Driving into cyclists the Emma way

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

I got hit yesterday on my afternoon commute home, by a girl in her mid 20's who simply made a right hand turn straight into me. I was following a car down a single lane of traffic and she turned immediately after the car had passed. Luckily I wasn't injured too badly and the girl who hit me pulled over straight away.

Initially I actually had to calm her down, she was so worried about my safety! She was in tears at one stage. I also had several people who saw it come forward and offer themselves as witnesses. I've already got all the necessary details for an insurance claim and I have to say that the reactions I've received have only been positive.

I suspect that once most reasonable people see the actual human toll, attitudes can change. Sadly my beautiful Johnson is written off after only 10 months Lucky I know the owner of the brand!

Bummer, but glad you are OK.

I had a few similar instances. One where a guy in a 4WD at a roundabout T-boned me. I made very sure that he had stopped, I even got direct eye contact with the driver who was looking right at my eyes and that's when I felt it was OK to proceed (even though I had right of way I just don't assume it's safe to proceed).

Nope, off he accelerated and collected me flush with the bull bar and I was flying sideways in the air still straddling the bike. Funny, my instinct was that "I can land this" but of course I was going sideways, not forward and I crash landed in the middle of the lane for traffic coming in the opposite direction. I was fortunate that the car approaching had time to stop.

In that case, while lying on the ground I had to beg the witnesses to stop and wait. Only one did.

My new custom made steed was 3 weeks old and was a write off.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

I got hit yesterday on my afternoon commute home, by a girl in her mid 20's who simply made a right hand turn straight into me. I was following a car down a single lane of traffic and she turned immediately after the car had passed. Luckily I wasn't injured too badly and the girl who hit me pulled over straight away.

Initially I actually had to calm her down, she was so worried about my safety! She was in tears at one stage. I also had several people who saw it come forward and offer themselves as witnesses. I've already got all the necessary details for an insurance claim and I have to say that the reactions I've received have only been positive.

I suspect that once most reasonable people see the actual human toll, attitudes can change. Sadly my beautiful Johnson is written off after only 10 months Lucky I know the owner of the brand!

Glad you're okay and it wasn't a hit-n-run!
Never good to damage your Johnson... too obvious? I'll get me coat...

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I got hit yesterday on my afternoon commute home, by a girl in her mid 20's who simply made a right hand turn straight into me. I was following a car down a single lane of traffic and she turned immediately after the car had passed. Luckily I wasn't injured too badly and the girl who hit me pulled over straight away.

Initially I actually had to calm her down, she was so worried about my safety! She was in tears at one stage. I also had several people who saw it come forward and offer themselves as witnesses. I've already got all the necessary details for an insurance claim and I have to say that the reactions I've received have only been positive.

I suspect that once most reasonable people see the actual human toll, attitudes can change. Sadly my beautiful Johnson is written off after only 10 months Lucky I know the owner of the brand!

Glad you're okay and it wasn't a hit-n-run!
Never good to damage your Johnson... too obvious? I'll get me coat...

All good, it was a sitting duck really

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

I got hit yesterday on my afternoon commute home, by a girl in her mid 20's who simply made a right hand turn straight into me. I was following a car down a single lane of traffic and she turned immediately after the car had passed. Luckily I wasn't injured too badly and the girl who hit me pulled over straight away.

Initially I actually had to calm her down, she was so worried about my safety! She was in tears at one stage. I also had several people who saw it come forward and offer themselves as witnesses. I've already got all the necessary details for an insurance claim and I have to say that the reactions I've received have only been positive.

I suspect that once most reasonable people see the actual human toll, attitudes can change. Sadly my beautiful Johnson is written off after only 10 months Lucky I know the owner of the brand!

Bummer, but glad you are OK.

I had a few similar instances. One where a guy in a 4WD at a roundabout T-boned me. I made very sure that he had stopped, I even got direct eye contact with the driver who was looking right at my eyes and that's when I felt it was OK to proceed (even though I had right of way I just don't assume it's safe to proceed).

