Dopers allowed to race

[HACKLERA68]

Why are confessed dopers (Hincapie) allowed to race still? Does there need to be an investigation to prove he is telling the truth that he cheated? He treated, he lied, he got over on the other racers, the fans the sponsors. He is not alone, but it is amazes me that he will admit it and the USAC and UCI and ASO say nothing. The man does not deserve to be in the peoloton.

 

[dlwssonic]

there is a sub forum called the clinic to discuss all doping related issues. Its not allowed here.

 

[Barrus]

Why are confessed dopers (Hincapie) allowed to race still? Does there need to be an investigation to prove he is telling the truth that he cheated? He treated, he lied, he got over on the other racers, the fans the sponsors. He is not alone, but it is amazes me that he will admit it and the USAC and UCI and ASO say nothing. The man does not deserve to be in the peoloton.

Might I ask where there is any record that he has confessed to doping, at least one that is publicly available and that might not be just a rumoured confession before the grand jury?

 

[dlwssonic]

Just because that 60 minutes said he was doping doesnt mean he is. Come on why would he turn himself in just to sabotage lance. And they are great friends anyway.

 

[Barrus]

Just because that 60 minutes said he was doping doesnt mean he is. Come on why would he turn himself in just to sabotage lance. And they are great friends anyway.

i think you misunderstood me, I'm not saying he isn't doping. But if the confession that the op is talking about is just the piece from 60 minutes nothing can be done, since it is not available to cyclings authorities and no way to prove its authentity

 

[fatandfast]

i think you misunderstood me, I'm not saying he isn't doping. But if the confession that the op is talking about is just the piece from 60 minutes nothing can be done, since it is not available to cyclings authorities and no way to prove its authentity

This is exactly what needs to happen. A mod/Admin putting some type of bridle on the infection of misinformation. Yes he probably is or was gassed at sometime throughout his career but there is no quote from him saying yes I did it. people type things enough times they become facts in the cyberweb

 

[TERMINATOR]

Why are confessed dopers (Hincapie) allowed to race still? Does there need to be an investigation to prove he is telling the truth that he cheated? He treated, he lied, he got over on the other racers, the fans the sponsors. He is not alone, but it is amazes me that he will admit it and the USAC and UCI and ASO say nothing. The man does not deserve to be in the peoloton.

Hincapie may or may not ultimately be charged with a doping violation by USADA (or the UCI as payback for ratting out their boy toy Lance). But USADA has no access to grand jury testimony and the lawyers in USADA are likely gonna offer Hincapie immunity to help them take down Lance.

Finally, USADA only has the authority to go back 8 years. Anything prior to that (2003 at this point) gets a free pass because of the statute of limitation.

Contador will be banned for 2 years. His little 'cut of meat' story has no evidence to support it.

 

[BullsFan22]

Hincapie may or may not ultimately be charged with a doping violation by USADA (or the UCI as payback for ratting out their boy toy Lance). But USADA has no access to grand jury testimony and the lawyers in USADA are likely gonna offer Hincapie immunity to help them take down Lance.

Finally, USADA only has the authority to go back 8 years. Anything prior to that (2003 at this point) gets a free pass because of the statute of limitation.

Contador will be banned for 2 years. His little 'cut of meat' story has no evidence to support it.

Not to change the subject or anything, but let's hope that Contador is indeed suspended and return the title(s) he has garnered. That way Andy can get something more out of the last three years of treachery! LOL

 

[Barrus]

This is exactly what needs to happen. A mod/Admin putting some type of bridle on the infection of misinformation. Yes he probably is or was gassed at sometime throughout his career but there is no quote from him saying yes I did it. people type things enough times they become facts in the cyberweb

I'm no mod/admin

 

[HACKLERA68]

Just because that 60 minutes said he was doping doesnt mean he is. Come on why would he turn himself in just to sabotage lance. And they are great friends anyway.

There is no sabotage. He is being questioned legally and admits it. Probably because it is the right thing to do. Do you really believe that all the accusers just don't like him?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Why are confessed dopers (Hincapie) allowed to race still? Does there need to be an investigation to prove he is telling the truth that he cheated? He treated, he lied, he got over on the other racers, the fans the sponsors. He is not alone, but it is amazes me that he will admit it and the USAC and UCI and ASO say nothing. The man does not deserve to be in the peoloton.

George was never tested positive, and he would be a loss for the peloton.

 

[powerste]

There is no sabotage. He is being questioned legally and admits it. Probably because it is the right thing to do. Do you really believe that all the accusers just don't like him?

