Doping in Motocross/Supercross

[magoo34]

The sanctioning body for AMA motocross recently announced an association with USADA to begin drug testing for the MX series that begins this week.

The sports biggest star and arguably the best SX and MX racer in the world, Ryan Villopoto, has withdrawn from the series. He has cited a lingering knee injury as the reason. What is suspicious:

He absolutely dominated the last four supercross races off the season (which ended on May 5) going wire to wire in each event.

He has been working with an Aussie trainer named Aldon Baker who allegedly has some background in cycling.

There has never been testing in this sport. There is, however, a lot of money to be made.

These top guys finish races and show no real signs of fatigue.

James Stewart, who is maybe the next fastest guy and is famous for being the first uber successful African-American in motorsports, used to be trained by Baker and has eluded to some "programs".

Although this is off the radar for this forum, it feels a lot like the BS that we have been listening to from the guys (and gals) who pedal.

 

[Scott SoCal]

The sanctioning body for AMA motocross recently announced an association with USADA to begin drug testing for the MX series that begins this week.

The sports biggest star and arguably the best SX and MX racer in the world, Ryan Villopoto, has withdrawn from the series. He has cited a lingering knee injury as the reason. What is suspicious:

He absolutely dominated the last four supercross races off the season (which ended on May 5) going wire to wire in each event.

He has been working with an Aussie trainer named Aldon Baker who allegedly has some background in cycling.

There has never been testing in this sport. There is, however, a lot of money to be made.

These top guys finish races and show no real signs of fatigue.

James Stewart, who is maybe the next fastest guy and is famous for being the first uber successful African-American in motorsports, used to be trained by Baker and has eluded to some "programs".

Although this is off the radar for this forum, it feels a lot like the BS that we have been listening to from the guys (and gals) who pedal.

Poto's won the SX crown for the fourth straight year. He was probably the least dominant this year as the competition is incredible. There are, when healthy, at least six dudes that can win on any night. Consider Barcia... Winless all SX season.

Dope? Maybe. Strength and stamina are prerequisites. However, the longest SX main is Daytona at a little under 30 minutes. Don't know that oxygen vector drugs would play much of a part there. Anabolics are far more likely.

At any rate, I'm thrilled to see pro MX adhere to the USADA code if that's what they are doing.

Love your handle. Dude was fun to watch and even better to race with. Nice guy to boot.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Certainly does sound familiar...

The culture of motocross has opened up to include physical fitness trainers; and this is evident by the popularity of trainers on the amateur and professional levels of motocross! Thanks in part to Ricky Carmichael and his incredible transformation to elite level fitness with his trainer Aldon Baker. As we all know motocross is a physically demanding sport and the advantage of being fit is easy to realize in your race results.
http://www.mxcoach.com/pages/physical.html

Is Ricky any relation to our mate Chris? They're both from Florida

 

[deboat]

I know some of these guys, more of the guys that have now retired. Most of the stuff they are interested in is anything that heals them faster. Or hides the pain from the injuries they have. The injuries that these guys have during a career is amazing. Chad Reed would have to be the toughest guy on the planet.
But to say that Villopoto needed any doping to win his titles is showing that you have no idea about the sport. Yes you must have high fitness must this sport is more about having extreme bike skills, racing tactics, and having big balls. They must have a great understanding of how and what changes to the bike do.
The risks they take riding and racing is far more dangerous than any drugs that they could take.
I think the "association with USADA" is a bad idea because the sport is allready expensive without adding extra cost with no real benifits to the sport.

 

[Colonel]

The sanctioning body for AMA motocross recently announced an association with USADA to begin drug testing for the MX series that begins this week.

The sports biggest star and arguably the best SX and MX racer in the world, Ryan Villopoto, has withdrawn from the series. He has cited a lingering knee injury as the reason. What is suspicious:

He absolutely dominated the last four supercross races off the season (which ended on May 5) going wire to wire in each event.

He has been working with an Aussie trainer named Aldon Baker who allegedly has some background in cycling.

There has never been testing in this sport. There is, however, a lot of money to be made.

These top guys finish races and show no real signs of fatigue.

James Stewart, who is maybe the next fastest guy and is famous for being the first uber successful African-American in motorsports, used to be trained by Baker and has eluded to some "programs".

Although this is off the radar for this forum, it feels a lot like the BS that we have been listening to from the guys (and gals) who pedal.

1st off gets your facts right before posting and Aldon is from South Africa and was a Pro cyclists in SA and then went abroad to Europe as many do to make a living. James stopped working with Aldon cause he didnt like so much off bike training and Aldon found him very lazy and always wanted his own way and the 2 bashed heads and hence parted ways.