Nope, off he accelerated and collected me flush with the bull bar and I was flying sideways in the air still straddling the bike. Funny, my instinct was that "I can land this" but of course I was going sideways, not forward and I crash landed in the middle of the lane for traffic coming in the opposite direction. I was fortunate that the car approaching had time to stop.

In that case, while lying on the ground I had to beg the witnesses to stop and wait. Only one did.

My new custom made steed was 3 weeks old and was a write off.

The whole "make eye contact" thing has never appealed to me as a safety measure. Just because someone appears to be looking in my direction is no guarantee that they have seen me; nor that even if they have, they will not proceed anyway.

 

[Stingray34]

Re: Re:

I got hit yesterday on my afternoon commute home, by a girl in her mid 20's who simply made a right hand turn straight into me. I was following a car down a single lane of traffic and she turned immediately after the car had passed. Luckily I wasn't injured too badly and the girl who hit me pulled over straight away.

Initially I actually had to calm her down, she was so worried about my safety! She was in tears at one stage. I also had several people who saw it come forward and offer themselves as witnesses. I've already got all the necessary details for an insurance claim and I have to say that the reactions I've received have only been positive.

I suspect that once most reasonable people see the actual human toll, attitudes can change. Sadly my beautiful Johnson is written off after only 10 months Lucky I know the owner of the brand!

Bummer, but glad you are OK.

I had a few similar instances. One where a guy in a 4WD at a roundabout T-boned me. I made very sure that he had stopped, I even got direct eye contact with the driver who was looking right at my eyes and that's when I felt it was OK to proceed (even though I had right of way I just don't assume it's safe to proceed).

Nope, off he accelerated and collected me flush with the bull bar and I was flying sideways in the air still straddling the bike. Funny, my instinct was that "I can land this" but of course I was going sideways, not forward and I crash landed in the middle of the lane for traffic coming in the opposite direction. I was fortunate that the car approaching had time to stop.

In that case, while lying on the ground I had to beg the witnesses to stop and wait. Only one did.

My new custom made steed was 3 weeks old and was a write off.

Was it a hit and run, then? Did the 4WD stop? Good to know you're OK.

42x16ss - glad to hear you're OK too, and that the driver was responsible and compassionate enough to assist you.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

The whole "make eye contact" thing has never appealed to me as a safety measure. Just because someone appears to be looking in my direction is no guarantee that they have seen me; nor that even if they have, they will not proceed anyway.

Oh I agree, but I figure if you know they are looking in your direction, then at least they aren't looking somewhere else and your chances of being seen are better. In this particular case the driver had stopped which gave the impression of full recognition of me, before he hit the accelerator again.

Was it a hit and run, then? Did the 4WD stop? Good to know you're OK.

The driver did stop fortunately. He received no warning of any kind despite witness reports.

 

[armchairclimber]

The reason I don't ride a bike now is that I was hit by a driver turning right 30 years ago. He looked me dead in the eye. Then he turned across me. I hit the wing, the windscreen and then went over the roof backwards with my bike still attached (toeclips). I then plummeted backwards, head first towards the tarmac, pretty much in the path of oncoming traffic.

Fortunately, I was a martial artist and had some idea how to land and break my fall. I was severely knocked up though. The driver protested that he hadn't seen me.

So the "he looked me in the eye" thing is absolutely an unreliable indicator of whether a driver has actually seen/registered you.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

The reason I don't ride a bike now is that I was hit by a driver turning right 30 years ago. He looked me dead in the eye. Then he turned across me. I hit the wing, the windscreen and then went over the roof backwards with my bike still attached (toeclips). I then plummeted backwards, head first towards the tarmac, pretty much in the path of oncoming traffic.

Fortunately, I was a martial artist and had some idea how to land and break my fall. I was severely knocked up though. The driver protested that he hadn't seen me.

So the "he looked me in the eye" thing is absolutely an unreliable indicator of whether a driver has actually seen/registered you.

I'm sorry that you stopped riding 30 years ago. That's sad.

