Doping in XC skiing

[python]

Andrus Veerpalu founded not guilty of using growth hormone by CAS today.

the details are not yet available (and cas servers are sputtering this morning) but this is a serious setback for the antidoping science in general and the fis in particular. several reasons...

first, if memory serves, the hgh test that popped veerpalu was the latest, 3d generation test on which high hopes were staked (including the london olympics) as everyone knows - hgh is widely abused.

second, fairly or not, the opinion of many, that fis is over-zealously chasing the eastern europeans while paying no attention a little further north, seemed now have gotten fresh legs

third, the cas complete vindication of veerpalu appears (again the details not available) to add power to veerpalu's fans who always argued that fis was biased and prejudiced when they slapped him with 3 years (instead of the standard 2) for 'extenuating' circumstances.

fourth, though on the surface unconnected, fis's anti-doping efforts may look inconsistent (just like my opinion of damsgaard in general) when they otoh, keep silent wrt to the epo-charged blood values from the 90s, while on the other hand, engaging in the adventurous pursuits of modern doping based on immature science.

 

[Von Mises]

the details are not yet available (and cas servers are sputtering this morning) but this is a serious setback for the antidoping science in general and the fis in particular. several reasons...

first, if memory serves, the hgh test that popped veerpalu was the latest, 3d generation test on which high hopes were staked (including the london olympics) as everyone knows - hgh is widely abused.

second, fairly or not, the opinion of many, that fis is over-zealously chasing the eastern europeans while paying no attention a little further north, seemed now have gotten fresh legs

third, the cas complete vindication of veerpalu appears (again the details not available) to add power to veerpalu's fans who always argued that fis was biased and prejudiced when they slapped him with 3 years (instead of the standard 2) for 'extenuating' circumstances.

fourth, though on the surface unconnected, fis's anti-doping efforts may look inconsistent (just like my opinion of damsgaard in general) when they otoh, keep silent wrt to the epo-charged blood values from the 90s, while on the other hand, engaging in the adventurous pursuits of modern doping based on immature science.

I have read full decision. He got away with technicality. It is a setback, but not major one.

 

[python]

I have read full decision. He got away with technicality. It is a setback, but not major one.

i just got a chance to download and rush through the relevant scientific and technical arguments. They start on page 38...in essence, although the panel ruled solidly in favour of the test reliability, they literally shattered into pieces the fis arguments about the adequacy/validity of the test decision limits. Which essentially means that the test science (or the statistical studies behind the quantitative thresholds to be more specific) have failed the legal test due to immature science.

In my book this going beyond a mere technicality

 

[Von Mises]

i just got a chance to download and rush through the relevant scientific and technical arguments. They start on page 38...in essence, although the panel ruled solidly in favour of the test reliability, they literally shattered into pieces the fis arguments about the adequacy/validity of the test decision limits. Which essentially means that the test science (or the statistical studies behind the quantitative thresholds to be more specific) have failed the legal test due to immature science.

In my book this going beyond a mere technicality

You are right and I stand corrected. Though they said in decision that there were several indications that Veerpalu doped, they decided against how decision limits were achieved. Now its up to WADA react quickly.

 

[Discgear]

The story has it that before the games the Finnish management contacted Tapio Wideman (FIN), who was then the vice president of the FIS medical committee. Twice actually, if I recall correctly. Wideman gave the green light and claimed that Hemohes would not be tested for, let alone detected. Didn't turn out that way.
After the first pop (Isometsä) the Finns learnt their lesson, though not immediately. But during the games they started to bring the blood values down with human albumin, just like the rest allegedly did. According to Kyrö the teams were very open about manipulating blood values downwards (and I buy that claim). But, of course, a) there were athletes glowing with Hemohes and b) because of the first pop, the Finns were tested with more accurate measures than was the standard.

Digging out an old quote from Meat Puppet, concerning the use of human Albumin to bring the blood values down, I think it’s time to adress what Jo Kristian Bergum pointed out in his Twitter yesterday, http://t.co/KCGAUOoE7N

Albumin seems to have been used frequently as a Plasma Expander to masque EPO-doping.

