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Drastic Action Needed

Mar 5, 2011
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There are other recent threads related to the UCI, “Radio’s – Safety or Control of Your Riders” and “Time for Leaving the UCI” (closed); however, so as not to change the direction or “hijack” the former and yet expand on the topic, I’d like to begin a new thread.

On the issue of race radios, I’ve had the pleasure on many occasions to ride in team cars in ProTour and other professional races and believe it’s naive for anyone to say the director sportif’s are controlling their riders; mostly they offer encouraging words and advise of potentially dangerous conditions ahead on the road. When a rider has a flat or mechanical they can radio for assistance and the team mechanic can prepare to handle the mishap in a more timely and efficient manner. Coaches in almost every other sport by calling for a time-out or rotating players during a game and in the locker room at half-time do much more to “control” their players than a director sportif ever could during a road race. Would anyone suggest that coaches should not communicate with their players and thereby improve the sporting aspects of a basketball, football, ice hockey or any other competition? You’d be made a laughing-stock for even suggesting it.

In regard to leaving the UCI, ASO has run at least one large international road race without the UCI, they relied on the French federation to sanction their event; so there is an alternative available, but it means having a federation that is willing to buck the system’s hierarchy. Ultimately it’s the federations that elect the UCI President and its management committee; they’re responsible to make changes in the way the UCI operates. But the question is, do the federations represent the riders or mostly look after their own interests and self-preservation? I don’t believe the riders or members of a federation necessarily have the right to elect their own directors and officers. It’s a closed system and members are only entitled to purchase a racing license and then must subject themselves to the UCI/federation rules without a say in how things are done.

It’s totally corrupt that the UCI/federations have set themselves up a monopoly and as such are able to dictate how World Championship events are awarded and control access to IOC funding and systematically put their hands in the pockets of the race organizers, and sponsors, while extracting huge licensing fees from the teams and riders in order to pursue their careers and earn a livelihood. And it seems the importance of the riders’ and their concerns and the very sport of cycling itself is secondary. Rider advisory boards are merely window-dressing and the AIGCP is powerless, short of taking “drastic action”, to make substantive changes.

And although much attention is being given to the current fight on race radios, it’s much more than just this one issue and how the UCI can arbitrarily implement such rules. I would say the paramount issue with the UCI is their gross negligence in handling the doping issue; for year-after-year now they can do nothing right and for a time nearly destroyed the sport of cycling through their incompetence. Certainly it’s a problem that needs to be dealt with, but dragging these individuals and the sport of cycling in its entirety through the mud isn’t the answer. The science is often questionable, but more importantly the investigative process is conducted without respect for the individual and on full display of the media. It’s guaranteed to provide never-ending negative press without resulting in such practices ever being fully eradicated. It has resulted in occasional media blackouts and driven sponsors away, which further undermines a team’s ability to pay the costs of programs and adequate testing. So it’s not the solution.

New management is desperately needed at the UCI, but if the federations are unwilling to step up and tackle the problem, and I’d bet they won’t, then what can be done? Control has to be given to the broader membership, the right to vote by riders directly must be instituted for the election of every director in their respective federations and those directors held accountable for their actions in selecting management at the UCI. One suggestion to begin changing the direction of things is the idea Jens Voigt mentioned of boycotting the UCI Road World Championships. It’s a start and could very well get the UCI’s attention and be a catalyst to changing their practices. I believe it would also get the attention of the IOC and national governments to put pressure on the UCI. I do caution, however, that such “drastic action” should be disclosed to the host nation/city and race organizers well beforehand to prevent any financial hardship on them. Enough has already been done to undermine the health of cycling. We don’t need any more casualties than those few individuals sitting in power at the UCI.
 
Oct 8, 2010
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davidmlc said:
There are other recent threads related to the UCI, “Radio’s – Safety or Control of Your Riders” and “Time for Leaving the UCI” (closed); however, so as not to change the direction or “hijack” the former and yet expand on the topic, I’d like to begin a new thread.

On the issue of race radios, I’ve had the pleasure on many occasions to ride in team cars in ProTour and other professional races and believe it’s naive for anyone to say the director sportif’s are controlling their riders; mostly they offer encouraging words and advise of potentially dangerous conditions ahead on the road. When a rider has a flat or mechanical they can radio for assistance and the team mechanic can prepare to handle the mishap in a more timely and efficient manner. Coaches in almost every other sport by calling for a time-out or rotating players during a game and in the locker room at half-time do much more to “control” their players than a director sportif ever could during a road race. Would anyone suggest that coaches should not communicate with their players and thereby improve the sporting aspects of a basketball, football, ice hockey or any other competition? You’d be made a laughing-stock for even suggesting it.

It is against the rules in professional tennis for a coach to so much as even communicate with a player during a match. And in football, the technology exists to put communications devices in helmets. Yet they have not done so.

So those are two examples right there.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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TERMINATOR said:
It is against the rules in professional tennis for a coach to so much as even communicate with a player during a match. And in football, the technology exists to put communications devices in helmets. Yet they have not done so.