It's hard to know how people might react to trauma and no response is right or perfect but it would be nice if people were able/assisted to "get back on the horse" so to speak but I can certainly understand those that don't. I know such things didn't deter me back then nor after a cycling accident resulted in a leg amputation, but perspective changes with time and I'm moving away from the city partly because I no longer feel safe riding here. Looking forward to getting to my new home which will be far far nicer location for cycling.

To be fair on the eye contact thing, a few anecdotes about looking in the eye being unreliable isn't enough to pronounce it as being an inadequate or unreliable indicator of whether a driver has seen you. It wasn't for me on that one occasion, but in the thousands of other occasions I engaged with the driver in this manner it seemingly worked OK. Whether this had anything to do with looking in the eye or not I can't say either but I don't think we can necessarily dismiss it outright because on rare occasions it may not work. It's simply one of a number of defensive riding mechanisms we all use to stay alive, not the only one.

If the opportunity is there to look at the driver's eyes and get a sense as to whether they are even looking in your direction, let alone an apparent acknowledgement of your presence, I fail to see why that's not at least a good thing to do along with other ways of being prepared for the unexpected or daft behaviour. Nothing we do on the road can completely cocoon us from the dangers presented by errant drivers.

 

[wrinklyvet]

I had to take evasive action yesterday to get on the verge out of the way of a lorry passing a bus where there was no room for me, so the risks of riding were in my mind when today I noticed this on the web http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6325463-police-lay-careless-driving-charge-in-jay-keddy-cycling-death/
With regard to a comment in that article I have been wondering what the stereotypical Ontario rider may be. Why does a respectable kindergarten teacher on his way home from work not fit that stereotype and does it make a difference?
Here in the UK cyclists come in all sizes and ages and there are many reasons to ride a bike, even though it's not as ubiquitous as in the Netherlands etc.
I take part in cycle sport on the open roads and there's nothing you can do to avoid an accident created from behind you, of course. Just hope for the best and for fewer close passes or worse.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

http://www.wral.com/four-pedestrians-struck-by-vehicle-in-johnston-county-/15398255/

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

http://www.wral.com/four-pedestrians-struck-by-vehicle-in-johnston-county-/15398255/

Another report on the same incident here http://abc11.com/news/cyclists-in-hospital-after-being-hit-by-car-in-angier/1209921/

In England we are not used to getting the detail up front in reports of accidents, in case it prejudices legal proceedings. This quite intrusive report seems to make it abundantly clear that the driver has no idea. She seems to have made a choice between hitting something more solid and mowing these riders down, but could have held back.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

"Why didn't she slow down? Why did she try to pass when it wasn't safe. The two seconds she would have saved passing them wasn't worth it. Just absolutely not worth it," said Phelps.

the $64million question... It seems that motorists just can't get their heads around this concept

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Preservation of human's lives is not at the top of the priority tree for many people. They may say it is but it's not when you examine their behaviour and actions. It's why i find strict liability legislation, with appropriate caveats, quite an appealing notion - it places the greatest responsibility on those with potential to do the greatest harm.

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

"Why didn't she slow down? Why did she try to pass when it wasn't safe. The two seconds she would have saved passing them wasn't worth it. Just absolutely not worth it," said Phelps.

the $64million question... It seems that motorists just can't get their heads around this concept

It is also simply ludicrous that the authorities have concluded that "speed was not a factor". Speed is ALWAYS a factor. Stationary objects do not collide.

 

[Stingray34]

Re: Re:

"Why didn't she slow down? Why did she try to pass when it wasn't safe. The two seconds she would have saved passing them wasn't worth it. Just absolutely not worth it," said Phelps.

the $64million question... It seems that motorists just can't get their heads around this concept

It is also simply ludicrous that the authorities have concluded that "speed was not a factor". Speed is ALWAYS a factor. Stationary objects do not collide.

You're right, of course, yet in this case I think they mean 'excessive' speed.

