dopers

[reepje]

I hope the rules change,and dopers get a life ban !
It are the biggest loosers on earth,and kill the sport!
Now in cyclocross to !! what a sad thing !!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I hope the rules change,and dopers get a life ban !
It are the biggest loosers on earth,and kill the sport!
Now in cyclocross to !! what a sad thing !!

as sad as it is and I agree with you, the place for this is the clinic

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

as sad as it is and I agree with you, the place for this is the clinic

And that is where it is heading!

Susan

 

[BroDeal]

I have said this before, but studies have shown the risk of getting caught is more important than the harshness of the punishment when it comes to dissuading people from doing something. As long as people believe that they will not get caught, they will continue to dope. The risks are small. The rewards are great. Doping is a rational choice.

 

[BigBoat]

Doping is a rational choice.

Its a perfectly lucid decison regardless if its prosocial or not.

 

[blackcat]

I hope the rules change,and dopers get a life ban !
It are the biggest loosers on earth,and kill the sport!
Now in cyclocross to !! what a sad thing !!

incorrect spelling

doperz with a zee.

 

[Cloxxki]

If doping is a rational decision, then the penalty should reflect that. Money back to the sport (year salary penalty) is good, but they'll find more old grey men to sponsor their lean trained butts. They are financially safer INSIDE the sport than outside, so they'll keep on training and sucking up to old rich men with bike teams.
2 year bans have only pushed out 32+ yo riders out of the sport. Except for Kohl.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

If doping is a rational decision, then the penalty should reflect that. Money back to the sport (year salary penalty) is good, but they'll find more old grey men to sponsor their lean trained butts. They are financially safer INSIDE the sport than outside, so they'll keep on training and sucking up to old rich men with bike teams.
2 year bans have only pushed out 32+ yo riders out of the sport. Except for Kohl.

well, that is not precisely true.

I would say it is an equal-opportunity offense, no more or less wrt to age.

here is the big list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

I find it stunning that so many "legends" and Hall of Fame men are so clearly laid out, yet many here go jugular on the current suspects. Shameful the hypocrisy of the recent admittance of Simpson to the Brit cycling hall.

It is either bad or not. It has been bad the whole time or not.

 

[Ripper]

I have said this before, but studies have shown the risk of getting caught is more important than the harshness of the punishment when it comes to dissuading people from doing something. As long as people believe that they will not get caught, they will continue to dope. The risks are small. The rewards are great. Doping is a rational choice.

I basically agree with you. My stance for quite some time has been - let's make the suspensions (not bans) short, but immediate. And let's actually be rigorous with testing, and catch all the fish (not just the small fry). Work the suspensions on a sliding scale, so it becomes increasingly 'bad' to be caught again and again - hitting you in the wallet.

Banning is essentially criminalization of a behaviour, but will not change the behaviour - it will just make it higher stakes. At the highest stake, you are too big to be caught.

 

[flicker]

I basically agree with you. My stance for quite some time has been - let's make the suspensions (not bans) short, but immediate. And let's actually be rigorous with testing, and catch all the fish (not just the small fry). Work the suspensions on a sliding scale, so it becomes increasingly 'bad' to be caught again and again - hitting you in the wallet.

Banning is essentially criminalization of a behaviour, but will not change the behaviour - it will just make it higher stakes. At the highest stake, you are too big to be caught.

Are you ripper saying that life is unfair? What a concept.

 

[Ripper]

Are you ripper saying that life is unfair? What a concept.

Ha ha. That would be pointless, as hopefully everyone already knows the answer to that !

I did, however, think I made my stance on doping sanctions relatively clear. So are you uncertain what I meant?

 

[Le breton]

De las Cuevas

well, that is not precisely true.
here is the big list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

.....

I noticed that the worst of all the french pro cyclists in terms of doping offences does not appear on that list, I'm not talking about Pascal Hervé as he was caught twice (1998 and 2001) but about Armand De la Cuevas, once stopped at the italian-french border with the trunk of his car full of dope.

Actually De las Cuevas' win in the Dauphiné Libéré in 1998 was one of the most hilarious biking events I ever saw, specially the last stage. I wonder if he was on PFC (it was just after Gianetti near death experience with PFC).

He was a trainer for an amateur team at one time and openly promoting dope. He was also one of Conconi's protégés.

Recently he started racing again at age 40 or so and was caught. Anyway, one has to admire his survival capability considering the quantities of products he must have absorbed in his life.

Of course Pascal Hervé is not far behind; watching him in the TdF 2002 was funny as well, he had to slow down so many times in the Izoard so as not to drop everybody including of course L.A. and his buddy Virenque who he was trying to help. If you have a video of that climb it's well worth watching just to admire Hervé's antics. My guess is he could have won the TdF that year but didn't want to as it would have been too obvious he was doped : too much above his usual performances.

 

[luckyboy]

Of course Pascal Hervé is not far behind; watching him in the TdF 2002 was funny as well, he had to slow down so many times in the Izoard so as not to drop everybody including of course L.A. and his buddy Virenque who he was trying to help. If you have a video of that climb it's well worth watching just to admire Hervé's antics. My guess is he could have won the TdF that year but didn't want to as it would have been too obvious he was doped : too much above his usual performances.

