & Piepoli as dopers and returning to the sport, oh yeah he said 'positive/non negative' things about Armstrong so got a get out of jail free card.

Ricco & Piepoli - thanks for proving the point, Millar told the UCI what was happening in SavunierD, guess what the UCI did..... nothing.
AFLD caught them.

As for Armstrong - seriously? I can understand why people would not mention him, as he will come after you. But he has nothing to do with the sport now - even the UCI will drop him, when it hits the fan.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Well -that's a double edged sword. You want him to name names so he can return to the sport, but history has taught us that those who name names do not get to return to the sport.

Sinkewitz found a good team, eventually...

I have no problem with Dekker or any other previously suspended dopers returning to a UCI Pro Team. I'm a just a little more skeptical than your average when it comes to repentant dopers. These partial confessions are a dime a dozen and usually just a means to an end.

 

[Benotti69]

Ricco & Piepoli - thanks for proving the point, Millar told the UCI what was happening in SavunierD, guess what the UCI did..... nothing.
AFLD caught them.

So why didn't Dekker go to the AFLD?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sinkewitz found a good team, eventually...

I have no problem with Dekker or any other previously suspended dopers returning to a UCI Pro Team. I'm a just a little more skeptical than your average when it comes to repentant dopers. These partial confessions are a dime a dozen and usually just a means to an end.

Did Sinkerwitz actually name people or just talk about his own doping in general?
Regardless - he was pretty much sidelined becasue of the backlash in Germany, so I am not sure how his story compares to Dekker & Garmin.

I have no problem that you are skeptical - in fact its better to be skeptical than to believe the hype or PR, but I also believe that there can be too much expectation on what riders or teams can do, ultimately they can only be responsible for their own actions.

So why didn't Dekker go to the AFLD?

Why? AFLD is the French Anti-doping department, they are not the FBI.

AFLD caught Ricco & Piepoli because they were involved in doing the TdF that year- nothing to do with Millar, or UCI.

 

[Benotti69]

Why? AFLD is the French Anti-doping department, they are not the FBI.

AFLD caught Ricco & Piepoli because they were involved in doing the TdF that year- nothing to do with Millar, or UCI.

Dekker can go to the FBI about Garmin when they dont renew his contract

 

[biopass]

Dekker can go to the FBI about Garmin when they dont renew his contract

And after Nowitzky have found JV and Garmin guilty of organised doping, Dekker will be asking himself:
"Why me? Why is no one signing me?"

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And after Nowitzky have found JV and Garmin guilty of organised doping, Dekker will be asking himself:
"Why me? Why is no one signing me?"

No, no - all he has to do is say nice things about Armstrong - everything revolves around him and that allows him to return.

 

[pmcg76]

Context. Context is the word. He was talking about the house in Belgium he bought on advice by friends and managers to stay away from certain places and go back to a closer-to-home enviroment. When he was first interviewed, the house was just new and there was nothing in it.

So awful when people have no freckin idea what they are talking about and sprout random nonsense like you. Begone![/ Was the house gifted to him or did he buy it with money while he was cheating?I don't care what the circumstances are about why and where he bought it just whether it was bought with drug money. Here in the US items bought with drug money are confiscated. Kinda like prize money, endorsements fee's, etc.ALL of those must be returned .Your ridiculous statement that I would prefer to burn the house down is absurd.And try to stay on topic : WHY IS GARMIN SO HOT FOR HIM?You spend too much time comparing him to Valverde et al.Finally, no I WONT begone just because you can't handle some disagreement.If anythings going to make me begone it will be dopers like Dekker and teams like Garmin who shout so loudly about zero tolerance then turn around and hire dopers? Hence the original post.BTW, 'cross rules!

Are you seriously comparing Dekker to drug lords in the US

So what if his house was bought with money he earned whilst cheating, how does than make him different from many pros, those who have been caught and those who have not been caught. Its a fine line between guilty and innocent, usually just an unfortunate positive test. Or is it ok if a rider cheats his whole career but never gets caught, he is ok to keep all his fraudulent earnings!!