Villopoto's knee injury was also well known about halfway into the SX series and way before the testing was announced to the outdoor under AMA while Supercross is run under the same rules as FIM and have had testing at races and a few out of competition tests for certain riders. So there has been testing.

If you look at some of the guys after motos, even the top guys they broken and showing huge fatigue.

 

[magoo34]

My neighbor's son is a tech who has worked with US Suzuki and Pro-Circuit said that the FIM testing has been virtually nothing. The sequence of events which morphed from RV stating that he was definitely doing the Nats in a late April interview to getting evaluated for the knee issue and getting Metty signed in the span of hours seems somewhat orchestrated to me. BFD as to where Baker is from: as I recall he was a defender of Armstrong until the **** hit the fan.

There was a time when MX was ranked as the second toughest sport (behind soccer/football) Anyone who doubts that (a) these guys would not benefit and (b) not take the chance is pretty naïve.

 

[magoo34]

I know some of these guys, more of the guys that have now retired. Most of the stuff they are interested in is anything that heals them faster. Or hides the pain from the injuries they have. The injuries that these guys have during a career is amazing. Chad Reed would have to be the toughest guy on the planet.
But to say that Villopoto needed any doping to win his titles is showing that you have no idea about the sport. Yes you must have high fitness must this sport is more about having extreme bike skills, racing tactics, and having big balls. They must have a great understanding of how and what changes to the bike do.
The risks they take riding and racing is far more dangerous than any drugs that they could take.
I think the "association with USADA" is a bad idea because the sport is allready expensive without adding extra cost with no real benifits to the sport.

Well, you certainly seem like a real mx guy with your poor grammar and spelling. For a moment I thought I was on a Racer X forum.

The fitness benefits a rider not only during a race but also in practice and testing. PED's can definitely enhance every aspect of a rider's performance and paycheck.

I do agree with you, however, that the testing is a bad idea. I do not want to see the sport go **** side up due to PED issues. It has rebounded in the past few years from the economic crap storm. Plus, I think that most sports fans do not care at all about PED use. They just want to be entertained.

That being said, if a top guy got popped it would not at all surprise me.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

What is arm pump surgery?


Edit: on topic Aldon baker interview circa 2009 http://racerxonline.com/2009/01/14/between-the-motos-aldon-baker

 

[Colonel]

It is a surgery on the forearms to release fascia that constricts and causes "armpump" whole riding. Its like a severe cramping of the forearms and you unable to hold onto the bars, use the throttle, clutch front break etc. Physiologically some athletes suffer from it some dont and there is no real cure. Stefan Roncada had the surgery and it worked well, Paul Cooper had it 3 times and it didnt work along with some other riders.

 

[unamused]

little history
Ryan Hughes used to train with Landis while Floyd was fighting to get his tour back
Jeff Spencer used to work with lots of guys at honda
Ricky Carmichael was the first to use Aldon, and was transformed from a pudgy kid to ripped in months. Aldon is the top trainer in mx/sx and is payed 6 figures by these guys. During his time with Aldon, RC had an exclusive deal were he was the only one to work with him
At one point on a public forum motodrive, now vitalmx. A former mechanic who was seriously injured when Travis Pastrana flipped his vet, outed a top 20 pro for owing him money for HGH
Reed used to be trained by Chris the beard.
Also common knowledge getting IV's between motos is banned by the AMA, but the top pros in there personal motor coaches receive them

 

[Dear Wiggo]

little history
Ryan Hughes used to train with Landis while Floyd was fighting to get his tour back
Jeff Spencer used to work with lots of guys at honda
Ricky Carmichael was the first to use Aldon, and was transformed from a pudgy kid to ripped in months. Aldon is the top trainer in mx/sx and is payed 6 figures by these guys. During his time with Aldon, RC had an exclusive deal were he was the only one to work with him
At one point on a public forum motodrive, now vitalmx. A former mechanic who was seriously injured when Travis Pastrana flipped his vet, outed a top 20 pro for owing him money for HGH
Reed used to be trained by Chris the beard.
Also common knowledge getting IV's between motos is banned by the AMA, but the top pros in there personal motor coaches receive them

No doubt difficult to verify, but this sounds believable, following common patterns seen elsewhere in cycling. Thanks for the post.

 

[deboat]

Well, you certainly seem like a real mx guy with your poor grammar and spelling. For a moment I thought I was on a Racer X forum.

The fitness benefits a rider not only during a race but also in practice and testing. PED's can definitely enhance every aspect of a rider's performance and paycheck.

I do agree with you, however, that the testing is a bad idea. I do not want to see the sport go **** side up due to PED issues. It has rebounded in the past few years from the economic crap storm. Plus, I think that most sports fans do not care at all about PED use. They just want to be entertained.

That being said, if a top guy got popped it would not at all surprise me.

