Doping in the lower ranks.

[DirtyWorks]

I completely disagree with the whole line of reasoning that doping is harmful to one's health.

Some unavoidable facts get in the way of your position. The under-23 riders who died of EPO induced heart attacks in the late 80's get in the way. Maybe you should check in with Joe Papp. He's posted mentioning some mysterious and complicated medical conditions he's trying to get a handle on. If I'm wrong Joe, jump in and say so. Greg Strock? Erich Kaiter? Gerrik Latta and David Francis? Any of those names ring a bell? Ask Chris Carmichael what he injected juniors and under-23's with sometime.

It's hard when simple facts get in the way of such a tidy world view.

Steroids gave Lance his millions and allowed Arnold Schwarzenegger to make cool action movies about me.

Two or more wrongs don't make what happened right. The fact that some are disproportionately compensated for doping doesn't mean much.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Tell those amateurs you know who dope they are spending more money to dope than what they win because of doping. Then tell me what they say. If they don't have an intelligent response, then they're stupid and you should tell them that.

Anybody who races a bike and doesn't do it for monetary gain is pretty stupid. Accidents, injury, travel expenses, huge time commitment for training are massive intrusions and negatives to one's life that guarantee anyone who races a bike should only do it for the money. And there's simply not enough money in amateur cycling to justify a doping program.

If people are racing for reasons other than money, then that's a bit weird, not to mention stupid.

You know the elite /espoir guys on "continental" teams (like Rabobank CT) and national teams in lower ranked national tours are all amateurs right? They have sponsorship, equipment, and often enjoy a support network similar to that of pro riders, but don't receive any (or a full) salary and are not professional.

In fact these are the ranks from which pro riders are recruited from, and it is massively competitive. Here in NL there are about 2/3 riders who make it as a pro each year, from a pool of about 30 guys riding at top amateur level, and about 8-10 who are pro material. Belgium is similar.

Most of the amateur team directors are ex pro riders, and many of the riders have fathers, uncles etc who raced top level.

There are also zero controls at criterium races in NL, with big cash prizes, and I rode 2 yrs as elite rider in NL and Belgium and was never tested once. I raced alongside such riders as VdB (once) Dave Bruylandts, Jonny Hoogerland....

If you think there is no doping going on at this amateur level, and no reason to then you are mistaken and naive.

Remember - elite license holders are amateurs too, despite the world of difference between their level and that of Cat 4 weekend warriors.

 

[ultimobici]

You know the elite /espoir guys on "continental" teams (like Rabobank CT) and national teams in lower ranked national tours are all amateurs right? They have sponsorship, equipment, and often enjoy a support network similar to that of pro riders, but don't receive any (or a full) salary and are not professional.

In fact these are the ranks from which pro riders are recruited from, and it is massively competitive. Here in NL there are about 2/3 riders who make it as a pro each year, from a pool of about 30 guys riding at top amateur level, and about 8-10 who are pro material. Belgium is similar.

Most of the amateur team directors are ex pro riders, and many of the riders have fathers, uncles etc who raced top level.

There are also zero controls at criterium races in NL, with big cash prizes, and I rode 2 yrs as elite rider in NL and Belgium and was never tested once. I raced alongside such riders as VdB (once) Dave Bruylandts, Jonny Hoogerland....

If you think there is no doping going on at this amateur level, and no reason to then you are mistaken and naive.

Remember - elite license holders are amateurs too, despite the world of difference between their level and that of Cat 4 weekend warriors.

Good post, thanks.

 

[Tangled Tango]

Anybody who races a bike and doesn't do it for monetary gain is pretty stupid. Accidents, injury, travel expenses, huge time commitment for training are massive intrusions and negatives to one's life that guarantee anyone who races a bike should only do it for the money. If people are racing for reasons other than money, then that's a bit weird, not to mention stupid.