From Appendix M to USADA’s Reasoned Decision concerning Operación Puerto:
On May 22, 2006, Fuentes and his sister discuss albumin, the plasma expander used in doping to lower the levels of the different positive parameters during doping control

From Helsingin Sanomat:
At the time [2001], the disgraced skiers were suspected of attempting to lower abnormally high haemoglobin levels and mask the use of EPO hormone (erythropoietin, for which no test existed at the time) by means of the plasma expanders Haes-Steril and Hemohes (the "hes" stands for hydroxyethyl starch). Albumin is another well-known plasma volume expander.


In the earlier mentioned scientific report from 2003 by Ola Rønsen et al, Immuno-endocrine and metabolic responses to long distance ski racing in world-class male and female cross-country skiers all the tested Norwegian skiers, 10 men and 6 women beside the high HB-values, (mean value 16.4 for the men before the race, on low altitude, coming from low altitude) showed mean values of S-Albumin around 50. The natural range is 36-48.

 

[Samson]

CAS's statement sounds like they wanted to satisfy both parts.

"There were many factors in this case which tend to indicate that Andrus Veerpalu did in fact himself administer exogenous [human growth hormone]," yesterday's CAS media statement said.

One of the researchers on Veerpalu's defense team, Krista Fischer, who is a senior researcher for the Estonian Genome Center, spoke to ETV about the assertion.

"That sentence in the press release from CAS came as a big surprise to me because it was left hovering in the air. It was not explained in the press release or in the decision itself. So what were these factors? Right now the only numbers that seem to hint at doping are the same four numbers that have been deemed invalid by the ruling"

http://news.err.ee/sports/b2692b12-bf4c-48f0-9604-ec2f7e429a57

I'm bit biased since I'm estonian but It's really weird how it's been handled by CAS. Also FIS Secretary General Sarah Lewis interview to fasterskier.com, the part where she compared this case with speeding is just wrong.

http://fasterskier.com/article/fis-...the-basis-that-the-science-is-not-in-dispute/

 

[neineinei]

CAS's statement sounds like they wanted to satisfy both parts.

"There were many factors in this case which tend to indicate that Andrus Veerpalu did in fact himself administer exogenous [human growth hormone]," yesterday's CAS media statement said.

One of the researchers on Veerpalu's defense team, Krista Fischer, who is a senior researcher for the Estonian Genome Center, spoke to ETV about the assertion.

"That sentence in the press release from CAS came as a big surprise to me because it was left hovering in the air. It was not explained in the press release or in the decision itself. So what were these factors? Right now the only numbers that seem to hint at doping are the same four numbers that have been deemed invalid by the ruling"

http://news.err.ee/sports/b2692b12-bf4c-48f0-9604-ec2f7e429a57

I'm bit biased since I'm estonian but It's really weird how it's been handled by CAS. Also FIS Secretary General Sarah Lewis interview to fasterskier.com, the part where she compared this case with speeding is just wrong.

http://fasterskier.com/article/fis-...the-basis-that-the-science-is-not-in-dispute/

She isn't talking about speeding, she is talking about drinking and driving and the varying limits for detecting drunken drivers in various countries.

 

[Samson]

She isn't talking about speeding, she is talking about drinking and driving and the varying limits for detecting drunken drivers in various countries.

"In layman’s terms, it’s possible to describe the situation as that Veerpalu was caught doing 180 kilometers an hour, and the speed limit was 120. Then when they checked out the machine to measure speed, they showed that it may not have been accurate between 118 and 119, and at that speed it could be a case that there would be a false positive. And consequently, even though he had done 180 and that’s not disputed, he was nevertheless given the benefit of the doubt because there was a fault in the machine."

 

[Discgear]

However, for males #14 is not Norwegian, last time I checked. I think that should have been #8 (Estil) but cannot be 100% sure.

