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Doping - Cat 1 pack fodder to TDF winner?

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I was able to access that paper discussed in SoS link. The ave. Ht of the EPO subjects was 44.7 prior to EPO dosing, and 49.5 after 4 weeks. So if they had been Pro riders, they might have passed a HT test, though probably not a current passport test.

Flicker, there is nothing unusual about 185-190 heart rate. A rough rule of thumb for max heartrate is 220 - age (in years), and many people have higher max rates than that (I do).
 
If anything, EPO might slow down heartrate, since the viscosity or thickness of blood increases with increasing HT. In extreme cases you had those Dutch riders dying in their sleep, but in more moderate users, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some decrease in maximum heart rate.
 
That study has some very interesting implications. With an average HT increase of about 10%, there was an average power increase of 13%. Under the passport system, I would guess that riders can't get away consistently with increasing their HT by more than 5%, and probably not much more increase in power than that, either, assuming all they are doing is blood doping of some kind. Still enough to gain a significant advantage, but narrowing the difference between doped and clean (if any such?) contenders.

Also, for those who believe in high responders or other factors that allow some riders to gain more benefit from the same doping program as other riders, the less the maximum effect, the less variability between riders on the same program.
 
Aug 3, 2010
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Without knowing any specifics about Floyd, but just to illustrate how someone could go from TdF champ to average US Pro.

Un-doped and fit:
420ftp/70kg = 6w/kg

Doped and fit 10% drugs benefit:
462 ftp/70kg = 6.6w/kg

Undoped not fit:
380ftp/75kg = 5.1 w/kg

Totally hypothetical, but shows how quick the tide can turn +/-10%.
 
A

Anonymous

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flicker said:
It is curious to me why Hamilton and Landis did not do better on return from suspension.
motivation, training, bike, all manner of things. Why was david beckham ****e at LA galaxy and great when he went back to inter milan?
 
May 20, 2010
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acoggan said:
I think that there was an "if" missing from that quote (which was stated as a question), i.e., Creed was speaking in hypotheticals to explain his decision to not dope.

Full disclosure: I've met Mike and his wife, and at one point spent an hour at the OTC bending their ears when they asked for my take on pursuiting...
True, but it sounds like the sauce he could afford wasn't worth the risk of getting caught.

Btw - I used to live in Colorado Springs and did many a training ride with him and hung out with his wife. He's a funny guy.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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yakhillclimb said:
it sounds like the sauce he could afford wasn't worth the risk of getting caught.
Agreed, i.e., whether speaking in hypotheticals or not, that's also how I interpreted his comments.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Squares said:
I honestly don't think Landis had the motivation to work his way back up to the competitive level even racing with clean riders.
It's quite a gamble to assume that the US domestic pro scene is entirely (or even reasonably) clean.

I think the recent raid on Michael Ball's house, and investigations resulting from that might prove otherwise.

I suspect there is a major scandal developing. Even much respected good guys like Bahati are clearly worried. Joe Papp might be able to tell us more, if he can.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
It's quite a gamble to assume that the US domestic pro scene is entirely (or even reasonably) clean.I think the recent raid on Michael Ball's house, and investigations resulting from that might prove otherwise.

I suspect there is a major scandal developing. Even much respected good guys like Bahati are clearly worried. Joe Papp might be able to tell us more, if he can.
I think it's worse than when Floyd first began, mostly due to easier access to PED's. Any over-30 guy can walk into a physcian's office and complain of low sex drive or energy and get a Testosterone prescription. Riders just need a connection now. I think that accounts for the difficulty for a clean rider to prevail consistently. Looking at Stage 1 results for Utah and knowing the strength of very clean riders and their level of success is another, current indicator.
 

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