Does Andy need to drop Frank if he wants to win the Tour?

[jamfra67]

Andy needs to improve TTing before thinking about that


On a Schleck-related note, during the podium, Liggett & Sherwen were discussing whether they would be going to Radio Shack

Whats that about? trying to isolate the contanders for next year for the benefit of Armstrong. I doubt it will happen the guy has his own aspiration and would not want to go through what Contador went through. Why would he subordinate himself to Lance when he just finished second. Trying to buy away the competition. Grabbing at straws

 

[scribe]

Lance cannot beat Contador. Andy could possibly beat Contador. Andy with 4 super-domestiques around him definitely would lay down a threat. Lance's legacy is protected by tripping up Contador a year or two.

 

[jamfra67]

I don't think it'll happen next year. Armstrong did well enough after several years off that it looks like he wants to keep training and come back as a team leader next year. Taking the Schlecks wouldn't work there. Though as well as LA did and despite his comment of being an "old fart", he doesn't seem to want to acknowledge the impact being nearly 38 years old must have had. Next year of course he will be almost 39 at the Tour.

When he said his performance was a little disappointing in the last time trial because of the tough mountain stage the day before, I immediately thought, yeah, that's one thing that happens as you get older. The recovery time gets longer. The much younger Contador was able to go from that brutal mountain stage to winning the time trial the next day. A younger Armstrong did similar feats.

At any rate, I expect next year LA will ride as a team leader. Then he'll probably retire again. If Radio Shack looks like a good deal at that point, I wouldn't be surprised if he continued in some advisory capacity and tried to bring more top riders to the team. The Schlecks? Who knows.

It can only work when Lance's ego subsides and he faces reality. Not the ideal moment for the schlecks to make such a move. With Andy's performance at this tour there is no reason why he should subordinate his aspiration for anyone right now. He is young and only get better. he needs to surround himself with riders to help him win the big tours. He keeps improving in the time tials and we can expect some exciting duels between himself on contador. The New World Order has arrived

 

[TourLeTour]

Not at all. Frank climbs superbly, and will be a great help to Andy. They should stay on the same team. When Andy needs to attack on his own (with a chance of improving his position, which wasn't going to happen on Ventoux), he does. They should stick together. I would have loved Frank to get away yesterday so they could have been on the podium together today...

 

[mherm79]

i don't that Lance will be riding for the TdF win next year IF he can't sign a team mate capable of winning. he states his goal is to build a team capable of winning the TdF for years to come and that obviously wont mean him winning.

Of course I'm not sure who he could sign that will be able to push for a podium, unless of course he gets Cadel...but even then i think Cadels climbing isn't where it would need to be.

 

[jamfra67]

Lance cannot beat Contador. Andy could possibly beat Contador. Andy with 4 super-domestiques around him definitely would lay down a threat. Lance's legacy is protected by tripping up Contador a year or two.

LOL You have finally conceded and exposed your motive. Strangely enough i agree with you that Lance should be one of And's superdomestique. It will make for healthy competition. However my concern is will Lance face the reality and subordinate himself to helping Andy win? If indeed he does such a thing it will go long way in repairing the bad perception he has created of himself this year. Lance should try a shot at the races he neglected during his years focussing on the tour. He has a shot at redeeming himself of not being considered the rider whose main focus was only the tour de france.

 

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LOL You have finally conceded and exposed your motive. Strangely enough i agree with you that Lance should be one of And's superdomestique. It will make for healthy competition. However my concern is will Lance face the reality and subordinate himself to helping Andy win? If indeed he does such a thing it will go long way in repairing the bad perception he has created of himself this year. Lance should try a shot at the races he neglected during his years focussing on the tour. He has a shot at redeeming himself of not being considered the rider whose main focus was only the tour de france.

Hey. It is a tactical move, which might prove Contador's undoing. That and some luck are the only things will beat Contador for the next few years. Lance should know that age will not allow him to follow the mountain attacks while laying down the gauntlet in the TT in the 3rd week of the tour.

 

[rick bensco]

Are you kidding! Andy is inspired by his brother. His brother gave more then humanly possible for him and he for Frank. That devotion only comes with love of family. All of you only child syndrome people need to see what your missing. There is no bond greater then love of family. When all the chips are down who can you truly count on? When your broken and can't peddle another stroke who can fire you up? Some one who can go home and tell MOM and DAD how you were crying but pulled it through. Brothers will give when it really matters. Teammate come and go but family is forever.

