Dertie Contador's allergies and his TUEs

[Mrs John Murphy]

I guess you weren't watching in 2004 now were you? Why has the story changed about Dertie's stroke/aneurysm? Funny how at the time EPO was mentioned a lot in relation to the cause of it and now that seems to have been deleted from history in favour of a nice genetic cause. Which also allows him a nice TUE. Double bonus.

You Dertie fanboys are as bad as the Armstrong fanboys.

 

[Willy_Voet]

There is no way of knowing whether he is faking the allergy story or not. I'm not a fan of his, but understand the seriousness of allergies and exercise/racing/etc. In some areas at varying times of the year I just can't ride hard, period. I don't know how to describe it, suffocation is a bit dramatic, but "hard to breathe" doesn't quite do it justice. I've learned to recognize it, back off and deal with it.

Medicine? Well, yes, there is a chance it can be abused. A lot of the drugs are stimulants that's why someone would claim allergies to get a TUE. But I'm not sure they're doing themselves any favors. I found some made me aggressive (okay a good thing for a racer), but I'd end up pushing myself more than I should. That's probably okay for a single day race, but not a GT (okay, hGH could help there, too ). They also can cause irregular heart rate, palpitations, etc.

I'm not a pro, didn't like the side effects, happy to take it easy when I have to. In my experience, I think it's entirely plausible that he has allergies that affect him only during part of the year and that he is legitimately taking something for them. He could also be making **** up. Who knows. In the grand scheme of things, I doubt they help him anymore than 3 cups of coffee and a few caffeine gels.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I don't disagree that if he does have allergies then this makes riding very difficult, but we've seen how the likes of Piepoli, Petacchi and the Uniballer (to name just three) have abused the TUE system. Very hard to prove that someone doesn't have allergies, epilepsy, asthma, (a bit easier with genital warts although I am not sure I'd be volunteering for that bit of verification).

Likewise, it depends on which version of the 2004 incident you believe. You can either believe that his seizure/stroke/aneurysm was the result of his disorder (as he claims), the other version is that the blood clot was the result of EPO thickened blood.

With Contador's history with Saiz, OP, Disco and Astana, you'll have to excuse me if I am a little bit skeptical about his honesty.

 

[craig1985]

Who the **** pays any credence to wikipedia?

 

[Arnout]

I don't disagree that if he does have allergies then this makes riding very difficult, but we've seen how the likes of Piepoli, Petacchi and the Uniballer (to name just three) have abused the TUE system. Very hard to prove that someone doesn't have allergies, epilepsy, asthma, (a bit easier with genital warts although I am not sure I'd be volunteering for that bit of verification).

Likewise, it depends on which version of the 2004 incident you believe. You can either believe that his seizure/stroke/aneurysm was the result of his disorder (as he claims), the other version is that the blood clot was the result of EPO thickened blood.

With Contador's history with Saiz, OP, Disco and Astana, you'll have to excuse me if I am a little bit skeptical about his honesty.

Yep. And his brother who suffered exactly the same problem and is now fully disabled did use EPO for fun when he was a little boy.

What's more, when using EPO you blood thickens, correct. But in race that's not a problem. It becomes a problem when the rider rests and does nothing for some hours (that's why all the 90s boys had to wake up during night). And seriously, in 2004 blood that thick because of EPO usage is out of the question. That was only possible in the era before EPO testing.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Who the **** pays any credence to wikipedia?

Levi Leipheimer for example who is very careful to make sure that no one mentions his failed dope test from 1996.

Arnout - Everything I've read says that the younger brother has cerebral palsy, which is not a genetic disorder, so it would be very unlikely that both should have some form of it. I don't think all of the EPO victims died in their sleep, one died mid-race and another shortly before going for a training ride.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Dertie has been cracking out his 'allergies' excuse again. To go alongside his 'epilepsy' medication (although it is of course one step up from genital warts/**** boil excuses, and the asthmatic sprinters and 'dental problems')

Does anyone know what drugs he can now take for his allergies/epilepsy and their potential benefits/masking agents?