You mean 2000. Herve retired in 2001 and only rode for Polti with Virenque in 2000

 

[Le breton]

yes, 2000

You mean 2000. Herve retired in 2001 and only rode for Polti with Virenque in 2000

You must be right luckyboy, I did not take the time to check. 2000 then

 

[ChrisE]

You must be right luckyboy, I did not take the time to check. 2000 then

Yeah, I remember him chomping at the bit and soft pedalling up Hautacam and Ventoux, which enabled LA to put the tour away over those 2 stages. LA was really worried about Herve, who was the real threat instead of Pantani, Ulrich, etc.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Yeah, I remember him chomping at the bit and soft pedalling up Hautacam and Ventoux, which enabled LA to put the tour away over those 2 stages. LA was really worried about Herve, who was the real threat instead of Pantani, Ulrich, etc.

Yeah that is all they (paul, phill, and bob) on the lead up to the TDF that year. OLN had to basically tell those guys to stop talking about the threat from Hervewho and build up the battle with the “Biscuit” and “Pirate”. What a shame Hervewho held back so much!

 

[ChrisE]

Coming up next on Biography:

Pascal Herve, the reluctant stage racer. Get the inside story about this humbling character, who held back his ambition to obliterate the 2000 TdF field for the tranquility of obscurity.

 

[Le breton]

Hervé

Coming up next on Biography:

Pascal Herve, the reluctant stage racer. Get the inside story about this humbling character, who held back his ambition to obliterate the 2000 TdF field for the tranquility of obscurity.

It might be interesting to have his biography, not sure though, might be mainly boring, but from I have heard from people closely connected with the pro world, in his best years Hervé's dark side extended well beyond his dope use and deals, to include physical threats and such.

PS : I love your avatar, or is that the real thing?

 

[ChrisE]

PS : I love your avatar, or is that the real thing?

No, that's me. Thanks for the compliment, and if I "swung" that way I would have to look you up next time I was in Europe.

My girlfriend took this picture of me at the bisexual/lesbian convention in Cancun last month.

 

[frenchfry]

No, that's me. Thanks for the compliment, and if I "swung" that way I would have to look you up next time I was in Europe.

My girlfriend took this picture of me at the bisexual/lesbian convention in Cancun last month.

Liar.

This is probably your imaginary memory of a Polish barmaid in a Latin Quarter piano bar after you had a few (too many?) refreshments, necessary after a hot afternoon on the Champs Elysées.

I saw an interview with Hervé a few years ago. Clearly he was willing to do pretty much anything to get results and was totally unapologetic about it.

I remember him saying that at the end Virenque's lies were so blatant as to be ridiculous. I dislike them both a lot, though at least Hervé was honest about his digressions.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I say an interview with Hervé a few years ago. Clearly he was willing to do pretty much anything to get results and was totally unapologetic about it.

I remember him saying that at the end Virenque's lies were so blatant as to be ridiculous. I dislike them both a lot, though at least Hervé was honest about his digressions.

What is Herve doing now? I'd like to see what the riders from that time have moved forward with in their lives.

 

[Le breton]

What is Herve doing now? I'd like to see what the riders from that time have moved forward with in their lives.

Wiki has the answer
Il est aujourd'hui propriétaire d'un restaurant-café nommé "La Bibliothèque (The library)" à Limoges

He owns a café-restaurant (The library) in Limoges. In other words in Poupou's backyard. Didn't go back to his previous job in a print shop, but maybe that's what inspired the name "The library".

I hold a grudge against him in a way because soon after the Tour in 1997 I entered a hillclimb which ended in Val Thorens, his favourite ski-resort, and I happened to be next to him on the starting line. At the time I still didn't realize that EPO was as efficient as it is and that all those Festina guys were among the worst abusers of the lot.

So I had some admiration for the guy because he had turned to pro cycling at the ripe age of 30 in 1994! I congratulated him and got the pack to applaud him for his unusual and successful career.

Furthermore, after the finish, I received my cup for 2nd in my age category from his hands as he had been asked by the organizing club to give out the prizes. So we chatted a bit more and I must say he was pleasant enough.

It's only in 98 and after that I really learned more about the guy and it was a letdown for me. Anyway he has not been in the news in recent years, so maybe he has finally become a respectable citizen.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Coming up next on Biography:

Pascal Herve, the reluctant stage racer. Get the inside story about this humbling character, who held back his ambition to obliterate the 2000 TdF field for the tranquility of obscurity.

He was quoted as saying it was harder to soft pedal the entire TDF knowing that he could blast the favorites at any time! Also I think his DS in fear of a positive test result made the team mechanics clamp the brakes down so as to rub all the time.......front and back brakes! The only other TDF person to ever ride up a mountain with his brakes rubbing was the uniballer.

 

[Le breton]

fairly classy

What is Herve doing now? I'd like to see what the riders from that time have moved forward with in their lives.

http://labibliotheque87.com/