Doping in rugby

[wansteadimp]

I don't really get this post. It's hard to think of anything other than moral grounds to object to doping in any sport - does doping in cycling, for example, really lead to a 'bad product', and if so is that the primary objection to cyclist's doping?

Medical grounds? I'm surprised nothing leaked out when Quins were going through all the "bloodgate" investigations.

As for where does English flair go, its not that it disappears, we just don't trust it at international level, we'll always go for the plodding consistent player rather than the exciting risk taker (Andrew over Barnes, Barrett over 36, Cueto and Cohen over virtually anyone else) and/or the flair players get broken by the attritional nature of the Premiership - Simpson-Daniel being a prime example of this.

And for the point made way up thread - Sella would have coped just fine in bringing the bosh in today's game as he did in his day - one very hard man.

 

[RownhamHill]

Medical grounds? I'm surprised nothing leaked out when Quins were going through all the "bloodgate" investigations.

Yeah, I was kind of lumping in medical grounds (as in, the pressure to dope to compete can lead to dopers risking their health) as a moral ground to object to doping. . .

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I don't really get this post. It's hard to think of anything other than moral grounds to object to doping in any sport - does doping in cycling, for example, really lead to a 'bad product', and if so is that the primary objection to cyclist's doping?

It's interesting that doping in rugby seems to get more comment on cycling forums that on rugby forums. Cycling followers seem to get much more upset about doping than do followers of other sports. Cycling is the only sport I've followed where its fans genuinely do seem less bothered about who wins than the race being exciting, animated or panacheful (made up word.) In other sports most, if not all, fans will take a dull, grinding victory for their man/team than glorious failure.

Maybe this is because blood-doping distorts cycling more than any PED distorts any other sport due to the relatively limited skills/technique required to prosper in the Tour. In other sports, skill, guile and cunning can offset a multitude of physical disadvantages, but in stage races, particularly GTs, if some guy can consistently output 5% more w/kg than you can then you're most likely stuffed.

Or maybe the nature of road cycling, with its tactics being hard to decipher and the drawn out nature of its events attracts a more thoughtful, reflective type of fan, whereas rugby, football etc. attracts those with a shorter attention span and less need to analyse their sport.

Interesting though that Sky was very unpopular when launched due to the PR hoohah, and this continued even when they were unsuccessful and almost certainly not doping in their debut season. (I wonder if the folk who openly laughed at them back then are still laughing now!) Likewise, Wiggo was unpopular (or more accurately polarising) for jumping ship to Sky, with his much misunderstood quote about Wigan. The whole doping saga has been a very convenient stick with which to beat Sky and Wiggo. Not because of doping per se, but because of who they are and what they represent. Hence the interpretation of any Sky style of riding, be it attacking, the train or whatever, as proof of doping.

 

[Mt Ste Odile]

My first ever posting and risking it in the clinic after being a lurker for years... This reply by the French rugby players union rep in L'Equipe annoyed me enough to register finally.

Apparently rugby is a victim of the AFLD and ADAMS is only useful for individual sports like cycling and athletics...

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/-le-mal-est-fait/360093

Toujours dans le communiqué, vous évoquez un combat sur la géolocalisation dans le rugby avec l’AFLD, à quoi faites-vous référence ?
Le système de géolocalisation est un système mis en place pour les contrôles inopinés. Il a été créé pour des sports individuels comme le cyclisme où les athlètes sont éparses. Cela devient aberrant lorsqu’on l’applique aux sports collectifs. Les rugbymen en l’occurrence sont facilement localisables puisqu’ils sont au centre d’entraînement de leur club tous les jours. On sait où les trouver ! Ensuite, ce qu’on demande aux joueurs est proprement délirant. J’invite d’ailleurs n’importe qui à faire une géolocalisation, ne serait-ce qu’une fois. Mais si on ne remplit pas ces obligations, les sanctions peuvent être graves. Un an, puis deux ou trois ans en cas de récidive. Cela peut même priver certains de Coupe du monde.

Que pensez-vous du système des contrôles anti-dopage dans le rugby ?
Les contrôles anti-dopage ne sont clairement pas efficaces. Le cas Armstrong dans le cyclisme en est le meilleur exemple. Dix ans d’analyse d’échantillons sans qu’il se fasse prendre une fois. L’obsession du contrôle urinaire n’est pas la bonne à mon sens. Le système actuel est compliqué et surtout très faillible car la charte de la preuve est renversée. Tous les joueurs sont suspects et si vous osez contester cela se retourne contre vous. C’est un blanc-seing pour l’AFLD qui a une grande marge de manœuvre.

