Dirtiest Rider

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Dec 13, 2012
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Based on some of the guys iv seen over the past number of years I would have to go for (outside of Lance obviously),

Hamilton - The lengths he went to in his book seem pretty extreme

Rasmussen - Same again, what wasn't he taking.

Di Luca - Again on everything under the sun and so stupid the way he went about it.

Ricco - Self administered blood transfusion.

Vino - Serial doper, no remorse shown for 2007.

If you look at some of the guys that have been caught over the year's their method's just seem to have been so stupid, ie Ricco and Di Luca. The whole doping problem during the 2000's just got so out of hand that rider's clearly just doped themselves to the gills without fear or even remorse. I hope today that the peleton is not suffering the same kind of pandemic as this past era. I recognize that you will always have guys out there in all sports that will do whatever is necessary to get the competitive edge but it is so stupid and damaging to the sport to see guys still doing this and getting caught. The fact that we don't see guys powering up climbs from the bottom at massive speeds any longer such as Postal in their prime (which was extremely impressive all the same) would give you hope that there is change or at least guys are not doping to the same levels. I still think there are certain guy's / teams / performances that are questionable.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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Since 2010 it has been suggested that the peloton has gone through a rapid change with the rise of a new generation of 'clean' rider that is now able to compete at the top level and challenge for overall honours at the Grand Tours.

Since 2010 a new generation of clean riders has emerged. But in the 15 Grand Tours since 2010 8 of the winners have had questionable pasts. Guys such as Nibali, Quintana, Dan Martin, Van Gardaren, Pinot, Bardet are seen as the future of the sport and have performed extremely well in the past number of years.

I feel there are a number of performances over the past few years that raise question mark. Froome on Ventoux, Majka's win's last year, Pozzovivo's 2013 Veutla time trial.

What other performance's in recent time's would people have doubts on?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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hayzer114 said:
Guys such as Nibali, Quintana, Dan Martin, Van Gardaren, Pinot, Bardet are seen as the future of the sport and have performed extremely well in the past number of years.
they are full ret@rd
 
I assume that Riis, Pantani and Armstrong are the obvious ones.

But what about Moreno Argentin? That guy should just have used every form of doping during his career: blood transfusions, EPO, hormones, testosterone, caffeine, insuline, haemoglobine etc. Just went from old school 80s program straight into the heavy 90s EPO game!

I agree with the other notable mentions including Rasmussen ("expert on his own body), Di Luca (cretino), the Kelme boys a.s.o

But Riis is just insane. That guy got trombosis injections and must be awakened at night to prevent a cardiac infarction!

Armstrong is probably the biggest sports fraud ever, pushing everyone in his environment to dope.

Pantani, although mentally broken, totally destroyed himself as a human with doping, drugs and alcohol! :(
 
Rasmussen has to be up there, even during his suspension he kept using Matschiners transfusion machine and had a supply of like 20 bloodbags to once again conquer the cycling world on his return.
 
Dirtiest rider has to be Virenque.

He set the example for others to follow.

Denied, of course, even when the team had been caught red-handed.

Released a book denying it (My Truth).

In his book Breaking the Chain, Will Voet explained that Virenque was so dirty he would drink urine if you told him it would provide a benefit.

And, of course, true to form, Verdruggen let him go onto his record number of polka dots.

Dave.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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burning said:
Does it matter?
good question.
"dirty" may not mean more than "incapable of covering one's tracks".
Give me ten Vinos, Armstrongs, Contadors, Rasmussens for one Hesjedal/Wiggins/Dan Martin anytime.
 
classicomano said:
Rasmussen has to be up there, even during his suspension he kept using Matschiners transfusion machine and had a supply of like 20 bloodbags to once again conquer the cycling world on his return.
I'm sure Vino, Valverde, Contador, Basso etc. did nothing to prepare their comebacks while they were banned :eek:
 
classicomano said:
Im sure they had a stack of 20 bloodbags at the ready.
Because that's what Rasmussen had :eek:

I still don't get the argument that withdrawing a lot of blood while you are banned is making you the dirtiest. I would have thought that it would be what you took and in what quantities that would qualify you for that.

Other than the Giro '07, he only used BBs for the Tour (four times), so I'm quite sure that several riders out there have used far, far more BBs over their careers.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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staubsauger said:
I assume that Riis, Pantani and Armstrong are the obvious ones.

But what about Moreno Argentin? That guy should just have used every form of doping during his career: blood transfusions, EPO, hormones, testosterone, caffeine, insuline, haemoglobine etc. Just went from old school 80s program straight into the heavy 90s EPO game!

I agree with the other notable mentions including Rasmussen ("expert on his own body), Di Luca (cretino), the Kelme boys a.s.o

But Riis is just insane. That guy got trombosis injections and must be awakened at night to prevent a cardiac infarction!

Armstrong is probably the biggest sports fraud ever, pushing everyone in his environment to dope.

Pantani, although mentally broken, totally destroyed himself as a human with doping, drugs and alcohol! :(
You clod name the whole Gewiss-Ballan team, for example Piotr Ugrumov went from 32.8% to 60 or Berzin who had a wiggins like tranformation from track guy to GC winner before it was cool, he went full genius in the 44km long ITT in the 1994 Giro.
1994 Gewiss-Ballan was just crazy.
 