If we estimate 15.1 for Aukland as unknown. 14.5 for Sivertsen as his normal values, and 16 for Sørgård (source vg.no). All the others needed to be at their peak values from the dagbladet 2001 posting.

2 HJELMESETH Odd Bjørn 15.6 (peak dagbladet.no 2001)
3 DÆHLIE Bjørn 16.6 (Peak NSF longitude series)
4 AUKLAND Anders 15.1 (Unknown)
5 JEVNE Erling 16.7 (Peak dagbladet.no 2001)
7 SKJELDAL Kristen 17.5 (peak dagbladet.no 2001)
ESTIL Frode 17.5 (peak dagbladet.no 2001)
9 SIVERTSEN Sture 14.5 (vg.no as posted above - probably lower since since he was at around 13.3 1 week before)
10 SØRGÅRD Krister 16 (Says he used to be around 16 in this article http://www.rb.no/lokal_sport/article1340758.ece)
20 ALSGAARD Thomas 17.1 (peak dagbladet.no 2001)
34 BJONVIKEN Tore 17.5 (peak dagbladet.no 2001)

Average 16.41
Std.dev 1.07232872240228

This list is just pure speculation since one is unknown and 2 are highly uncertain. But for sure there are many above 17 to get an average of 16.4.

I would like to propose a slightly different angle, since 9 out of 10 skiers are confirmed and there are published normal values on 7 of those. Concerning DÆHLIE I’ve used a mean value of the 7 published values for him in the press-conference.

The ten male subjects finished their 50-km race at a mean time of 142 min (range 135–146 min), placing number 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 14, 20 and 34 among the 82 skiers that finished.

HJELMESETH Odd Bjørn 2 Normal: 14,5
DÆHLIE Bjørn 3 Normal: 15,4
AUKLAND Anders 4 (Unknown)
JEVNE Erling 5 Normal: 15,0
SKJELDAL Kristen 7 Normal: 15,2
SIVERTSEN Sture 9 Normal: 14.5
SØRGÅRD Krister 10 (Unknown)
ALSGAARD Thomas 20 Normal: 15,9
BJONVIKEN Tore 34 Normal: 16,0
The 10th skier (number 14) is unknown since the finishing number in the article doesn't add up.

The normal values are published in the following articles:
http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/2001/03/06/245493.html
http://www.tv2.no/sport/vintersport...tter-norge-til-suspekte-miljoeer-4007189.html
http://touch.vg.no/article.php?artid=6487

In the Holmenkollen 50 km classical race we had the following mean values:

Hemoglobin (g dL−1)
Before 16.4±0.8
After 16.0±1.0

I could'nt find any published values on Aukland and SØRGÅRD. Since the competitions in Holmenkollen was held at low altitude, coming from low altitude the weeks before in Falun and Lahti we should expect the values to be normal in Holmenkollen. For the 7 skiers with published normal values we have a mean value of 15,21.

Since there is nothing that points to circumstances that the blood values should have been anything but normal in Holmenkollen there is only two alternatives. Either most of the 10 male Norwegian skiers competed with highly raised values or either the three remaining skiers with unpublished values raced with a mean value of 19.5!

The article is very clear in how the values were measured, I’ve seen different theories in Norwegian forums with speculations about lacking procedures that would explain the high values. This is quotes from the article:

None of the athletes had any illness during the last 5 days before the competition and no episodes of illness were reported during the week following the race.

No high-intensity training was performed during the last 3 days before the race.

All the athletes performed 50–60 min of exercise at low to moderate intensity as part of the course inspection the day prior to the race.

All subjects completed their races at maximal effort, and reported no medical, physical or technical compli-cations during or immediately after the race.

