Does sportsmanship/etiquette have a place in modern sports?

[Roadrage]

What happened today got me thinking about sports in general. I'm old enough to remember when , say Formula 1 was a "gentleman's" sport. Teammates were just that. They were,more often than not, friends who helped each other . Drivers on rival teams would go on holiday together. Then along came drivers like Senna and Schumacher who made "win at all costs" the thing to do. The sad thing is, both were gifted enough to have won with honor.
I'm nearing Geezer status and it saddens me to see a shift to the "screw the other guy" mentality. Is there still a place for respecting your opposition? Any other sports been ruined? Is sport merely reflecting an overall decline in civilization?

 

[lstomsl]

Fair play in cycling

I get the idea that cyclists want to be seen as playing fair, going mano a mano on the climbs and not taking advantage of a competitors bad luck. Of seeing who is the best man on the bike not the luckiest man in the race.

I understand it is classless to attack while a competitor is taking a ****, it happens to everyone. I understand about not attacking when someone gets a flat, which is pretty much a random occurence. That being said it is difficult to understand where one draws the line.

Lance famously waited for Jan after he crashed on a descent, but Jan crashed while descending by himself, he just took a corner too wide. This wasn't bad luck, it was bad riding. Descending is part of the race, so why did Lance wait? Was lance being a good sport? Was he trying to mind f@#k Jam? He did have several minutes advantage on him at the time if I remember correctly. Was lance being fair when he played ill during the famous "Look" incident to trick Telekom into setting the pace? Was Jan playing fair by sending his team to the front when Lance seemed to be in a bad spot? Was Lance being fair when Postal spent millions of dollars building the most aerodynamic TT bike possible? A bike that other teams could never afford? Was Lance playing fair when he built a team of super-domestiques to keep his nose out of the wind for all but a few minutes of every tour? Was Lance being fair when he hired the best coaches and "doctors"? WHen he insisted on having the entire team built around him? WHen he rode a shorter season than everyone else? When he did literaly everything in his power to give him an advantage over everyone else? Was he being fair when he attacked Jan after Jan waited for him after his crash on luz-ardiden?

Cycling is more than mano o mano every day. It is a team sport played on open roads and sometimes things happen that are simply bad luck (like train crossings in Paris-Roubaix) this is part of the beauty of the sport. If the only thing that mattered was who was the strongest on the last climb of a few stages, why not make everyone ride identical bikes and simply do 21 days of mountain time trials? That would truly show which rider could generate the best power to weight ratio but how boring would it be? Cycling is much more than that.

Cycling is the only sport I know of in which competitors MUST cooperate with each other in orderto win at times. That is what makes it a beautiful sport to watch, it also adds an incredible amount of drama and psychology. Todays incident was simply a manifestation of that. Maybe bertie should have waited but it would suck if everyone always waited until the last climb. The possibility that Andy's anger will let him pull of something special tomorrow ala Stage 16 of 2006 will keep us all on the edge of our seats. Contador clearly fears that, the real reason behind his you tube apology. Tomorrow will be an inteesting day....

 

[pedaling squares]

I really think far too much is being made of this.

 

[lstomsl]

cycling=wrestling????

Maybe professional cycling should go the way of professional wrestling with pre-determined good guys who play fair and bad guys who attack all the time. Maybe we need scripted "drama", with riders changing sides occasionally.

It's not far from that right now as it is.......

From the hero cancer survivor vs. the east german Tourminator in 1999 to Pharmstrong vs the loveable but troubled Jan in 2005.....

 

[Steel4Ever]

You don't need to watch sports to see the overall decline in civilization.

 

[Boeing]

Bike Racing isn't a Moral question.

 

[Anonymous]

Bike Racing isn't a Moral question.

Atleast not where Albero Contador is concerned.

 

[brianf7]

There are no rules that stop Saxo Bank from carving up the feild on the last day if it down to a few seconds. we have seen it with the green so why not yellow.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

no it doesn't asskissing belongs in politics.

 

[SpartacusRox]

I get the idea that cyclists want to be seen as playing fair, going mano a mano on the climbs and not taking advantage of a competitors bad luck. Of seeing who is the best man on the bike not the luckiest man in the race.

I understand it is classless to attack while a competitor is taking a ****, it happens to everyone. I understand about not attacking when someone gets a flat, which is pretty much a random occurence. That being said it is difficult to understand where one draws the line.