Netserk said:
Because that's what Rasmussen had :eek:

I still don't get the argument that withdrawing a lot of blood while you are banned is making you the dirtiest. I would have thought that it would be what you took and in what quantities that would qualify you for that.

Other than the Giro '07, he only used BBs for the Tour (four times), so I'm quite sure that several riders out there have used far, far more BBs over their careers.
Yeah sorry it was 13, god knows how many more he wouldve gotten if he didnt have to flush them all down the river.

And yeah others used more but Rasmussen never got the chance to catch up, his intentions were good though, he just caught some bad luck and never got to show the world he is the best and most suicidal doper.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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your caveat: acting "remorse" is simulcra remorse
see: Oprah
see: Lance on Oprah.

see: Hamilton
see: LAndis.

I would argue, Vino, and Armstrong, are not on their lonesome. The only remorse you see is the prone martyr for the tv and acting, aka, not remorseful.

therefore, none of the pros found positive, and guilty have been genuinely remorseful. None of them are.

why do you need remorse? Why does one need to "act" remorseful, when again, this is a damn lie. I wont hold any rider to acting remorseful. They did what they had to do, they may not have been so ethical, the sport was not ethical, the administration was not ethical, and they wanted to be a pro. I wont sacrifice them cos they were all too human.
hayzer114 said:
Based on some of the guys iv seen over the past number of years I would have to go for (outside of Lance obviously),

Hamilton - The lengths he went to in his book seem pretty extreme

Rasmussen - Same again, what wasn't he taking.

Di Luca - Again on everything under the sun and so stupid the way he went about it.

Ricco - Self administered blood transfusion.

Vino - Serial doper, no remorse shown for 2007.

If you look at some of the guys that have been caught over the year's their method's just seem to have been so stupid, ie Ricco and Di Luca. The whole doping problem during the 2000's just got so out of hand that rider's clearly just doped themselves to the gills without fear or even remorse. I hope today that the peleton is not suffering the same kind of pandemic as this past era. I recognize that you will always have guys out there in all sports that will do whatever is necessary to get the competitive edge but it is so stupid and damaging to the sport to see guys still doing this and getting caught. The fact that we don't see guys powering up climbs from the bottom at massive speeds any longer such as Postal in their prime (which was extremely impressive all the same) would give you hope that there is change or at least guys are not doping to the same levels. I still think there are certain guy's / teams / performances that are questionable.
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,856
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hayzer114 said:
Since 2010 it has been suggested that the peloton has gone through a rapid change with the rise of a new generation of 'clean' rider that is now able to compete at the top level and challenge for overall honours at the Grand Tours.

Since 2010 a new generation of clean riders has emerged. But in the 15 Grand Tours since 2010 8 of the winners have had questionable pasts. Guys such as Nibali, Quintana, Dan Martin, Van Gardaren, Pinot, Bardet are seen as the future of the sport and have performed extremely well in the past number of years.

I feel there are a number of performances over the past few years that raise question mark. Froome on Ventoux, Majka's win's last year, Pozzovivo's 2013 Veutla time trial.

What other performance's in recent time's would people have doubts on?
wait, was it the 2006 memo? or the 2010 new and clean generation?

can you still express your inner AICAR and be part of either clique? Hog? can you?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sniper said:
good question.
"dirty" may not mean more than "incapable of covering one's tracks".
Give me ten Vinos, Armstrongs, Contadors, Rasmussens for one Hesjedal/Wiggins/Dan Martin anytime.
how about a million Ricky Riccio's before one other person, clean or doped, in the peloton.

ricky riccio ftw!

his teenage selfies are just the icing on the cake /no homo
 
Mar 13, 2009
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classicomano said:
Rasmussen has to be up there, even during his suspension he kept using Matschiners transfusion machine and had a supply of like 20 bloodbags to once again conquer the cycling world on his return.
Netserk said:
I'm sure Vino, Valverde, Contador, Basso etc. did nothing to prepare their comebacks while they were banned :eek:
burning said:
Vino did really well in 2010 but others struggled to perform at their former level in their comeback year. I think the preparation is not much different compared to their usual program.


this. never doped, but never clean. the quote from the Cohen brahs film Being Lewin Davis
 
Oct 16, 2010
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blackcat said:
how about a million Ricky Riccio's before one other person, clean or doped, in the peloton.

ricky riccio ftw!

his teenage selfies are just the icing on the cake /no homo
True story:D
ten Riccio's for one hesjedal
 
Jun 5, 2014
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Mayomaniac said:
You clod name the whole Gewiss-Ballan team, for example Piotr Ugrumov went from 32.8% to 60 or Berzin who had a wiggins like tranformation from track guy to GC winner before it was cool, he went full genius in the 44km long ITT in the 1994 Giro.
1994 Gewiss-Ballan was just crazy.
Yeah, they were crazy. That jump from 32.8 % to 60% doesn't mean Ugrumov has a low natural HCT. The HCT goes down to 32-33 because he pumped himself with sh!tloads of EPO ...then instead of tapering it down at the end of the season....stop. What happens? Body's natural production Erythropoetin is completely wasted. Suppression of new reticulozytes etc etc. 32.8 is almost as dangerours as 60 % when your natural HCT is around 42-43.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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ChewbaccaD said:
Nina Hartley
I'm not sure that I haven't just read the best post, ever. Not just on this thread, or on CN, but perhaps best ever on the interwebs.

Which is even more amazing, because you have historically annoyed the living crap out of me, Chewie.

Chapeau.
 

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