During the race, the athletes consumed 100–150 mL of a 10% CHO electrolyte solution every 12–14 min, and the last serving was given approximately 10 min before the finish. From individual reports on fluid consumption at each supply station, we estimated a mean intake of about 1350 mL among the males (range 1200–1600 mL) and about 800 mL among the females (range 700–900 mL)

The pre-race blood sample was obtained immediately after the athletes had arrived at the stadium by car, approximately 60 min prior to start, and before any warm-up activity was initiated. The subjects were seated for 2–3 min before the blood was taken by puncture of a cubital vein. The post-race sample was obtained in the finish area, in a seated position, within 1 min of race completion

 

[figgelura]

Norway doped

Hi!
I am new in this forum but i have followed this and other threads on this subject. Since i am from sweden i always thought we and Norway never doped. But now there are too many loose ends that NSF could cut off if they wanted to if they are so clean as they say.

1. Why does three swedish scientists claim that they have norways all bloodvalues from on and off season when NSF say they never measured from competetive season. Prof. Björn Ekblom states that sweden never doped and shows swedens bloodvalues for the hole nineties in this article (http://ltarkiv.lakartidningen.se/2001/temp/pda23835.pdf) and he also claim norway also never doped but he felt it unnecessary to reveal norways numbers because they were exactly the same as the swedes.

2. Dr Lereim says he never saw any bloodvalues from Lillehammer -94 that indicated any form of doping. Dr Conconi doped the italians so high some flew right in to parlament. Manuela di centa and Fauner had hematocrit values as high as they can come without dropping dead on the spot coming in to the games in -94. This shown in "danskerlaegen" part 2. (http://www.dr.dk/Sporten/Dokumentar/Doping/20050530140756.htm)

3. Ola rönsen shows a study from Holmenkollen -98 and the numbers are very high but the most intresting is that he proves that HB dropes with 0.4 during the race. Since the general opinium has been that the HB can be sky high due to dehydration and so on. However this makes Dählies high numbers from Thunder Bay -95, meassured after the race, most credibel and if we consider the fact that it statisticaly dropes 0.4 during the race we can also raise his numbers equaly.

I can go on with this list but it is no point. The NSF can silence every body with a doubt like me if they reveal all there numbers in a credibel way. If they stay quiet it is fore me proof enough that they doped.

 

[figgelura]

Saltin

As for Bengt Saltins knowledge with doping and as an answer to all norwegian claiming Saltin to be a senile old *** read this article.

http://rrm.com/Newsarchives/archive12/12kenyandoping.htm

Than you read this.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...an-runners-blood-doping-performance-enhancers

He knows what he is talking about.
This is from a swedish thread in flashback forum.

 

[figgelura]

Studies shows capillary blood measures +0.5g/dl Hb compared to venous blood. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12132319

Additionally the HemoCue apparatus used in the 1990s-2000s is a very inaccurate device, with a bias towards high results. HemoCue consistently measures +0.5g/dl Hb compared to standard labratory blood cell count. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10778695

When you're done looking at the facts, one can hardly avoid realizing that the information revealed indeed serves as an evidence for Norwegians and Swedes being clean, rather than the opposite. [/url]

Well, i am now done looking at the facts and this is what i found. The evidence you are revealing is perhaps not working out in your favour. If you would have botherd to look at the first test in its whole and not only at a small conclusion you would see that they not only compared venous blood with capillary. They did also compare Hemocue to a automatic blood cell counter called Cell-dyn as a reference. This is a machine used in what you would say "standard labratory blood cell count". Here a link to the whole test you never looked at.

http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?pid=S0036-36342002000300005&script=sci_arttext

Here is a qute from this research "the difference in prevalence estimates based on Hb in venous blood measured by Celldyn and capillary blood assessed by Hemocue was not large (<2%) and our results confirm previous studies3 suggesting that the use of Hb estimated from capillary blood using Hemocue is adequate for anemia prevalence estimates in populations. It is important to note that highly trained laboratory personnel collected and analyzed all samples under ideal conditions (e.g. limited time between sample collection and analysis). Although this is not the norm for most field studies, similar conditions can be ensured in a field setting using strict protocols, adequate training, and quality control."

Intresting that they find it to be under 2% difference between venuos blood measured in cell-dyn with capillary blood in hemocue.