 

[jamfra67]

Hey. It is a tactical move, which might prove Contador's undoing. That and some luck are the only things will beat Contador for the next few years. Lance should know that age will not allow him to follow the mountain attacks while laying down the gauntlet in the TT in the 3rd week of the tour.

Fair game,however Andy's going to have to work hard on his time trialing. So the motive is to undo Contador right? That will be difficult but possible nonetherless. Thats what i want to see a serious battle. Not some game on mount ventoux which did not live up to expectation because of internal politics and the battle for 3rd place. As the badger said the one who smashes the pedal harder should come out on top. That was not the case at mount ventoux.

 

[egtalbot]

Of course he shouldn't. I just don't get this whole line of reasoning. When exactly did he wait for Frank at a time when he had a shot at making up needed time on Contador? Ventoux was it, and he wasn't gonna make up 4 minutes - I'd be shocked if he'd have beaten Contador at all.

I don't know, I think all the Lance/AC drama has got people looking for conflict where it doesn't exist. Everything Andy and Frank did made sense, even if Andy wasn't strong enough to ever drop Contador and Frank couldn't gap Lance and Wiggins on Ventoux. And there can be little doubt that Frank's wednesday ride to help Andy cost him in the TT and on Ventoux.

No way would I separate these two riders. Andy may very well win the Tour one day and having the ultimate super-domestique whom you've known all your life is a tremendous advantage.

 

[TRDean]

Are you kidding! Andy is inspired by his brother. His brother gave more then humanly possible for him and he for Frank. That devotion only comes with love of family. All of you only child syndrome people need to see what your missing. There is no bond greater then love of family. When all the chips are down who can you truly count on? When your broken and can't peddle another stroke who can fire you up? Some one who can go home and tell MOM and DAD how you were crying but pulled it through. Brothers will give when it really matters. Teammate come and go but family is forever.

Great post...I couldn't agree more. I think Andy and Frank get a lot of strength from each other, which would show if they were not on the same team. I hope they stay at Saxo, which as a team seems very family like in the way the riders get along.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I think everyone who likes the Brothers (how could anyone not like them?) will concede that Andy has the greater potential to win a Tour, so that's really beyond discussion.

It just occurred to me that a situation might well arise, where Andy might have to take such a decision. I'd love him to win with Frank's help and agree that blood is thicker than whatever else. It would be a true fairy tale if they could do it together. I just wondered what others thought....because I think a time might come where Andy will have to sit down and make a decision on a scenario like this. I wouldn't want him to race elsewhere without Frank, but that might have to happen if he's to win a Tour.

 

[Futuroscope]

A serious question - should blood be thicker than anything else or, as a professional wanting to achieve the highest goal possible in your sport, should you consider riding in a team that doesn't include your brother?

I'm not trying to split them up, but clearly Andy has a great deal more potential to win a Tour. What might have happened on the Ventoux if he hadn't waited for Frank so often? If Andy gets a better shot in a team without his brother, should he take it?

My view is that I think AS has immense potential if he can improve his tt a bit more. I really like the boy and I'd like to see him win a Tour, so I'd like him to do whatever it takes that will give him the best chance of doing so.

Discuss.

andy doesn't need to drop frank, but he needs to think more about himself if he really wants to win the tour.

also i don't think andy could have beaten contador on mount ventoux.

 

[Jayarbie]

I think everyone who likes the Brothers (how could anyone not like them?) will concede that Andy has the greater potential to win a Tour, so that's really beyond discussion.

It just occurred to me that a situation might well arise, where Andy might have to take such a decision. I'd love him to win with Frank's help and agree that blood is thicker than whatever else. It would be a true fairy tale if they could do it together. I just wondered what others thought....because I think a time might come where Andy will have to sit down and make a decision on a scenario like this. I wouldn't want him to race elsewhere without Frank, but that might have to happen if he's to win a Tour.

Don't worry, eventually one of them will be caught doping and then have to go to Rock Racing. That's when they will be split up.

 

[Mainerider]

I think they can work well together on the same team. However, Frank just does not have the legs to be a GC contender in a grand tour, which I think he'll acknowledge on his own and eventually commit himself to being a super-domestique for Andy.

