Dennis Menchov

[The Hitch]

Again, I wasn't being critical of Evans.

Is Menchov going to win the Tour next year? Probably not.

I dont know why you keep changing the subject to new things.

My posts says that Cadel's 2010 Giro was very impressive, the showing of a rider who by all means could still bring it in Grand Tours.

Why you then respond by pointing out that you were not critical of Evans and that you dont think Menchov will win the Tour, is beyond me.

Do i care if you are critical of Evans? no.

If the 34-year-old Evans could turn the tide, Menchov still has time to. He may not make it to the same level as Evans (and certainly he has a tendency to achieve his results in a more under-the-radar style), but the last time we wrote off an ageing GT rider on a relatively weak team, he came storming back to pick up the best results of his

Finally something related to our discussion.

Why do you say turn the tide?

In your earlier posts you very slyly put in the "GT" stipulation into his 2010 season saying his gt performance wasnt as good as past performances. To this one can only respond in agreement that compared to 07 and 08 it wasnt his best year.

But here you mention "turn the tide" which means we should look at his whole season and performances rather than just his finishing positions in the Giro and Tour.

Evans peaked for the Ardennes, dropped Contador on the Muur, then took this lenghy peak into the Giro where finally in the 3rd week he cracked.

He then went into the Tour after that Giro and put in a very good performance until his fall.

And he did this all in the stripes of world champion.

Which brings us to this years Tour.

Beating Andy Schleck was still difficult but less so considering Schleck stupidly thought he could out tt Cadel and didnt do anything on 3 out of 4 hc mtfs.

As for the others, they were all screwed or injured or both. When Frank Schleck is the 3rd man on the podiu, you know it wasnt a great TDF lineup.

And compared to his 2010 form it was no turning of the tide. Maybe a slight improvement. If that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I dont know why you keep changing the subject to new things.

My posts says that Cadel's 2010 Giro was very impressive, the showing of a rider who by all means could still bring it in Grand Tours.

Why you then respond by pointing out that you were not critical of Evans and that you dont think Menchov will win the Tour, is beyond me.

Do i care if you are critical of Evans? no.

It's called perception. It's about interpretation. Evans' 2010 Giro was very impressive - but the on-paper results he brought home from the 2010 GTs was less than he had brought home from 2007-9. Hence the feeling that his peak powers were waning. Evans is always a hard example because of his transition in racing style; many felt that he had gone from riding within himself and conservatively to 2nd in the Tour, to working himself to the ground to come 5th in the Giro - but as we will never know just how far into the red he went in 2008, we will never know. The on-paper result was less good despite him having done more to bring himself forward, hence the perception of many - myself included - was that he no longer had the same capabilities he had in '07-'08, but this was being compensated by a smarter and more aggressive racing strategy. Whether that perception was correct or not is another matter entirely.

Finally something related to our discussion.

Why do you say turn the tide?

In your earlier posts you very slyly put in the "GT" stipulation into his 2010 season saying his gt performance wasnt as good as past performances. To this one can only respond in agreement that compared to 07 and 08 it wasnt his best year.

But here you mention "turn the tide" which means we should look at his whole season and performances rather than just his finishing positions in the Giro and Tour.

Evans peaked for the Ardennes, dropped Contador on the Muur, then took this lenghy peak into the Giro where finally in the 3rd week he cracked.

He then went into the Tour after that Giro and put in a very good performance until his fall.

And he did this all in the stripes of world champion.

Which brings us to this years Tour.

Beating Andy Schleck was still difficult but less so considering Schleck stupidly thought he could out tt Cadel and didnt do anything on 3 out of 4 hc mtfs.

As for the others, they were all screwed or injured or both. When Frank Schleck is the 3rd man on the podiu, you know it wasnt a great TDF lineup.

And compared to his 2010 form it was no turning of the tide. Maybe a slight improvement. If that.

Turn the tide of public opinion. Prove those such as myself who thought he'd lost his greatest chance of ever winning a GT wrong. I "slyly" specified GTs because only a fool would argue that Evans isn't - and hasn't always been - a better man in one day races than Menchov.