Have any other riders who tested positive given up their earnings, properties or had them confiscated. I dont think so, why should this apply to Dekker only.
Dekker was punished by the standards set for his profession, he served his sentence and is now back. Now it would be great if the sentences were harsher but some on here would see cyclists endure tougher observation and harsher punishment than most real life criminals.

Why only this outrage at Dekker, is he somehow different than others who were caught? If you knew as much as you think, you would know that Garmin's policy is zero tolerance whilst at Garmin. What happened in the past stays there, I guess you could say they see themselves as some sort of rehab centre, doped in the past? come back with us and do it the correct way. Whether people believe that is truly the case or not, that is up to them.

Dekker was a highly talented rider long before he ever made the pro ranks so Garmin obviously believe he has enough talent to garnish some results for them. Dekker doped, took his punishment and is now allegedly trying to do it honestly with an (allegedly) clean team. Where is the problem.

My personal interests or feelings for Dekker are 0, I just dont understand all these moral crusades against riders who have lived by the requirements of their sport.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Did Sinkerwitz actually name people or just talk about his own doping in general?
Regardless - he was pretty much sidelined becasue of the backlash in Germany, so I am not sure how his story compares to Dekker & Garmin.

Yeah, he reportedly named Kloden and others. He publicly denied it, though, after that info found its way to the press. I guess that wasn't supposed to happen.

 

[Benotti69]

No, no - all he has to do is say nice things about Armstrong - everything revolves around him and that allows him to return.

No everything DID, UCI are looking for a new patron to bully the riders.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

JV on Dekker:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=16017

 

[pastronef]

Gerard Vroomen has been talking about Thoms Frei come back, as well as Thomas Dekker, in his twitters

someone asked him and Vaughters about Dekker, if Gerard was against his return with Garmin-Cervelo

"I did. Unfortunately it didn't help, he was hired anyway. It's the last time they asked my advice"

and Vaughters, answering to some other twitter question (over gerard's criticism against Frei and not Dekker) said "actually Gerard busted my balls plenty on Dekker"


and on his blog (gerard.cc)

"I don’t know how much Millar had to fight, that was before my time, but Dekker definitely had to. At least he had to fight me all the way. I lost.

So no, not a double standard. The same standard. The only difference may be the place where I fought the fight. But I fight it where I think the impact is the biggest. Also there, I’m not always right"

 

[Ripper]

So yet another lying cheater is back racing and he has this to say in the interview " I still have that house that you interviewed me in".... you mean the one you bought with drug money?Why the f%$# is Garmin so hot for him? Just sayin'.

Seriously? I guess we should also bring out capital punishment for dopers who have already done their time

Are you seriously comparing Dekker to drug lords in the US ... My personal interests or feelings for Dekker are 0, I just dont understand all these moral crusades against riders who have lived by the requirements of their sport.

Agreed. Some of the outrage is just way over the top.

 

[Bala Verde]

Context. Context is the word. He was talking about the house in Belgium he bought on advice by friends and managers to stay away from certain places and go back to a closer-to-home enviroment. When he was first interviewed, the house was just new and there was nothing in it.

So awful when people have no freckin idea what they are talking about and sprout random nonsense like you. Begone!

Was the house gifted to him or did he buy it with money while he was cheating?I don't care what the circumstances are about why and where he bought it just whether it was bought with drug money. Here in the US items bought with drug money are confiscated. Kinda like prize money, endorsements fee's, etc.ALL of those must be returned .Your ridiculous statement that I would prefer to burn the house down is absurd.And try to stay on topic : WHY IS GARMIN SO HOT FOR HIM?You spend too much time comparing him to Valverde et al.Finally, no I WONT begone just because you can't handle some disagreement.If anythings going to make me begone it will be dopers like Dekker and teams like Garmin who shout so loudly about zero tolerance then turn around and hire dopers? Hence the original post.BTW, 'cross rules!

Just out of curiosity, are dopers in the US actually (always) forced to return their endorsements, salaries, prize money etc, and if so how. In criminal court, or arising from a civil suits for breach of contract (i.e. a sponsorship contract stipulates that damages will need to be paid when one is found to be doping), or through their respective sport associations?