My point is that i can show you 50 result that state Hemocue showing great numbers and you can show me 50 result showing the oposite. This is why its funny when you are teaching everybody with your mathematical skilles in statistics based on results you know nothing about and/or bothered to find out. My question is why are we seeing such diverse result when hemoque is tested against automatic blood cell counter which nowadays is claimed to get the best testresult. When surching the web i found this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9121 ... $=activity (copy paste)

Here they took three bloodsamples and let six companies run a test in there Blood Cell Counter and the result is shocking. The result came back showing over 10% difference in reading red blood cells, hematocrit, white blood cells and so on.

How can this be.(http://www.doctorslounge.com/index.php/blogs/page/17172) In this link a doctor debates all the problems with counting blood cells.

Now i will do a statistic number like DUKOFF likes to do. If asumed that the Cell-dyn, used as a reference in the first test Dukoff showed us, was showing low and you now switch this to one of the machines showing 10% more you would get this result.

Björn Dählie Thunder Bay 175x1.1=192
Norway Holmenkollen -98 mean 164x1.1=180

Now how is that for a fact DUKOFF.

I think we all should let this to the scientists and state that Hemocue is when used right giving a fare statistical result just like the ones in the lab. This is probably why its impossible to get someone caught with doping based on high Hb. PYTHON is,as often, right when he states that before we know how the hemocue test were executed by FIS we dont know anything. If the test were conducted strictly by guidelines the result can be used as an indication of doping. And i need someone working with the tests during the nineties explaining how they were doing it. A statement from Bengt "bagdad bob" Bengtsson is not working for me. I find it pretty awful when DUKOFF claiming to know more about bloodoping and bloodsamples than people like Saltin,that have worked for more than 40 years with it. If you challenge a man that conducted studies in a subject it would at least be nice if you studdied the test that you means proves his word is bull****.

 

[meat puppet]

related to the events leading up to the lahti 2001 fiasco, kirvesniemi (!!), isometsä (!) and immonen finally got served. it's official they either were on EPO or aware of a team wide programme.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/former_ski_stars_convicted_of_perjury_in_decades_old_doping_scandal/6889968

oh, and the season's almost here

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

related to the events leading up to the lahti 2001 fiasco, kirvesniemi (!!), isometsä (!) and immonen finally got served. it's official they either were on EPO or aware of a team wide programme.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/former_ski_stars_convicted_of_perjury_in_decades_old_doping_scandal/6889968

oh, and the season's almost here

Yes, the season is soon here. Nordthug out with illness, so it is time for Legkov to take over the world!
Bjorgen to continue her world domination? Or some other Norwegian to take over

 

[jsem94]

Sick that three athletes were handed prison sentences. I can't believe it actually went down the way it did.

In other news... this Northug & Coop vs. Norwegian XC Team & Spar is getting interesting. It has been rumored that Northug might be left out of the Olympics squad because of this. I don't see them holding him back from there, and quite frankly, this sport needs a Northug in the Olympics.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Sick that three athletes were handed prison sentences. I can't believe it actually went down the way it did.

In other news... this Northug & Coop vs. Norwegian XC Team & Spar is getting interesting. It has been rumored that Northug might be left out of the Olympics squad because of this. I don't see them holding him back from there, and quite frankly, this sport needs a Northug in the Olympics.

thought his olympics were in jeopardy because of is illness?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Meh, as long as we have Legkov it's all ok. He won the globe for real skiing last year anyway.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Meh, as long as we have Legkov it's all ok. He won the globe for real skiing last year anyway.

amen
I do like Nordthugs extreme accelerations though, and how he won 15km individual start at the wc was quite extrodinary.

 

[jsem94]

Northug is like 60% of the sport publicity wise, and he is a good character for the sport.

His Olympics campaign shouldn't be too affected by the illness, but has lost about 150 training hours and 6 weeks of altitude training though...