What does a good quality TUE enable you to take that you wouldn't otherwise be allowed to take?

I made a similar thread but got completely shut down. Proves my point I guess.

Anyway, if Lance put his bad days on allergies we would be saying it is an excuse for bad performance. When it's conti's turn to make an excuse we strongly defend him on here.

 

[Race Radio]

While I have no doubt that Contador is doping I doubt his "Hot Sauce" comes in the form of an inhaler......more likely his preparation comes with the assistance of long time Hog needle man Pepe Marti, who is now Contador's "Coach"

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Race Radio - I agree, what was interesting about the Petacchi case was that although he was claiming to be taking it via an inhaler, the test showed that he wasn't. I assume that Dertie can claim to need to take various medications for allergies & epilepsy and then take them as part of a drugs mix. (Didn't Hamilton's Fuentes programme include female pregnancy drugs? so it isn't that unusual for riders to take a cocktail of drugs).

I am wondering to what extent the TUE's can be used to mask a doping programme - if on a cocktail of drugs can you get TUE's to allow you to take all the elements of the programme.

Also, what about the masking role - wasn't Delgado's positive (his kidney medication) a substance which was not a PED but a masking substance for PEDs?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Race Radio - I agree, what was interesting about the Petacchi case was that although he was claiming to be taking it via an inhaler, the test showed that he wasn't. I assume that Dertie can claim to need to take various medications for allergies & epilepsy and then take them as part of a drugs mix. (Didn't Hamilton's Fuentes programme include female pregnancy drugs? so it isn't that unusual for riders to take a cocktail of drugs).

I am wondering to what extent the TUE's can be used to mask a doping programme - if on a cocktail of drugs can you get TUE's to allow you to take all the elements of the programme.

Also, what about the masking role - wasn't Delgado's positive (his kidney medication) a substance which was not a PED but a masking substance for PEDs?

There is no need to mask EPO, HGH, IGF1 and blood transfusions. If done properly, they are fundamentally undetectable.

But to answer your question, there would be no TUE that could work to offset any of these anyways.

 

[ProfTournesol]

every anti-epileptic is performance reducing, not enhancing.

 

[rikdewy]

I guess you weren't watching in 2004 now were you? Why has the story changed about Dertie's stroke/aneurysm? Funny how at the time EPO was mentioned a lot in relation to the cause of it and now that seems to have been deleted from history in favour of a nice genetic cause. Which also allows him a nice TUE. Double bonus.

You Dertie fanboys are as bad as the Armstrong fanboys.

I think that considering the stroke occurred towards the end of the EPO peak, and considering AC's associations, it would be naive to believe that it (EPO) didn't play a role in pushing an otherwise benign pre-existing condition over the edge.

Fanboys will be fanboys... they were born with one glass eye.

 

[rikdewy]

There is no need to mask EPO, HGH, IGF1 and blood transfusions. If done properly, they are fundamentally undetectable.

But to answer your question, there would be no TUE that could work to offset any of these anyways.

Yeah, but TUE's for any supporting drugs eg. bronchodilators, that amplify the effects of the juice you mention definately give the rider the edge over his peers who are on the same "program".

Must be frustrating for some, who then eventually juice up that little bit too much.

 

[Publicus]

Assuming that he is telling the truth about needing epilepsy medicine. No one wants to see a rider having an asthma attack. The point is that riders have been claiming TUE's and the drugs that this allows for illnesses and medical problems that they don't have.

Think about the Uniballer's genital warts/**** boil problem. No one wants to see anyone have **** problems but...

He said allergies not asthma. And the titanium plates they inserted in his skull in 2004 causes the epilepsy so he has to take meds to prevent them. You can see the scar in his scalp (it goes from ear to ear over the top of his head).

 

[Publicus]

I made a similar thread but got completely shut down. Proves my point I guess.