Lance famously waited for Jan after he crashed on a descent, but Jan crashed while descending by himself, he just took a corner too wide. This wasn't bad luck, it was bad riding. Descending is part of the race, so why did Lance wait? Was lance being a good sport? Was he trying to mind f@#k Jam? He did have several minutes advantage on him at the time if I remember correctly. Was lance being fair when he played ill during the famous "Look" incident to trick Telekom into setting the pace? Was Jan playing fair by sending his team to the front when Lance seemed to be in a bad spot? Was Lance being fair when Postal spent millions of dollars building the most aerodynamic TT bike possible? A bike that other teams could never afford? Was Lance playing fair when he built a team of super-domestiques to keep his nose out of the wind for all but a few minutes of every tour? Was Lance being fair when he hired the best coaches and "doctors"? WHen he insisted on having the entire team built around him? WHen he rode a shorter season than everyone else? When he did literaly everything in his power to give him an advantage over everyone else? Was he being fair when he attacked Jan after Jan waited for him after his crash on luz-ardiden?

Cycling is more than mano o mano every day. It is a team sport played on open roads and sometimes things happen that are simply bad luck (like train crossings in Paris-Roubaix) this is part of the beauty of the sport. If the only thing that mattered was who was the strongest on the last climb of a few stages, why not make everyone ride identical bikes and simply do 21 days of mountain time trials? That would truly show which rider could generate the best power to weight ratio but how boring would it be? Cycling is much more than that.

Cycling is the only sport I know of in which competitors MUST cooperate with each other in orderto win at times. That is what makes it a beautiful sport to watch, it also adds an incredible amount of drama and psychology. Todays incident was simply a manifestation of that. Maybe bertie should have waited but it would suck if everyone always waited until the last climb. The possibility that Andy's anger will let him pull of something special tomorrow ala Stage 16 of 2006 will keep us all on the edge of our seats. Contador clearly fears that, the real reason behind his you tube apology. Tomorrow will be an inteesting day....

Lance waited because he is a gentleman of the sport, AC is obviously not, hence his whiny half baked apology done because he probably doesn't want 1 million spectators booing at him for the next few days. To late Pistolero!

Also, your comment regarding lance attacking Jan after Jan waited for him is nonsensical. The race was back on then and so each of them was free to fly if they were able to. Lance was, Jan wasn't. As to the budget issues you raise, maybe you should check out the Telecom/T Mobile budgets. Gaining good sponsorship is hardly unfair sportsmanship.

Contador is a weasel. You know it, I know it and tomorrow thousands of others will hopefully let him know it.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Lance waited because he is a gentleman of the sport, AC is obviously not, hence his whiny half baked apology done because he probably doesn't want 1 million spectators booing at him for the next few days. To late Pistolero!

Also, your comment regarding lance attacking Jan after Jan waited for him is nonsensical. The race was back on then and so each of them was free to fly if they were able to. Lance was, Jan wasn't. As to the budget issues you raise, maybe you should check out the Telecom/T Mobile budgets. Gaining good sponsorship is hardly unfair sportsmanship.

Contador is a weasel. You know it, I know it and tomorrow thousands of others will hopefully let him know it.

 

[David Suro]

In boxing, a fighter is not penalized until his third low blow. So, acccording to the rules, it would make sense for a fighter to punch his opponent below the belt twice in the first round. There would be no penalty and the opponent would likely be a little less agile for the rest of the fight.

However, it is understood that there are certain agreements in sport that are not part of the official rules.

I do not fault Contador, Menchov, Sanches, and the other guy for continuing to ride hard. They did not break a rule. However, it would have been admirable for them to agree to chill out for half a minute to let Schleck rejoin.

Keeping in mind that they are earning paychecks for their performances, I do not hold a grudge against them for choosing to do what they are paid to do (get results) instead of waiting around for another rider.

 

[Fester]

Look at Armstrong and Ullrich and their various acts of "sportsmanship" it's nothing but playing to the cameras, while the go back to their hotel rooms on the rest day and infuse something or other.

It's more honest to attack in such a moment than play it phony and wait.

 

[Hmmmmm]

I don't recall Formula 1 being a "gentleman's sport". Rivalries existed in the past just as they do today. Don't let the "good old days" fog your brain (not you in particular but anyone in general )- they were not all that good.

I believe sportsmanship and etiquette is taken too far. Arm chair quarterbacks and those in the position to analyze after the fact make way to big of a deal out of things that are not that big of a deal. Competition is competitive and should remain that way. Not this type of crap....

Oh, by the way, I'm sorry that I'm pedaling too fast for you to keep up. Let me slow down some so you can keep up and it will make the race more interesting. If I get tired later on in the race I expect you will do the same for me.

What? So and so flatted and is 2 minutes back? Everybody stop! We have to wait! Oh, here he comes. Ok, let's go.

