Sounds interesting. Dou you speak swedish? Would be cool if someone who speaks swedish could report us about this programm.python said:has this been posted ?
swedish SVT will broadcast next week a new documentary on doping in xc skiing. ‘it will explode the sporting world’, so said the producers.
explode or not (in fact, i doubt the thread‘s regulars will learn anything not already posted here), but saltin is again the source of suspicions. this time he is almost explicitly pointing the finger at the xc dominant northern neighbor.
my speculation is that we will again see the blood values from the saltin fis power point linked here several times.
anything new there ?
the article says some other indirect evidence will be shown (like trips home for alleged transfusions in the middle of world championships). more interviews too. but hardly any new conclusive evidence of doping. nor do i expect any new names revealed.
Dutch speed skaters and coaches said that about East Germans back in the late 80's. Openly suggesting it was made possible by doping.Kristian said:Charlotte Kalla confirmed something I have thought for a long time today. She trained with the Norwegian ladies this summer and was surprised by how much they trained. She said that they at least train 100 hours more then her yearly and need to train more herself.
link to the interview:
Congratulations to Dario C. Well deserved!!
I can possibly help out.Bavarianrider said:Sounds interesting. Dou you speak swedish? Would be cool if someone who speaks swedish could report us about this programm.
Rasmus Damsgaard likes the program, he observes. But there's a problem.
- The results they have received is analyzed using a machine that is not very accurate, says Rasmus Damsgaard.
It's about a so-called blood scanner. A machine that is no longer used in anti-doping work.
At first SVT did not know about this says Damsgaard.
- It was a misunderstanding. They had been told that it was a lab machine, but it was not.
- It makes the program go from being very good to ... it is almost as if one shrugs, yet again.
From interviews in Norwegian papers we know that SVT has also interviewed Erling Jevne and Inggard Lereim. And Ulvang says in his interview with Expressen that SVT tried to get hold of Bjørn Dæhlie, but he wasn't available, so instead they filmed his wife at their home. SVT has also interviewed the presidents of the Norwegian and Swedish skiing federations. They were shown an early version of the program last week. Rasmus Damsgaard, as anti-doping expert of FIS, was also present. A few days later Damsgaard gave an interview where he said SVT had been misinformed and thought the blood scanner used for the analyzes was a lab machine, and that SVT should rather focus on those with really high numbers rather than big names. When they now say they will focus on skiers with numbers over 17 that might be an indication that they are going with Damsgaards suggestion.(SVT) - One reason for interviewing him, was that he had very high blood levels. Another is that he is an authority in FIS. Therefore, we asked him questions. But during our current work, we got even higher values from other skiers. We set the limit at 170 and he was right under it.
Plenty on Lerheim? No. Anything? No.meat puppet said:be glad to read your thoughts Tore.
videman et al. - i think it is rather well established that there was something going on. cant substantiate anything in detali, but the claims made appear credible enough.
on a more general level, if the implication re saltin is even remotely accurate, the film paints a familiar picture: the supposed anti doping elite saltin, videman, lereim etc were in fact deep in the game.
not to urinate on saltin; but plenty on videman and lereim, though.
efficiency - it is obvious that it is more important in xc skiing than in cycling, and I for one think no one is implying otherwise. this on is a certainty.
and yet we have kowalczyk and we had muhlegg. against raw power you can only gain so much with efficiency. call it a returns to scale strategy, or something.
well, some things you can't explain away...
as I said, I value your contributions and will continue to do so.ToreBear said:Plenty on Lerheim? No. Anything? No.
Kyro wants everyone else to have been as guilty as he was. It's understandable. This is the original argument he used towards himself when he got into the doping bussiness. That those guys his guys beat were in fact clean is hard for him to accept. He is only human and needs some shrink time to accept reality.
The rest requires long debate. This I have the urge to go into, but that will cut into my XC enjoyment time. So I'll have to resist the urge to comment as best I can untill time allows me otherwise.
Now I'm going to have a cigarette, and put my 16,5 hgb/49,5% behind down in front of the TV.
Four sources of error:
Below we explain why hemoglobin values had large errors and should be interpreted with caution. It is largely on four factors:
1. The FIS blood samples taken before 2001 under widely varying conditions
give erroneously high values.
2. The measurements were carried out on bad instruments that had major errors and measured systematically too high values.
3. Several cross-country skiers have hemoglobin levels well above the population average and will naturally be above 16 g / dl for men or 15 g / dl for women.
4. Altitude training was done systematically in the 1990s, in both the Norwegian and Swedish team, could provide some of these athletes even higher hemoglobin values (for example, in the 17th century for men and 16 for women's), but it was performed some form of manipulation of the blood.
The feeling is mutual.meat puppet said:as I said, I value your contributions and will continue to do so.
Your first two original statements seem rather odd, but I don't have time to research(still remember I promised you a Hjelmeseth explanation too, I havent forgotten)Tyler'sTwin said:Let's keep in mind that:
High blood values are less common in elite endurance athletes than the general population.
Hb normalizes rather quickly when returning to altitude.
After the 170 g/dl limit was introduced, there used to be this one guy with a medical exemption. It is NOT common.
That looks like a good response. Now if only I had the time to read it.neineinei said:http://www.nrk.no/ytring/vare-skilopere-var-ikke-dopet-1.10929118
Ola Rønsen (former team doctor for the Norwegian skiing federation) and Peter Hemmingsson (former member of the FIS Anti-Doping Committee and team doctor for the Swedish skiing federation) hits back.
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