Magoo34 I should write Grammer Police. You are correct that My eNglish is crap! When I was a kid I would skip on eNglish class and go for a ride. fu

My problem with your posting of this subject is that you are using a name of someone who you know nothing about, and writing that he must be using PEDS to win. RV did not dominate the first part of this season. He did win where it was needed and finished the season winning. Maybe he is , maybe he is not. But who am I to judge??? And if you do not want it tested, then why are you even bringing it up on a cycling forum? Go to a MX forum and make a posting and see the replys.

 

[Colonel]

Jeff Spencer is a bull**** artist. He conned his way through his training of athletes and just cause RC went fro young and over weight doesnt mean he used PEDs. I have an athlete who went from 157kg and could barely walk 100m to being 95kg and is doing IM competitions and that has nothing to do with PED's.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Jeff Spencer is a bull**** artist. He conned his way through his training of athletes and just cause RC went fro young and over weight doesnt mean he used PEDs. I have an athlete who went from 157kg and could barely walk 100m to being 95kg and is doing IM competitions and that has nothing to do with PED's.

In months? Safe weight loss dictates 157 - 95 kg should take a year.

Now do it for someone already competing / an athlete.

 

[Colonel]

In months? Safe weight loss dictates 157 - 95 kg should take a year.

Now do it for someone already competing / an athlete.

Yes over a year or just about and Ricky lost about 10kg over a few months and wasnt done over night like everyone who have no clue are suggesting and dont understand with proper training and diet etc transformation does happen when training is done correctly.

 

[unamused]

RC missed the SX series to get his knee fixed, during his recovery is when he teamed up with Aldon and came back ripped. Closer to 6 months, not a year.
The top guys make millions, just like any other sport with that kind of money on the line guys will look for an advantage

 

[Scott SoCal]

I guess everyone must be bored with the Giro.

No professional sport is without cheats, even MX.

Spencer was a d-bag. May still be. IIRC, he competed on "the dating game" which says much. I think he was the mule that dumped Armstrong's Actovegin that the French TV dudes found. Real class act, that one.

Here's the deal with Supercross. Oxygen vector drugs are likely useless. The events are not long enough to need a high hct. Strength and injury recovery, weight control (Aicar?) drugs certainly would be helpful.

Outdoor MX is a little different. Two motos, longer events... Still, the biggest problem isn't how many red blood cells are in your veins, it's hydration.

I'm guessing that rider X on EPO would not have much of an advantage over rider y on EPO even if rider x and rider y was Villapoto and Stewart. I reserve the right to be wrong but it simply would not have the same effect as in pro cycling.

At any rate, I welcome the testing.

 

[Andynonomous]

Funny how the same reactive patterns occur whenever you state that you are suspicious that an athlete dopes. The same sort of excuses we got from Armstrong and Contador fans, we get for other suspicious athletes. It's called denial.

I don't follow MX, nor have I ever raced, but I have owned a couple of dirt-bikes (many years ago). The fitness needed to ride is similar to some cycle races. Stamina (although not as much as grand tour cycling), and lean muscle help win races.

Whenever there is a competitive advantage to doping, and ways around the testing, athletes WILL dope. The rewards are too great. They are called PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING drugs for a reason. Because the top performers are beating other doping competitors, they are likely doping as well.

I don't know the specifics of todays MX competitors, but odds are, like all sports that require stamina, acceleration, or strength, motocross riders are likely cheating as well.

 

[jam pants]

MX Defense Force comes out of the woodwork!

Come on, people. Doping in MX increased at about the same time you saw the moto meatheads riding road bikes and tossing around kettlebells.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Here's the deal with Supercross. Oxygen vector drugs are likely useless. The events are not long enough to need a high hct. Strength and injury recovery, weight control (Aicar?) drugs certainly would be helpful.

Outdoor MX is a little different. Two motos, longer events... Still, the biggest problem isn't how many red blood cells are in your veins, it's hydration.

#1 EPO would absolutely help recovery and to some extent endurance for those aerobic efforts. A moto is more than ~2 minutes, so endurance doping would help. It seems like EPO is kind of old tech now, so maybe there's some better replacement.

#2 Another sport ripe for Testosterone/HGH abuse. That's a hot combination and easy to administer.

#3 It will be interesting to see what happens now that the effective over-the-counter PED's like DHEA are banned.

I find the strong replies rather interesting. Very little room to tolerate even the possibility there is doping. You'd have to be an idiot to not do HGH/Test or even less effective, but still useful stuff from your local vitamin retailer.

And remember kids, it's not doping unless you get caught.

 

[Scott SoCal]

#1 EPO would absolutely help recovery and to some extent endurance for those aerobic efforts. A moto is more than ~2 minutes, so endurance doping would help. It seems like EPO is kind of old tech now, so maybe there's some better replacement.