 

[wansteadimp]

Does anyone know the testing procedures in rugby. OOC compared to in season.

My understanding, okay rumours garnered on other blogs, is that most of the bulking up is done during the off season and in season its a matter of limping the players through and managing the injuries. So presumably most of the doping would occur in pre-season - ignoring things to get players up for the game and ignoring the pain.

 

[Mt Ste Odile]

Unfortunately no, but apparently they are at the training ground every day so testing should be easy...

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Galthie-dubitatif/360140

Galthie has come in with a great comment:

"Le rugby est un sport qui demande des qualités physiques antagonistes. Il faut être endurant. Ce n’est pas un sport en ligne, il demande de l’évitement. C’est un sport de vitesse, de puissance, d’adresse, de communication, un sport où il faut rester lucide dans le combat. Je ne connais pas produit miracle qui permettrait de maîtriser tout ça."

Nothing to see here, move on...

 

[frenchfry]

My first ever posting and risking it in the clinic after being a lurker for years... This reply by the French rugby players union rep in L'Equipe annoyed me enough to register finally.

Apparently rugby is a victim of the AFLD and ADAMS is only useful for individual sports like cycling and athletics...

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/-le-mal-est-fait/360093

Toujours dans le communiqué, vous évoquez un combat sur la géolocalisation dans le rugby avec l’AFLD, à quoi faites-vous référence ?
Le système de géolocalisation est un système mis en place pour les contrôles inopinés. Il a été créé pour des sports individuels comme le cyclisme où les athlètes sont éparses. Cela devient aberrant lorsqu’on l’applique aux sports collectifs. Les rugbymen en l’occurrence sont facilement localisables puisqu’ils sont au centre d’entraînement de leur club tous les jours. On sait où les trouver ! Ensuite, ce qu’on demande aux joueurs est proprement délirant. J’invite d’ailleurs n’importe qui à faire une géolocalisation, ne serait-ce qu’une fois. Mais si on ne remplit pas ces obligations, les sanctions peuvent être graves. Un an, puis deux ou trois ans en cas de récidive. Cela peut même priver certains de Coupe du monde.

Que pensez-vous du système des contrôles anti-dopage dans le rugby ?
Les contrôles anti-dopage ne sont clairement pas efficaces. Le cas Armstrong dans le cyclisme en est le meilleur exemple. Dix ans d’analyse d’échantillons sans qu’il se fasse prendre une fois. L’obsession du contrôle urinaire n’est pas la bonne à mon sens. Le système actuel est compliqué et surtout très faillible car la charte de la preuve est renversée. Tous les joueurs sont suspects et si vous osez contester cela se retourne contre vous. C’est un blanc-seing pour l’AFLD qui a une grande marge de manœuvre.

I think I heard the same guy on the radio. He seemed much more concerned that rugby was being outed for doping than the doping itself. He mostly was upset that rugby was being compared to cycling - horror!!

Maybe someone should show him before and after pictures of Sébastien Chabal.

 

[frenchfry]

Retired rugyman and coach admits to doping during his career in the 80's. Nothing serious, but continues the debate on doping in the sport.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/J-p-elissalde-avoue-s-etre-dope/360701

His son Jean Baptiste currently plays for the national team (not to say there is a doping connection)

 

[del1962]

Retired rugyman and coach admits to doping during his career in the 80's. Nothing serious, but continues the debate on doping in the sport.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/J-p-elissalde-avoue-s-etre-dope/360701

His son Jean Baptiste currently plays for the national team (not to say there is a doping connection)

Do you have a translation?

 

[wansteadimp]

Retired rugyman and coach admits to doping during his career in the 80's. Nothing serious, but continues the debate on doping in the sport.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/J-p-elissalde-avoue-s-etre-dope/360701

His son Jean Baptiste currently plays for the national team (not to say there is a doping connection)

He retired in 2010 and has played a few games for Toulouse since, he could probably still do a better job than Freddie though!

 

[frenchfry]

He retired in 2010 and has played a few games for Toulouse since, he could probably still do a better job than Freddie though!

He retired already? Shows you how much I know about rugby, though I do enjoy watching a few games on the tube.

 

[zebedee]

L'Equipe article now carried in today's Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ms-it-was-rife-during-his-playing-career.html

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.sportlive.co.za/rugby/mo...ing-in-rugby-as-bad-as-cycling-says-ex-hooker

Doping in rugby as bad as cycling, says ex-hooker

not wonderlance's hooker of awesomeness.

 

[del1962]

Welsh Rugby Prop escapes punishment because he had no intention to dope

Rugby sides with the dopers?