 

[meat puppet]

Sick that three athletes were handed prison sentences. I can't believe it actually went down the way it did.

A standard case of perjury - they were found guilty of lying in legal proceedings. Nothing to do with them being athletes or even doping per se, technically speaking.

Also they will serve the sentences on parole. I thought that much was obvious in the news piece.

Re: Northug missing all that training should, by all means, be a huge handicap for him. If he trains 1500hrs / year (which I doubt) it's 10% overall plus missing a huge chunk of crucial time at altitude.

Probably wont make any difference whatsoever, tho.

In other news, Matti Heikkinen claims to be in good shape. We'll see.

Should probably ask this question in the cafe racing thread but any news on the swedes? How are they progressing?

 

[jsem94]

There's been some injuries and stuff too, but it has mostly gone well. Emil Jönsson has been sick for a little while now... he always seems to get sick, but he'll probably do well. He just has to stay out of human contact for a month up until the Olympics I think to not get sick. The same would also go for Olsson I think.

Richardsson has had a troublesome summer though. He was badly injured in a traffic accident, and he was also on a down period mentally because his friend died in that traffic accident. He's definitely on his way back though, faster than expected.

 

[neineinei]

After the Swedish documentary ''Blodracet'', the Norwegian Ski Federation in March proved that the Norwegians were clean in the nineties by comparing their blood values from the off season (June-November) to the blood values of the Russians, Finns, Italians etc. in competition and said they could get more data from two labs, but that they would have to get permissions from the athletes.

http://www.vg.no/sport/ski/langrenn/artikkel.php?artid=10108429

After thinking more the Federation decided it would not be a good idea to release more blood data. The release of blood data only leads to more speculations they said in October.

http://www.vg.no/sport/ski/langrenn/artikkel.php?artid=10127144

Today VG reports that there has been a break in at the lab of Olympiatoppen (the Norwegian elite sport center) and that blood data might have been stolen. Some lap tops and papers were taken, but they don't know exactly what is missing.

- If something's gone, I hope that it is not misused and rather that some frozen souls have used it to fire up a nice campfire, says Erlend Hem.

http://www.vg.no/sport/ski/langrenn/artikkel.php?artid=10145222

In other news: Mads Drange has quit his job in Anti-Doping Norge and written a book called ''Den store dopingbløffen'', 'The big doping bluff' which will be released in time for the Winter Olympics. Drange has interviewed Hasse Svens, who made the documentary ''Blodracet'', and Bengt Saltin. It is believed that the book will cover the weaknesses of the current doping testing, and how easy it is to beat the testing for cheaters. VG claims Drange wouldn't be able to write the book as a member of the Anti-Doping agency.

http://www.vg.no/sport/artikkel.php?artid=10136980

 

[Cloxxki]

Biathlon

Ole Einar Bjoerndalen at almost 40, back as the fastest man on skis. More training and marginal gains is the word. His fridge is located not far from Hochfilzen where we raced last weekend.

Soukalova in one week goes from top level to mediocre.
Same for the Austrian men. So fast a week ago, but on home snow, just not quite sharp. Odd.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Soukalová was only absolute top level at two WCs last year though - all her podiums were at Pokljuka or Khanty-Mansiysk. Everywhere else she was slightly below that. This isn't that out of the ordinary for her, post-mono or whatever it was that caused her to be completely anonymous in 2011-12. I remember calling her out last year and being told she'd shown some promise tail end of 2010-11 but lost most of the following season due to illness.

 

[Cloxxki]

Soukalová was only absolute top level at two WCs last year though - all her podiums were at Pokljuka or Khanty-Mansiysk. Everywhere else she was slightly below that. This isn't that out of the ordinary for her, post-mono or whatever it was that caused her to be completely anonymous in 2011-12. I remember calling her out last year and being told she'd shown some promise tail end of 2010-11 but lost most of the following season due to illness.

The way she fades from Ostersund to Hochfilzen is just surprising.

That said, I thought she'd be the new Neuner. The personality, the speed, and better shooting.