#2 Another sport ripe for Testosterone/HGH abuse. That's a hot combination and easy to administer.

#3 It will be interesting to see what happens now that the effective over-the-counter PED's like DHEA are banned.

I find the strong replies rather interesting. Very little room to tolerate even the possibility there is doping. You'd have to be an idiot to not do HGH/Test or even less effective, but still useful stuff from your local vitamin retailer.

And remember kids, it's not doping unless you get caught.

#1 EPO would absolutely help recovery and to some extent endurance for those aerobic efforts. A moto is more than ~2 minutes, so endurance doping would help. It seems like EPO is kind of old tech now, so maybe there's some better replacement.

Recovery between motos outdoors perhaps. Recovery for long days in the saddle perhaps. I very much doubt if these guys are hooking up to blood bags.

Typically, these guys are racing at threshold. They don't typically get into the red very often. High sustained heart-rate and all-over-body muscle usage. Zam was asking what arm-pump was... it's probably one of the biggest reasons guys can't go faster, longer. Right hand operating the throttle with your thumb and either middle, ring and pinky fingers while index is on the front brake... left hand hanging on with ring and pinky finger while operating the clutch with the index and middle finger... al while hanging on to a 235lb machine making about 62hp flying over jumps, whoops, bumps, around corners etc., etc. It's pretty intense especially from the elbows down.

#2 Another sport ripe for Testosterone/HGH abuse. That's a hot combination and easy to administer.

Yep. This is kinda how I see it. Even cortico's for injured joints (ankles, knees, shoulders, elbowa, wrists, etc.)

#3 It will be interesting to see what happens now that the effective over-the-counter PED's like DHEA are banned.

Agreed. My guess is the AMA has no concept of effective testing and probably has no TUE program. I doubt they test for this stuff and if they do I can just see all the back-dated exemptions coming forward.

I find the strong replies rather interesting. Very little room to tolerate even the possibility there is doping. You'd have to be an idiot to not do HGH/Test or even less effective, but still useful stuff from your local vitamin retailer.

I can promise you most of the competitors have no clue of what substances are on the banned list.

 

[Turbo TuTu]

The sanctioning body for AMA motocross recently announced an association with USADA to begin drug testing for the MX series that begins this week.

The sports biggest star and arguably the best SX and MX racer in the world, Ryan Villopoto, has withdrawn from the series. He has cited a lingering knee injury as the reason. What is suspicious:

He absolutely dominated the last four supercross races off the season (which ended on May 5) going wire to wire in each event.

He has been working with an Aussie trainer named Aldon Baker who allegedly has some background in cycling.

There has never been testing in this sport. There is, however, a lot of money to be made.

These top guys finish races and show no real signs of fatigue.

James Stewart, who is maybe the next fastest guy and is famous for being the first uber successful African-American in motorsports, used to be trained by Baker and has eluded to some "programs".

Although this is off the radar for this forum, it feels a lot like the BS that we have been listening to from the guys (and gals) who pedal.

Interesting, but speculating about loosely connected dots and anecdotal evidence isn't enough to convince me. I don't doubt that riders in motocross are doping but pointing fingers at Ryan Villopoto isn't exactly fair. If he's doing it, others are as well. You have guys like Stewart, Reed, and Dungey who can, at times, beat Villopoto. It seems unfair to throw RV under the bus on this one. I think when a rider is winning, they automatically get put under suspicion by their more cynical fans/haters.

I do think doping in motocross is a fair topic and it's nice to hear what people from other sports think. There is a popular motocross forum called vitalmx and this topic is off limits for the most part. The motocross community is too small to openly discuss the possibility that riders may be doping so you have the website admins/moto-journalists, et. al. all pushing the topic under the rug and calling those who question it, "conspiracy theorists".

 

[unamused]

supercross just got it's first positive. Adderall

Anti-doping controls were carried out during the Monster Energy AMA Supercross, an FIM World Championship event held at the Century Link Field, Seattle, Washington, USA, on 12 April 2014.

The riders tested were:

Ryan DUNGEY (USA)
Ryan VILLOPOTO (USA)
James STEWART (USA)

No prohibited substances or their metabolites, or markers, or the use of prohibited methods were found in the tested samples apart from James Stewart’s sample, which tested positive for amphetamine.

 

[Athame]

"Adderall works by increasing activity of certain neurotransmitters in the brain, namely norepinephrine and dopamine,..." from wiki.

_____ seems like just the ticket: stoned on Adderall and blazing saddles
_____ in super-cross!!! *Sick*

 

[FXDGEAR]

Here's an update on James Stewart's positive:

http://www.vitalmx.com/features/Breaking-News-James-Stewart-Suspended,3666

16 month retro active ban...