So those are two examples right there.

Yeah, because they really wear helmets in a football game.

Please chance your location to planet America instead of planet earth. Thank you very much.

Too bad it's not against the rules in tennis to lie about your whereabouts or to dope till you get a long embolism.
 
El Pistolero said:
Yeah, because they really wear helmets in a football game.

Please chance your location to planet America instead of planet earth. Thank you very much.

Too bad it's not against the rules in tennis to lie about your whereabouts or to dope till you get a long embolism.

Ah, the divine comedy as your signature. Brilliant. Please dont tell me you actually speak English Dutch and italian at our age though. That would make me jealous.

(this thread isnt going places so might as well).
 
Sep 27, 2010
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The National Football League uses radios in the quarterback's helmet. There is also one defensive player allowed to use a radio in their helmet. Both are used to listen to a coach in the booth or on the sideline.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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TERMINATOR said:
It is against the rules in professional tennis for a coach to so much as even communicate with a player during a match. And in football, the technology exists to put communications devices in helmets. Yet they have not done so.

So those are two examples right there.

NFL Quarterbacks have had radios in their helmets since 2007
 
Oct 29, 2010
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as has the Defensive captain on the other side.

it simply makes sense. you're giving the players on the field/riders in the peloton as much information as possible for them to do their job.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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cyclingPRpro said:
as has the Defensive captain on the other side.

it simply makes sense. you're giving the players on the field/riders in the peloton as much information as possible for them to do their job.

So you are arguing to have chess players wired up to a guy with a laptop? To make the best possible move, is after all, their job?

Or is there a point where you want them to make decisions based on their own capacities and insight?

Your "it simply makes sense" makes no sense to me, to be honest. Only if your assumption is that total awareness is an acceptable starting point. To me, it ain't.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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cyclingPRpro said:
as has the Defensive captain on the other side.

it simply makes sense. you're giving the players on the field/riders in the peloton as much information as possible for them to do their job.

American Pro football allows less than a minute for an offensive and defensive team to arrange 11 players, call a play and adjust as need be before the 1-5 violent seconds the action takes place. The coaches may initiate the play but after that point they cannot affect the play unless they call a time out, which are limited in number.
A Pro bike race, taking 4-7 hours seldom has any element that requires that immediate an adjustment. Most strategic scenarios should have been previously planned for and the riders can adjust their response because they can readily communicate without a 325lb. defensive lineman crushing their skull. Different game and irrelevant comparison.

The communication among riders historically was a vital part of team based cycling; as much as bikes having two wheels. Aside from the benefit of averting catastrophic accidents, introducing instant radio communication to all team members from the DS has dumbed-down the sport rather than improved it.
 
Oldman said:
American Pro football allows less than a minute for an offensive and defensive team to arrange 11 players, call a play and adjust as need be before the 1-5 violent seconds the action takes place. The coaches may initiate the play but after that point they cannot affect the play unless they call a time out, which are limited in number.
A Pro bike race, taking 4-7 hours seldom has any element that requires that immediate an adjustment. Most strategic scenarios should have been previously planned for and the riders can adjust their response because they can readily communicate without a 325lb. defensive lineman crushing their skull. Different game and irrelevant comparison.

The communication among riders historically was a vital part of team based cycling; as much as bikes having two wheels. Aside from the benefit of averting catastrophic accidents, introducing instant radio communication to all team members from the DS has dumbed-down the sport rather than improved it.

Great post! Glad someone gets both sports.
 
Francois the Postman said:
So you are arguing to have chess players wired up to a guy with a laptop? To make the best possible move, is after all, their job?

That is how they finally beat Kasparov.

Though it could be argued that the DS doesnt have access to the most important information - how the rider is feeling. Do they have it in them to make that attack etc.
 
Oct 29, 2010
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Sorry, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. 99% of the riders want the radios, they should have them. I didn't introduce the NFL comparison but it does show how other sports are utilizing technology to further communication.

Radios may make racing seem more boring to some, but for the people actually making a living doing it they are necessary tools. Radios make it easier for riders to communicate with the cars, staff up the road in feed zones and each other. And yes, be warned of potential hazards up ahead. But for you guys to say that every DS treats his/her riders as robots is extremely naive. really.
 
cyclingPRpro said:
Sorry, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. 99% of the riders want the radios, they should have them. I didn't introduce the NFL comparison but it does show how other sports are utilizing technology to further communication.

Radios may make racing seem more boring to some, but for the people actually making a living doing it they are necessary tools. Radios make it easier for riders to communicate with the cars, staff up the road in feed zones and each other. And yes, be warned of potential hazards up ahead. But for you guys to say that every DS treats his/her riders as robots is extremely naive. really.

I completely disagree with this point. They are not necessary as shown through the previous 80+ years without them. But as i and alot of others have said there is no need to go directly from one extreme (radios controlling riders) to the other extreme (no radios at all). The comprise is staring every pro-radio person in their face yet you will not accept that it should (is) the solution.
 