Anyway, if Lance put his bad days on allergies we would be saying it is an excuse for bad performance. When it's conti's turn to make an excuse we strongly defend him on here.

And when it's Cadel's bad days, it's always someone else's fault....

 

[richwagmn]

Like I say - riders claim they have all sorts of problems - that doesn't necessarily make them as severe as they claim. Dertie's story has changed several times.

If Dertie is abusing TUE's then the Hog, Uniballer and Saiz taught him well.

Oldman - yes, although very convenient for Dertie.

What are you after here? The guy had an almost fatal cavernoma. One of the symptoms is seizures. There could very well be lingering symptoms.

Also, as someone who had severe pollen allergies growing up, I can you tell it can kick your ***. And the meds can alleviate the symptoms but I haven't found any that don't have side effects.

Could Bertie be doping. Sure. But I think your line of inquiry here is pretty weak.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Why assume an agenda? Dertie has been going on about his allergies and his epilepsy of late and it got me thinking about TUEs, their abuse, and the use of these drugs.

The story of the 2004 incident has changed since 2004 (since he became famous and after his links to OP) from the EPO linked stroke - to being a genetic condition. A number of people have claimed that this is the same condition that his younger brother has, but this can not be true as the younger brother has cerebral palsy (according to Dertie's own website).

No-one is disputing that he has a plate in his head, or that people have allergies. The question is whether Dertie is abusing the system - claiming epilepsy (relating to the 2004 incident) which he may or may not have, claiming allergies (like Petacchi/Piepoli claiming asthma, Uniballer claiming saddle sores) which he does not have - in order to take drugs which can be performance enhancing, or masking substances.

The other line of questioning is what drugs for what ailment and what are the potential PEDs/masking agents in those drugs.

If all of the things he is claiming for are true and legitimate then it makes his performances all the more impressive - given what people say about how severe pollen allergies are, and how severe epilepsy medication can be. Imagine how good he would be if he had nothing wrong with him at all.

 

[Arnout]

Do you have the link to the article that says Contador uses epilepsy medication?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2...or-to-mark-recovery-from-brain-condition.aspx

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2009/07/alberto-contador-you-may-not-know.html

[...] he often has epileptic fits. Contador takes medication daily to prevent those fits, and pays regular visits to the neurologist.

anti-epilepsy medicines were also part of the cocktail of drugs found by the police at last years TDF

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-France-drug-investigation-after-seizure.html

According to the AFLD, the drug sitagliptin, used by diabetics when injecting insulin, and valpromide, an anti-convulsant prescribed in the treatment of epilepsy and manic depression, featured in a “surprising medicinal arsenal”.

 

[Publicus]

Why assume an agenda? Dertie has been going on about his allergies and his epilepsy of late and it got me thinking about TUEs, their abuse, and the use of these drugs.

The story of the 2004 incident has changed since 2004 (since he became famous and after his links to OP) from the EPO linked stroke - to being a genetic condition. A number of people have claimed that this is the same condition that his younger brother has, but this can not be true as the younger brother has cerebral palsy (according to Dertie's own website).

No-one is disputing that he has a plate in his head, or that people have allergies. The question is whether Dertie is abusing the system - claiming epilepsy (relating to the 2004 incident) which he may or may not have, claiming allergies (like Petacchi/Piepoli claiming asthma, Uniballer claiming saddle sores) which he does not have - in order to take drugs which can be performance enhancing, or masking substances.

The other line of questioning is what drugs for what ailment and what are the potential PEDs/masking agents in those drugs.

If all of the things he is claiming for are true and legitimate then it makes his performances all the more impressive - given what people say about how severe pollen allergies are, and how severe epilepsy medication can be. Imagine how good he would be if he had nothing wrong with him at all.