Damn, he threw his chain again. You guys keep going, but at a slower pace. I'm gonna turn around and head back down the mountain to find out if he is alright. We'll both catch back up with you when things are sorted out. Ciao!

Anyways, I will now climb off of my soapbox.

 

[delbified]

contador was entitled to push on but he's not entitled to applause if he wins in Paris. to those who say there's no room for sportsmanship, feel free to book a ticket to Paris to cheer him on the podium because he'll need you there.

 

[Four Winds]

There are not many "gentlemens sports" left. Golf has that reputation for honesty? And quite frankly I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than watch/play golf.

 

[lstomsl]

Its all psychology.....

Its all psychology folks. Lance waiting for Jan when he was several minutes ahead said he wasn't afraid of him. Lance gifting Pantani a summit finish said he wasn't afraid of him. He was teasing them and getting in their heads.

Contador attacking Schlek in this situation says he is afraid of him. Shleck gaining 28 seconds on AC, SS, and DM in ONE kilometer says Contador is right to be afraid. The Tourmalet is a monster climb. If Schleck can find the fear and anger to put 28 seconds per km on Contador on Thursday he may finish 10 minutes ahead.... Contadors apology is designed to diffuse Schlecks anger AFTER he took the time. Riis's half-hearted comments are designed to motivate Schleck. Andy's loss of public anger as the evening ran on is designed to put Contador off his guard.

Its all psychology. Its what makes the sport fun. Cant wait until Thursday.

 

[movingtarget]

Saxo Bank have been whining since the start. Cobbles should not be in the race, neutralise the stage blah blah. Did anyone wait for Evans and Armstrong when they fell ? No .........where was Saxo Bank's sense of fair play then ?

Contador did not do anything wrong. It's a race and it was Schleck's turn to have some bad luck. Get over it. He had already lost the race anyway unless Contador loses 90 seconds or more on the Tourmalet.

 

[pastadoc]

Pave?

Andy has no reason to complain...he sucked Cancellera's wheel to get time when Contador and others crashed on the pave. Contador did not whine. Andy attacked and made a bad shift however if any of you have raced you would know that Shelck and Contador have been playing with each other. When Andy attacked yesterday he slowed and Alberto took off with focus. I hear no one complaining about the others or about Saxo Banks tactics previously. I agree, get over it. As Lance said the race was on and in case no one is paying attention there are at least 5 in contention for the podium. This is a serious race this year. I think nothing that was done was out of place.

 

[indurain666]

Another stupid "I hate AC" thread in disguise by some bitter LA fanboy

Viva Alberto!!!

 

[Villaba]

Lance waited because he is a gentleman of the sport, AC is obviously not, hence his whiny half baked apology done because he probably doesn't want 1 million spectators booing at him for the next few days. To late Pistolero!

Also, your comment regarding lance attacking Jan after Jan waited for him is nonsensical. The race was back on then and so each of them was free to fly if they were able to. Lance was, Jan wasn't. As to the budget issues you raise, maybe you should check out the Telecom/T Mobile budgets. Gaining good sponsorship is hardly unfair sportsmanship.

Contador is a weasel. You know it, I know it and tomorrow thousands of others will hopefully let him know it.

Yeah, this is how Armstrong waited Beloki, his rival in 2003, a true act of class, Lance, running like a true sportive gentleman after Beloki had a horrible crash in front of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr89ku-K2WU&feature=player_embedded

 

[Roadrage]

Another stupid "I hate AC" thread in disguise by some bitter LA fanboy

Viva Alberto!!!

LOL! I posted this topic in the cafe forum in an attempt to keep it from becoming an AC vs. AS topic. Go back and read my original post and the questions posed there.

 

[Roadrage]

You don't need to watch sports to see the overall decline in civilization.

Amen to that!

 

[Roadrage]

I don't recall Formula 1 being a "gentleman's sport". Rivalries existed in the past just as they do today. Don't let the "good old days" fog your brain (not you in particular but anyone in general )- they were not all that good.

Sure there were rivalries but they didn't deteriorate to the point where drivers would deliberately put another driver in danger or use any means to win. I'm thinking of Jackie Stewart and Jochen Rindt as a good example. They raced each other hard but were the best of friends. I can't recall the "gentleman" label of guys like Clark, Hill,Hulme Moss, Fangio etc. ever being questioned.,

 

[tifosa]

If cycling were truly a gentlemen's sport, there would be no doping.

The reality is, cycling's a dirty sport, with dirty cyclists, doing seen and unseen classless things while riding.

That's racing.