It has been widely reported that he has testified by the Grand Jury investigating LA/Postal/et al (i.e., questioned legally). Such testimony is sealed and legally held to be confidential, and the only person who is not legally required to keep it confidential is the witness (i.e., George) who in this case has (wisely IMHO) chosen not to say anything about it himself.

60 Minutes reports that George has admitted to doping but has provided no proof and of course, we haven't see George on the show. So the authorities who have responsibility for prosecuting his suspected drug use (first, USADA, then the UCI possibly) have only the unsubstantiated hearsay reports of a single news outlet...hardly enough evidence to take action.

 

[fatandfast]

It has been widely reported that he has testified by the Grand Jury investigating LA/Postal/et al (i.e., questioned legally). Such testimony is sealed and legally held to be confidential, and the only person who is not legally required to keep it confidential is the witness (i.e., George) who in this case has (wisely IMHO) chosen not to say anything about it himself.

60 Minutes reports that George has admitted to doping but has provided no proof and of course, we haven't see George on the show. So the authorities who have responsibility for prosecuting his suspected drug use (first, USADA, then the UCI possibly) have only the unsubstantiated hearsay reports of a single news outlet...hardly enough evidence to take action.

Are there any sports examples I can read about where something that should be confidential is leaked and it backfires? I am curious about this part of the law if what you say is accurate. I can't see why the witness would be the only one compelled to swear secrecy about something so damaging.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why are confessed dopers (Hincapie) allowed to race still? Does there need to be an investigation to prove he is telling the truth that he cheated? He treated, he lied, he got over on the other racers, the fans the sponsors. He is not alone, but it is amazes me that he will admit it and the USAC and UCI and ASO say nothing. The man does not deserve to be in the peoloton.

You seem to be unaware the UCI condones the doping. (Armstrong and now Contador) Expect no enforcement for the most important riders. It's awful, but pretty close to the truth.

You also seem unaware that USAC is run by most of the same people sponsoring the likes of a Hincapie and, by all appearances coordinated a doping regimen. USAC is a proxy for the UCI, so whatever the UCI says goes.

From inside the sport, it's not cheating and lying unless you get caught.

 

[HACKLERA68]

You seem to be unaware the UCI condones the doping. (Armstrong and now Contador) Expect no enforcement for the most important riders. It's awful, but pretty close to the truth.

You also seem unaware that USAC is run by most of the same people sponsoring the likes of a Hincapie and, by all appearances coordinated a doping regimen. USAC is a proxy for the UCI, so whatever the UCI says goes.

From inside the sport, it's not cheating and lying unless you get caught.

I am aware. I just have had enough of the whole Lance Armstrong thing for a lifetime. And Contador. I have no doubts that they (UCI/USAC) tolerate the doping. I am just so fed up with the blatant lies of denial and the ignorant stories they give for their positives. It has been so long and pathetic I want it all to end. I know it won't. Iwould rather it not be discussed at all. But I moved on from the big two idiots to Hincapie because it was such a case of a lack of care by the organizations throughout the world that he admitted using. But, like I said, no one really seems to care becasue he is not a major winner in cycling. That is what I was getting at with initiating the thread. And that it is so disappointing to hear it from someone I like in the sport. Let them all use 'supplements'. Then, they will all have access to the same things and the best (supplemented) will rise to the top of the leveled playing field. At least then, there would be no more pathetic excuses. It wouldn't need to be talked about. It would then just be about the dominate cyclist and his bike.

 

[HACKLERA68]

George was never tested positive, and he would be a loss for the peloton.

Well, not popping isn't proof one way or the other for whatever reason. But seriously, the man says 'I did It'. Do you relaly need more? Yes, he did say it. And to pretend he didn't makes about as much sense as still believing that Armstrong didn't when virtually everyone who has ever road with him has accused him. Why would so many people do that. And, some of them are and were his friends. You can only deny for so long.

 

[leftover pie]

But seriously, the man says 'I did It'. .

please provide a link to where george said "I did it."

 

[Cloxxki]

I feel it should be discouraged with some ruling to admit to one court which in the other is prohibited and connected to sanctions, and then excersize the right of silence to avoid punishment for what factially happened. Hincapie can now complete his career, be all popular, build a business, based on lies which remain disclosed for a looong time. He knows he's a doper, but the sport doesn't get access to this truth which. It obstructs justice, and any internsion to clean up the sport. If Hincapie admitted beffore grandjury, he is now WORSE than Landis and Hamilton. He's enriching himself at the cost of cleaner riders, whether his poor performances now are obtained clean or not. All that testosterone and humane growth hormone still keep you faster years after you took them, because they change your physiology. The moment Hincapie confessed, he was in for at least a 2-year, else lifetime ban from all sports. By chosing silence, and not retiring, he's betraying all of the sport, a whole extra season of longer.