I don't know if the insertion of titanium plates in the skull can cause epilepsy (titanium cranioplasty), but the surgery can cause seizures and they do prescribe anti-seizure meds, at least according to this article:

http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/pe-craniotomy.htm

Here's a list of drugs offered to treat epilepsy. You can click through the links and decide which one, in addition to suppressing seizures, also is a performance enhancing drugs. My sister has epilepsy so I'm familiar with a couple of drugs on the list (primarily tegretol). Topamax may be one since one of the common side effects is loss of appetite and weight loss (though the other common side effects seem to be far more detrimental to one's overall health as a professional athlete).


http://www.epilepsy.com/EPILEPSY/seizure_medicines

I found another link that spells some of the other side effects of other anti-seizure medication. I don't know if it is any more helpful than the one above, but I am passing it along:

http://www.efwp.org/programs/side_effects.shtml

 

[Sparky the Clown]

I think all TUE's should be disallowed. They are just a coverup for PED use. Cycling should be natural and if some riders overcome certain "ailments" easier than others without TUE's then sobeit.

Besides if he has epilepsy I think it would be good for TV ratings if the potential of him freaking out with a seizure on a climb was a possibility. Viewership would increase waiting for this to happen. Imagine the ad mileage Radioshack and other sponsors would get out of this being splashed all over the news.

 

[theswordsman]

I haven't read through the thread because it's the kind of thread that I hate with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns. I did read a couple of the replies Publicus posted, though, and the quotes to which he replied. I just took five minutes of "any language" Googling to research the "changed his story claim. This is from 3/24/2005, about two months after Alberto returned to cycling and won the Willunga Hill stage of the Tour Down Under.

Alberto Contador (Liberty Seguros-W rth) retained the leader's jersey in the overall standings on the eve of the final time trial, starting and finishing in the factory of the co-sponsor of equipment, hardware assembly company and Worth.

Contador, Madrid and last year the victim of a serious crash in the first stage of the Tour of Asturias which discovered a congenital malformation of an artery, a cerebral cavernoma, which was close to him away from the bike, is only 16, 4 km to reach his first win in a row.

http://www.cadenaser.com/deportes/a...na-catalana/csrcsrpor/20050324csrcsrdep_4/Tes

I'm sure I could find any number of other references back around that time, but I believe "Agencies" means it was syndicated. When exactly did the story change take place? It was only November 27, 2004 that he knew he would be able to ride again.

A few days after the Aranda lunch, during his last race with Liberty, Contador suffered an epileptic fit. The internal scar left by his surgery means a part of his brain is hypersensitive, and as a result, he is prone to having epileptic fits. Contador takes medication daily to prevent those fits, and pays regular visits to the neurologist. That is another handicap for him, a hurdle in his career he doesn't like to talk about. "It doesn't make sense to talk about that," he says. "All I can say is that Alberto is obsessed about not doing anything strange with his health," says Pedro Celaya, the doctor at his current team, Discovery. "He still remembers hospital well."

http://cyclingfansanonymous.blogspot.com/2008/08/who-is-real-contador.html

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Well done, you can use the bold and font feature. Neither Contador nor his team are officially going to say that it was caused by EPO now are they, nor are they going to say that he takes various meds for performance reasons.

 

[sartoris]

... blah blah blah ...

Man (or woman), you should get a life. I can't understand how anyone, man, woman or in-between can find the time to write as much as you do about this topic. If you're being paid for all your research, that would be a reasonable explanation. Otherwise, I think you have a serious problem.

 

[Angliru]

Assuming that he is telling the truth about needing epilepsy medicine. No one wants to see a rider having an asthma attack. The point is that riders have been claiming TUE's and the drugs that this allows for illnesses and medical problems that they don't have.

Think about the Uniballer's genital warts/**** boil problem. No one wants to see anyone have **** problems but...

So the fact that there is a risk of a certain affliction in his family that is evidenced by his younger brother and by Contador's cerebral hemmorage (sp)
and the medication and regular check ups that are necessary to monitor his condition leads you to believe that he must be on the juice using the TUE as his cover?