Do you also think that everyone (millions) playing in their local softball league/football/basketball/soccer are all stupid and weird? Man what a careful little life you must lead. Like any other sport and any other type of athlete; cyclist ride because we love to ride. We race because we are competitive and have the need to express that in our chosen sport at racing level. That is not stupid! That is the very normal human desire to compete. The danger to injury lies in all sports and is not statistically worse in bike races. I guess we´re all stupid and your the only smart one.

 

[ultimobici]

Anybody who races a bike and doesn't do it for monetary gain is pretty stupid. Accidents, injury, travel expenses, huge time commitment for training are massive intrusions and negatives to one's life that guarantee anyone who races a bike should only do it for the money. And there's simply not enough money in amateur cycling to justify a doping program.

If people are racing for reasons other than money, then that's a bit weird, not to mention stupid.

If you'd qualified your comment by stating that "Anybody who races a bike, doesn't do it for monetary gain, and dopes is pretty stupid", I'd have agreed with you 100%. But to deride those who choose to race for fun is epically ignorant to say the least.

 

[WindLessBreeze]

LanterneRouge

I've raised the S.O.S. flag. Thanks for your support. I shall let Mister Pat, who is also a fanatic of CN (Or he should be, if he wishes to be updated on the cycling scene worldwide), look into this matter more deeply. Otherwise, well; He's up for re-election soon. And those of us who long for fair play are a larger segment of the sport. Why would anyone risk being banned for two years, then return to a team lower ranked than before (if at all); plus return salary and prize money and bonuses; Plus jeopardize his/her health and well being. Plus be looked upon with contempt by peers, family, and friends. (Not to mention financial supporters and country federations), etc. is beyond me. Josê María Jimenez, Simpson, VBV, il' Pirata, etc must agree now (theraputical drug users who graduated into Narcotics). Why Ullrich couldn't get married? He was BROKE! and alone. And free to speed things up on his own! The list is too large to pick on anyone.

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Kamikazes on two wheels

Typo: Therapeutical. Look upon UCI.CH: Banned Substances.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Yeah I know this will look like shameless self promotion, but I will only provide a link to a talk I gave at a writing workshop recently on the process of researching and writing a novel on doping in cycling. Mods, delete if you want.

http://shawnrohrbach.com/read/

 

[skippy]

read Shawn's article and added to my blog post . Press "publish " and first thing i see is an ad for "EPOboost" ! Google so desperate for revenue they use "Anti doping blogs"to sell Doping products ?

 

[zigmeister]

The International Cycling Union (UCI) should pay closer attention to doping in the lower ranks, where oftentimes controls aren't performed due to the high costs associated with them. Furthermore, elite cyclists in the third world, without medical support or knowledge of the side effects of such powerful drugs as EPO, 'ROIDS, HGH, etc. abuse them with the compliance of trainers and Director Sportifs. The pressure to attain goals (And Gov money provided to medal recipients) plays an important role in this fiasco. replies are welcome. At the moment, I'm conducting a case study in the Dominican Republic. As I write this, I have forbidden my children to ride, as they are clean and will not compete with junkies. Very truly yours, LanterneRouge

Windlessbreeze..that should describe your post.

Steroids (often synthetic testosterone, and HGH, also, a synthetic replica of what your body produces) has not proven to kill anybody that has taken it. So stop the drama and nonsense.

If it is so dangerous, you should be prepared to die any second now, because as you typed this post for the thread you created, your body was converting hormones to testosterone and GH. Gasp!!!!

EPO can screw you up if taken improperly. That is proven. Having high hemotacrit/hemoglobin levels can be dangerous due to blood clotting risks. Which eating hamburgers and eggs all your life can lead to also.

Gheez...the sensationalism with some people is crazy.

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Zeigmaster! Go and tell that to Zajizek, or whatever; that he was flying down under thanks to a burger and fries he ate just before noon! JaJeJiJoJu.....

 

[Anonymous]

SexMister

Not only that, WindLessBreeze. Ricardo Riccó had a pasta POMODORO and canolis for desert. And America's UCI tour leader, a Mapache dude, dropped BASSO & RIP Movistar 18 minutes, thanks to MATE. RIGHT