 

[Sheltowee]

Whats that about? trying to isolate the contanders for next year for the benefit of Armstrong. I doubt it will happen the guy has his own aspiration and would not want to go through what Contador went through. Why would he subordinate himself to Lance when he just finished second. Trying to buy away the competition. Grabbing at straws

Armstrong can lay down some serious hate. If Contador keeps flipping off at the mouth, I imagine the pot will be bubbling for Armstrong soon. I've heard throughout this tour that Johan was interested in getting A Schleck for his new team, as everyone knew he was done with Astana. If it takes buying both the Schlecks to beat Contador they will do that. Armstrong will do whatever it takes to defeat Contador even if it means him not winning #8.

 

[scribe]

Armstrong will do whatever it takes to defeat Contador even if it means him not winning #8.

Absolutely, this is probably a factor in Bruyneel following Lance to the new sponsor. There is surely a realization that they need to hire an ace to lead the team for a win over Contador.

All this is about Lance's legacy. Look at the way Hinault and Lemond squawk to the press so frequently to cast dispersions on another champion's accomplishments. They are all cut from the same stone.

 

[Jayarbie]

Armstrong can lay down some serious hate. If Contador keeps flipping off at the mouth, I imagine the pot will be bubbling for Armstrong soon. I've heard throughout this tour that Johan was interested in getting A Schleck for his new team, as everyone knew he was done with Astana. If it takes buying both the Schlecks to beat Contador they will do that. Armstrong will do whatever it takes to defeat Contador even if it means him not winning #8.

I really doubt this. Lance wants to win the Tour HIMSELF. If there's one thing I've learned about Lance in watching his career for the last 15 years (and just this past Tour as well), it's that HE wants to win everything and believes that he can and should win everything he enters. I would be shocked if he built Team Rat Shack around a different leader for the Tour. He'll build it around himself with the best riders he can find to fit the roles he needs.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I really doubt this. Lance wants to win the Tour HIMSELF. If there's one thing I've learned about Lance in watching his career for the last 15 years (and just this past Tour as well), it's that HE wants to win everything and believes that he can and should win everything he enters. I would be shocked if he built Team Rat Shack around a different leader for the Tour. He'll build it around himself with the best riders he can find to fit the roles he needs.

Totally agree. Can't imagine for a moment that he's putting together a team so someone else can beat AC. He wants to win. What I can imagine is some kind of deal whereby the Brothers and whomever else LA thinks he needs 'help' him to an 8th win, after which he (finally) retires for good.

 

[thehog]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2...-outlines-season-plans-and-blasts-Sastre.aspx

 

[richwagmn]

Andy needs to improve TTing before thinking about that


On a Schleck-related note, during the podium, Liggett & Sherwen were discussing whether they would be going to Radio Shack

Ah yes. That was after Ligget pointed to his head in the pre-race show and said neither Andy or Alberto have the mental faculties to beat LA next year. Curiously, they redid that take for the evening show.

Liggett's an idiot.

 

[yakko!]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2...-outlines-season-plans-and-blasts-Sastre.aspx

nice read...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Who would support Andy near an end of a mountain stage if frank wasn't there? I don't think FC could. Frank is more willing to bury himself because he is working for his brother.

 

[Anonymous]

IMO, Andy needs Frank and Frank needs Andy. These two work together so well, no other teammate will give up his chances (Franks) for their younger team leader (Andy). The Ventoux was just Andy trying to get Frank onto the podium, so Andy sacrificed a shot at a stage win.

I think Frank knows (or at least should have realised) that he is not a better climber than Andy, and he is certainly not a better TT rider, so Andy is clearly numero uno. I think stage 17 was awesome, Frank buried himself, and Andy (and AC) gave him the stage. This is the perfect setup for the tour, one schleck for stage wins/super mountain domestique, the other for the GC win/podium.

On a side note, I think Frank should ride the Giro this year. Such a climbers course, and the team TT and mountain TT suit him well. He will never win the TDF, but when their is a GT so well formulated for climbers he should capitalise on this and try and at least get a Giro podium under his belt.

 

[hfer07]

Andy simply doesn't need to do that anymore-right now, is absolutely clear who's the strongest & has a more promising future ahead, between the two of them. Frank actually could get more freedom to win stages or classics & work for Andy in the Tour.
the fact that they won't ride in different teams, doesn't compromise Andy's ambitions or race results at all. Aside from that- I'd love to see him winning the tour one day and fulfilling his goals.-Andy is a class act and so his Brother Frank!!