It seems to be a case of not giving room to the cyclists by waiting for a suitable time to pass them. It's a very curious phenomenon I've observed and experienced directly. I actually think it has less to do with not regarding cyclists as fellow road-users or lesser humans etc., I think it has something to do with a perceived 'motorists' peer pressure,' where they want to appear adequate, capable and confident drivers to other motorists. I think many people fear being honked at for their safe driving and decide to just wing it.

 

[wrinklyvet]

There's a feast of bad driving and attitude evident here and in the linked earlier report. Only a small degree of moral satisfaction is to be had from the outcome too. See http://road.cc/content/news/179900-middle-finger-councillor-who-ran-cyclists-road-resigns
A parish councillor should be a responsible person but this is the very bottom tier of local government in the UK and this man's resignation is, sadly, very minor news.

 

[42x16ss]

What are the chances that this guy was only doing the 40kmh school zone limit

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/24/16/17/teenage-boy-struck-by-car-while-riding-bike-outside-melbourne-school

Bet he only gets a tap on the wrist.

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

What are the chances that this guy was only doing the 40kmh school zone limit

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/24/16/17/teenage-boy-struck-by-car-while-riding-bike-outside-melbourne-school

Bet he only gets a tap on the wrist.

A recent study here in Vancouver found that on one stretch of suburban road, narrowing the car lanes caused drivers to reduce the average amount by which they exceeded the speed limit from 31km/hr to 17km/hr (due to an increase in risk perceived by drivers in narrower lanes). That's right, after the reduction, the average exceedance was still 17km/hr. Your suspicion that the the driver was speeding seems reasonable. Virtually all motorists speed virtually all the time, except when physically impeded by other motorists or by corners.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

What are the chances that this guy was only doing the 40kmh school zone limit

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/24/16/17/teenage-boy-struck-by-car-while-riding-bike-outside-melbourne-school

Bet he only gets a tap on the wrist.

A recent study here in Vancouver found that on one stretch of suburban road, narrowing the car lanes caused drivers to reduce the average amount by which they exceeded the speed limit from 31km/hr to 17km/hr (due to an increase in risk perceived by drivers in narrower lanes). That's right, after the reduction, the average exceedance was still 17km/hr. Your suspicion that the the driver was speeding seems reasonable. Virtually all motorists speed virtually all the time, except when physically impeded by other motorists or by corners.

The driver hit a child so hard as to smash the windscreen and damage the roof of the car! Scary to think of how fast they were going

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

What are the chances that this guy was only doing the 40kmh school zone limit

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/24/16/17/teenage-boy-struck-by-car-while-riding-bike-outside-melbourne-school

Bet he only gets a tap on the wrist.

A recent study here in Vancouver found that on one stretch of suburban road, narrowing the car lanes caused drivers to reduce the average amount by which they exceeded the speed limit from 31km/hr to 17km/hr (due to an increase in risk perceived by drivers in narrower lanes). That's right, after the reduction, the average exceedance was still 17km/hr. Your suspicion that the the driver was speeding seems reasonable. Virtually all motorists speed virtually all the time, except when physically impeded by other motorists or by corners.

The driver hit a child so hard as to smash the windscreen and damage the roof of the car! Scary to think of how fast they were going

 

[winkybiker]

Re: Re:

What are the chances that this guy was only doing the 40kmh school zone limit

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/24/16/17/teenage-boy-struck-by-car-while-riding-bike-outside-melbourne-school

Bet he only gets a tap on the wrist.

A recent study here in Vancouver found that on one stretch of suburban road, narrowing the car lanes caused drivers to reduce the average amount by which they exceeded the speed limit from 31km/hr to 17km/hr (due to an increase in risk perceived by drivers in narrower lanes). That's right, after the reduction, the average exceedance was still 17km/hr. Your suspicion that the the driver was speeding seems reasonable. Virtually all motorists speed virtually all the time, except when physically impeded by other motorists or by corners.