Oct 8, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Yeah, because they really wear helmets in a football game.

Please chance your location to planet America instead of planet earth. Thank you very much.

Too bad it's not against the rules in tennis to lie about your whereabouts or to dope till you get a long embolism.

So in cycling they really don't wear helmets? What's your point?

And yes, it is against the rules in tennis to lie about your whereabouts for out-of-competition testing, just like in cycling. And third, it is against the rules to dope in tennis.

Thanks.
 
Oct 8, 2010
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ericfalcon said:
The National Football League uses radios in the quarterback's helmet. There is also one defensive player allowed to use a radio in their helmet. Both are used to listen to a coach in the booth or on the sideline.

I stand corrected. But the NFL started this in 2008, well after the technology to install radios in helmets existed. What this means is the NFL consciously chose to do the same thing the UCI is currently doing despite the fact that technology allowed them to have helmet radios 15 years ago.
 
The Hitch said:
That is how they finally beat Kasparov.

Though it could be argued that the DS doesnt have access to the most important information - how the rider is feeling. Do they have it in them to make that attack etc.

The DS could be looking at the rider's heart rate and power output. They could pop a thermometer up the rider's butt and have realtime core body temperature transmitted back to the follow car. A poindexter could be sitting in the back seat comparing current data with recent training and racing data. Where does it end?
 
Oct 29, 2010
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BroDeal... that pretty much already happens. kind of... I personally feel that is more advantageous than radios.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Helmet radios have been used from coach to quaterback in the NFL since 84-85, in 2007/2008 the defensive version was approved by the leage and players union for use in games. Notice that last sentence, players union--NFL has a pretty strong players union, not as strong as MLB, but still rather powerful.

Until pro cyclist get a "riders" union that has direct impact on decisions that are made in races(I don't think something like this going on now), all those protest are rather silly to me. Get a union and when no one shows up to a race, such as a strike, which has happened in the NFL, MLB, NHL, then the UCI(or whatever the governing body is) will listen. Until then its just all static on the radio...
 
mikeNphilly said:
Until pro cyclist get a "riders" union that has direct impact on decisions that are made in races(I don't think something like this going on now), all those protest are rather silly to me. Get a union and when no one shows up to a race, such as a strike, which has happened in the NFL, MLB, NHL, then the UCI(or whatever the governing body is) will listen. Until then its just all static on the radio...

LOLZ. I would like to see how well a strike would work in a sport that relies on sponsors to fund the teams.
 
They want to take 'drastic action' about this but remained very quiet when the UCI / ASO stuffed Unibet around and drove a multi-million euro sponsor out of the sport and left a team full of their colleagues without races for a year.

Let em strike, doesn't bother me. Get some riders in that will race without radios.

The fact that they choose this subject to get all stressed about just makes them look like whining to$$ers. No one believes that is is a safety issue. They should choose a subject that the public will empathise with them about to strike about. Anyone think of one or two.....
 
BroDeal said:
The DS could be looking at the rider's heart rate and power output. They could pop a thermometer up the rider's butt and have realtime core body temperature transmitted back to the follow car. A poindexter could be sitting in the back seat comparing current data with recent training and racing data. Where does it end?

surprised that they're sitting in the back seat - could easily be in the team bus or some hotel somewhere doing all this, and still in communication with the DS.

it's all like Gorman in the movie Aliens where he and Ripley are watching the platoon's going's on from their ATV...

cap305lz3.png
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Race radios are the enth example of the corporate world invading every aspect of our lives.
Just wear your tinfoil hat and everything will be much quieter.
If corporate America was stuffing radios onto the peloton, getting them out would not happen. In order for it to be a proper conspiracy we have to be dependant on the corporation.
 
Jan 5, 2011
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Radios in the NFL

Two points about radio use in the NFL.

1. Only one player on the field for each team gets a radio.
2. The radios shut off before the play starts, typically as the teams are lining up before the start of a play.

One objection I have heard about removing radios is that before radios, DS in the team cars would drive up along side the bunch to relay info, which is dangerous. And with so many cars following, the driving in general was chaotic. If radios are banned, they should prohibit team cars driving forward to talk to riders. Force riders to have to drop back to the cars to get info, and having to chase back up to relay that info. I know they already do this for drinks etc., so not much of a change there.

A one way safety channel to the riders is the obvious answer to the safety concerns, but we all know that this radio conflict is a power struggle for control, not a safety issue.
 
Archibald said:
surprised that they're sitting in the back seat - could easily be in the team bus or some hotel somewhere doing all this, and still in communication with the DS.

it's all like Gorman in the movie Aliens where he and Ripley are watching the platoon's going's on from their ATV...

cap305lz3.png

I think it has already happened. After Schleck dropped his chain at the Tour and Contador rode away from him, I am pretty sure I heard him muttering, "It's game over, man. Game over."