 

[patricknd]

please provide a link to where george said "I did it."

it's the internet. if you say it enough it must be true

 

[Barrus]

Well, not popping isn't proof one way or the other for whatever reason. But seriously, the man says 'I did It'. Do you relaly need more? Yes, he did say it. And to pretend he didn't makes about as much sense as still believing that Armstrong didn't when virtually everyone who has ever road with him has accused him. Why would so many people do that. And, some of them are and were his friends. You can only deny for so long.

Please provide for a source of this. The only time I have heard anything about this was 60 minutes which was based on unnamed sources and described confidential information, which would not be available to the UCI and cannot be confirmed in any manner. Therefore it is impossible to ban anyone based on this. If they did it would be illegitimate and would ensure that Hincapie has a good case to sue their asses off

 

[powerste]

Are there any sports examples I can read about where something that should be confidential is leaked and it backfires?

The only one I know of concerns the BALCO case. Victor Conte's defense lawyer leaked GJ testimony, accused the prosecution of doing it instead, was investigated, and ended up sentenced to 2 & 1/2 years in jail. ESPN's report here.

I am curious about this part of the law if what you say is accurate. I can't see why the witness would be the only one compelled to swear secrecy about something so damaging.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - it's my understanding that the witness is the only party who is free to talk about his/her testimony. It's the others involved in the proceedings - grand jurors, prosecutors, etc - who are legally required to keep those proceedings secret. So George should be free to talk about his testimony publicly, free from fear of prosecution for doing anything illegal. But, given that he's still racing, he's of course not saying anything about it.

There is probably quite a bit of discussion of it in the sticky "All Things Legal" thread, but here is a quick read that covers it. (see the first 5 sentences or so of Item #3)

 

[131313]

Please provide for a source of this. The only time I have heard anything about this was 60 minutes which was based on unnamed sources and described confidential information, which would not be available to the UCI and cannot be confirmed in any manner. Therefore it is impossible to ban anyone based on this. If they did it would be illegitimate and would ensure that Hincapie has a good case to sue their asses off

You're certainly right, there's not enough for USADA or USAC to be banning Hincapie over this (not sure what the UCI has to do with it?). However, you would think that the USADA would at least investigate the claims, wouldn't you?

I understand that they're probably holding off because of the Lance thing, but at this point it seems those guys will be in nursing homes by the time that's resolved. So basically, everyone besides Lance gets a pass, even if they've doped there way to a career, as Hincapie allegedly has done. If I were one of the guys cheated out of career because others, I probably wouldn't be that thrilled about it. LA shouldn't be the only one to face the music. It seems that "everyone was doing it" and "Lance made me do it" is getting these guys a free pass. That doesn't seem right to me. These guys should face the music as well, even if it's "greatly reduced music for their cooperation".

The USADA has time to go after masters club riders, why aren't they a little more proactive in the case of the allegations against Hincapie? I think it's a legitimate question.

 

[Barrus]

You're certainly right, there's not enough for USADA or USAC to be banning Hincapie over this (not sure what the UCI has to do with it?). However, you would think that the USADA would at least investigate the claims, wouldn't you?

I understand that they're probably holding off because of the Lance thing, but at this point it seems those guys will be in nursing homes by the time that's resolved. So basically, everyone besides Lance gets a pass, even if they've doped there way to a career, as Hincapie allegedly has done. If I were one of the guys cheated out of career because others, I probably wouldn't be that thrilled about it. LA shouldn't be the only one to face the music. It seems that "everyone was doing it" and "Lance made me do it" is getting these guys a free pass. That doesn't seem right to me. These guys should face the music as well, even if it's "greatly reduced music for their cooperation".

The USADA has time to go after masters club riders, why aren't they a little more proactive in the case of the allegations against Hincapie? I think it's a legitimate question.

And how would USADA investigate these claims, even if unnamed sources would come forward, its not as though they can use that, or can confirm their allegations?

 

[skippy]

"Hincapie " is no saint BUT just because someone with a "connection" with 60 minutes makes an unprovable statement WE are supposed to take it for fact ?
Wonder what you guys would do with your brain power if you didn't spend time speculating and chasing down "immaginary" facts ?
Get real , Hincapie working with Lance does not make him a " doper " and by association with " Cadel " making the BMC Team a suspect for further investigation .
" TALL poppy syndrome " seems to be alive and thriving in this thread !

 

[131313]

And how would USADA investigate these claims, even if unnamed sources would come forward, its not as though they can use that, or can confirm their allegations?

Pretty easily. They could start by interviewing him, just like they do in other non-analytical findings. Considering he could end up testifying under oath later, it could be in his interest to tell the truth.