The driver hit a child so hard as to smash the windscreen and damage the roof of the car! Scary to think of how fast they were going

But in good old 'straya, the response to increase fines for cyclists' behaviour to insane levels, completely disproportionate to risk, and to carry out police "blitzes" targeting the most vulnerable road users.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclists-targeted-in-police-blitz-just-days-before-major-fines-take-effect-20160226-gn4d22.html

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Re:

"Why didn't she slow down? Why did she try to pass when it wasn't safe. The two seconds she would have saved passing them wasn't worth it....

The answer is really quite simple. At that moment in time, owing to the overblown importance they place on their own convenience, they adopt a willful ignorance of the peril to life their acts are subjecting the cyclist to.

Grandiosity as motive to manslaughter.

The whole "make eye contact" thing has never appealed to me as a safety measure. Just because someone appears to be looking in my direction is no guarantee that they have seen me; nor that even if they have, they will not proceed anyway.

...So the "he looked me in the eye" thing is absolutely an unreliable indicator of whether a driver has actually seen/registered you.

It's not just eye contact but that infinitesimally brief hesitation when eyes are locked on each other that signals an attempt to recognise that is the best predictor (indeed the only predictor) we cyclists have that a motorist has acknowledged our existence. Because somewhere in our DNA, there is a snippet of code that compels us to distinguish friend from foe at first sight. The Alpha-trigger for the fight-or-flight response is the unspoken communication that always occurs at first eye contact.

The joker in the pack remains the cager who has donned a mantle of invincibility, and to whom eye contact with the cyclist becomes a redundancy because he subconsciously recognises that a mere bicycle and rider does not, cannot pose a material threat to his safety. At which point the question becomes one of, is he looking at me or through me?

There are no guarantees. To quote aviation pioneer Wilbur Wright, "If you are looking for perfect safety, you will do well to sit on a fence and watch the birds." But if you don't place some trust in eye contact, the only logical options are to stop and wait for EVERY motorist to proceed, regardless whose right-of-way it might be, or to give up road cycling.

Which is why when a motorist pulls to a stop at a crossing intersection ahead of me, and if it makes me anxious that they don't give me my eye contact, I point at them, acting a fool, aggressively and repeatedly jabbing my index finger at them. Then the typical response is not just a briefly lingering eye contact but a slack-jawed and doe-eyed look of incredulity. Then there's no doubt but what I have their attention.

 

[winkybiker]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclist-knocked-down-in-alleged-hit-and-run-on-bridge-road-in-glebe-20160227-gn5ht8.html

No eye contact here. The speed of the motorist is excessive, but typical.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclist-knocked-down-in-alleged-hit-and-run-on-bridge-road-in-glebe-20160227-gn5ht8.html

No eye contact here. The speed of the motorist is excessive, but typical.

That's really disturbing. Not all that far from where I currently live. Explains one reason why I don't ride here much anymore and am so looking forward to moving to my new home soon. A hit and run as well.

Oh, and by the way - the current penalty for that is a minimum $2200 fine, 12 month disqualification of licence and potential jail term. Under the new "cycle safety" law (from 1 March) it's now a $319 fine and 2 demerit points. Hardly what I call progress.

If only he'd had his state issued photo ID in his pocket...

 

[Archibald]

Re:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclist-knocked-down-in-alleged-hit-and-run-on-bridge-road-in-glebe-20160227-gn5ht8.html

No eye contact here. The speed of the motorist is excessive, but typical.

I ride that stretch of road on my morning commute - you have to claim that lane down the s-bend that it is, but even that doesn't stop some idiots trying to pass you at 50kmh+. Its a 50 zone too.
Doesn't take much from Glebe Point rd and you're cruising at nearly 50kmh by the time you reach the 90 degree bend just before where that collision takes place.
I've had a dark green jag try to squeeze past me actually on the bend itself - I went from a good 2m from the curb to about 2 inches from it, with his car less than 6 inches from me at 47kmh... The ar$e-clown didn't turn his head while I was yelling at him, then he blew through the red light (about 50m past that bridge in the footage) to avoid me catching him at that intersection, no doubt...