In reality, my first comment was intended as a bit of a throwaway comment based on "the last time a major GT contender was written off as being past it or on a team that seemed weak and ineffectual was Evans, who just won the Tour". It wasn't intended as an in-depth debate of the relative merits of the GT fields Evans finished highly in in 2010 or 2011, or the relative merits of my own and other peoples' assumptions about Evans' mentalities and abilities. It was more a case of "speculating on Menchov being on a poor team/getting too old/getting unmotivated is both premature and a bit unnecessary, and I'll use Evans as an example of similar speculation being proven wrong".

 

[auscyclefan94]

Which brings us to this years Tour.

Beating Andy Schleck was still difficult but less so considering Schleck stupidly thought he could out tt Cadel and didnt do anything on 3 out of 4 hc mtfs.

As for the others, they were all screwed or injured or both. When Frank Schleck is the 3rd man on the podiu, you know it wasnt a great TDF lineup.

And compared to his 2010 form it was no turning of the tide. Maybe a slight improvement. If that.

According to O'Grady and some of his other team mates they knew Andy was not going to hold on as it was a very good course for Evans.

His form was much better in 2011 than in 2010. He had a good season last year but lacked quite a few results.

2011: 5 victories (to date)

- Tirreno Adriatico + stage win
- Tour of Romandie
- Tour de France + stage win

2010: 2 victories
- Fleche Wallonne
- Stage of Giro D Italia

I don't think wins by themselves paint a picture of a season but with a bit of luck he could of had some massive results in 2010 as well being very close in races such as Liege, Tirreno, Tour Down Under and the Giro. Add those to your list and you have a very good year as well. I still think he was a bit better prepared this year and rode a bit smarter but I don't think it was a massive turning of the tide. imo, having some of the others not crash may have helped Cadel in quite a few circumstances and in modern cycling you don't see a long range attack like Schleck did so if he waited for the last climb he may ofstruggled to get any time. Andy was on the backfoot on the Alpe because Evans put him in front of him and set the pace.


Back on topic: Menchov can't afford to lose anytime though on the upside he has Salamanca coming up where could produce a killer ITT and take out quite a few rivals in the gc. He also hasn't crashed heavily yet like Nibali Rodriguez and Scarponi have. They may be suffering on the weekend and maybe Menchov can land a big blow on Sunday and then on Monday.

 

[The Hitch]

Andy was on the backfoot on the Alpe because Evans put him in front of him and set the pace.

As I recall andy and Frank were at the front for 95% of Alpe and Andy even went back to talk to Cadel.

In interviews afterwards Andy was asked what he said to Cadel and he replied that he asked Cadel to help set the pace.

 

[greenedge]

I don't think he can win now that he is so far down.

 

[python]

anyone who sees menchov's troubles this year in his new team is dead wrong, imo.

in fact, he got just about everything from geox he asked for...a 2 million euro contract, 2 of his personal domestiques brought over, sastre accepting the 2nd role etc...

menchov's problems are in his introvert passive personality and, perhaps, clinically speaking, the changing nature of the competition.

has he got the talent to win a gt ? certainly, but when the competition is 'suitable'

has he got the talent to podium in the tour d'france under the strongest possible participation ?

may be, but a top 5 is my assessment of his natural talent limits.

again, the limit is not physical but mental.

 

[movingtarget]

Menchov is younger than Evans and a similar talent except for Evans ability in one day races as well. Menchov has had an off year like Basso. There is no reason he cannot bounce back next year. I actually think Evans is a better rider than he was two years ago. Can't say that about Menchov but at his best he is very hard to beat in grand tours. I still think he can get a high placing in the Vuelta but the stupid problem with his seat slipping was costly.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Menchov had a much better day today. Looked quite good on a finish that doesn't suit him though he can't afford to lose that much more time so will need to stay with Rodriguez in tonights stage to La Cotavilla and then smoke the TT.