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Driving into cyclists the Emma way

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Le breton

Nov 10, 2009
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Stingray34 said:
Real charmer this one

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bloodyc...victed-of-driving-offence-20131120-2xtz4.html

Seeing this dehumanising attitude more often in English-speaking countries.
Click to expand...

Way tweeted "definitely knocked a cyclist off his bike earlier. I have right of way – he doesn't even pay road tax!" using the hashtag #bloodycyclists afterwards.

I have right of way – he doesn't even pay road tax!"

I have heard that type of arguments so often when I lived in the States.

I don't have the words in English to express my disgust with this reduction of everything to monetary terms.

It really is a primitive attitude of uncivilised people.

Did she pay road tax when she cycled there as a child?

And then not stopping!!! Hit and run! Would she have stopped if she had hit a child?

What you say "Seeing this dehumanising attitude more often in English-speaking countries" is also true in my experience, I don't remember the road tax argument or equivalent being used in these parts of the world concerning the use of the roads, but I fear that the Anglo-US tendency of measuring everything in terms of £ or $ might also propagate elsewhere.

Never mind the fact that obviously in no country does the road tax pay for building or maintaining roads.
 
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Stingray34

Stingray34

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Le breton said:
Way tweeted "definitely knocked a cyclist off his bike earlier. I have right of way – he doesn't even pay road tax!" using the hashtag #bloodycyclists afterwards.

I have right of way – he doesn't even pay road tax!"

I have heard that type of arguments so often when I lived in the States.

I don't have the words in English to express my disgust with this reduction of everything to monetary terms.

It really is a primitive attitude of uncivilised people.

Did she pay road tax when she cycled there as a child?

And then not stopping!!! Hit and run! Would she have stopped if she had hit a child?

What you say "Seeing this dehumanising attitude more often in English-speaking countries" is also true in my experience, I don't remember the road tax argument or equivalent being used in these parts of the world concerning the use of the roads, but I fear that the Anglo-US tendency of measuring everything in terms of £ or $ might also propagate elsewhere.

Never mind the fact that obviously in no country does the road tax pay for building or maintaining roads.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, Le Breton, and thanks for posting. I have a lot to say on this subject in quite a bit of detail. I'm going to get onto it soon.
 
Stingray34

Stingray34

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RedheadDane said:
That's just horrible!

But the sad part; with all the stories like that frequently popping up around here; I'm not even shocked about it any more...

Why do some people hate cyclists so much?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I've been working on lately. There's many reasons, but all of them are irrational.

A little teaser: it's to do with fear of the other and a difference in attitude, choice, power, responsibility, culture and what's coming in the future for us all.
 
Avoriaz

Avoriaz

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Le breton said:
Did she pay road tax when she cycled there as a child?

And then not stopping!!! Hit and run! Would she have stopped if she had hit a child?

Never mind the fact that obviously in no country does the road tax pay for building or maintaining roads.
Click to expand...

In the UK there is no such thing as road tax. There is Vehicle Excise duty, whose expense is linked to engine emissions. As there is no engine on a bicycle there is no duty to be paid. Of course, the guy on the bike probably also owns a car.

After sentencing she said the tweet was her biggest regret. Not that she knocked a bloke off his bike
 
Archibald

Archibald

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The line of paying for [vehicle] registration is what's trotted out by Australian motorists - again, ingnorant that cyclists will be paying that for their own cars anyway.
Not that paying your rego goes towards the roads, which is also a common complaint - ie; "they're not paying for the maintenance of the roads they use". Complete tosh, as the money for that comes from councils and the government in general through council rates and general taxation... and not taking into consideration just how much deterioration bicycles cause to bitumen roads... :rolleyes:

unfortunately, too many idiots jump on that bandwagon without checking the facts first
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

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But the great thing about Australia is that if they did know they'd just try and find some other stupid excuse to treat you like sh!t.

I've even had some w@nker tell me to get off the road because my bike isn't roadworthy (no indicator, brake lights etc etc.) totally ignoring the fact that his ****box VS Commodore was a deathtrap rustbucket :rolleyes:
 
Stingray34

Stingray34

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Here's a nice one:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/21/wa-police-chief-defends-swearing-officer?CMP=twt_fd

In Perth, Western Australia, a cyclist was apprehended and apparently given an on-the-spot fine for an infringement we as yet do not know the nature of.

The cyclist in question also didn't know, and asked the Poilice officers in question. They were non-responsive and as they were retreating to their vehicle, the cyclist admonishes them with, "Go catch some f***ing criminals."

To see what happens next, please watch the video (if it's geo-blocked in your part of the world, let me know and I'll give you a rundown.)

Now, I don't condone speaking to anyone with that kind of language, nor do I know the nature of, or even if the cyclist has committed some kind of traffic infringement. I have no idea if the cyclist was cycling in a way that endangered either his well-being or that of anyone else. That kind of information has been unfortunately deemed irrelevant.

What is clear enough is whatever the cyclist has been accused of is of a far less serious nature than the police officer who not only warned the cyclist to stop swearing with a few blue words of his own, but also threatened his bodily integrity with what was likely to happen to him if he was to spend a night in the lock up.

Yet the police commissioner of WA, Karl O'Callaghan, defended his officer to the utmost with these words,

"He was under pressure from someone who is extremely cocky, had a very bad attitude ... the policeman was trying to do his job and he gets this tirade back. He lost his cool," the commissioner told Fairfax radio.

"This guy has accepted no blame for the escalation of the situation whatsoever. His total view of the world is it is somebody else's problem, they did the wrong thing and I was OK.

"The public have had enough of this general lack of respect for people in authority, and not just police."

How about a 'general lack of respect' for the rights of citizens that the Police force is supposed to uphold? Is asking for what one is being charged with an 'escalation of the situation'? If the Officer was frustrated with the cyclists attitude, isn't it understandable the cyclist was also frustrated with the attitude of the police officer's?

I hear this thing a lot, that cyclists are so cocky and arrogant for being educated enough to know what is lawful on the roads, for taking up a measly part of tarmac, for knowing how public roads are funded and their right to use them.

Yet being arrogant and ignorant enough to claim another human being is fair game on the road because the only motor their vehicle uses is heart, lungs, muscle, not to mention an awful lot of brains, is justified.

There's a neat little quote that sums up the arrogance of disciplinary power:

'The general judicial form that guaranteed a system of rights that were egalitarian in principle was supported by these tiny, everyday, physical mechanisms, by all those systems of micropower that are essentially non-egalitarian and asymmetrical that we call the disciplines.'
Foucault, M, 'Discipline and Punish,' 1977, p.222.

Are you angry yet? More to come on this score.

EDIT: apparently the police officer's action have received an outpouring of support. That's very troubling news if you're a cyclist. If the media can make you out to be less than human because of the form of transport or leisure you choose in a free democracy, then pretty bad things can happen. When Govt bodies start getting moral, our democracy is in very bad shape.
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

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That's disgusting to hear, especially that it happened here :( The thing is though, it was Perth, so chances are the guy was doing something pretty darn stupid.

The problem here in Perth is that there is almost no road racing what so ever, its either Masters only in Fremantle or at least an hour or so away down south. This means that there are no bunch rides, no sir, only large, fast, messy groups of inexperienced cyclists trying to drop each other every time they ride.

On top of this, there are lots of everybody's favourite specimen - the triathlete. These guys are frequently seen hammering the well used bike paths around town at ridiculous speeds, usually in the aerobars, abusing and claiming right of way whenever there's an obstruction - kids, oldies on hybrids, runners, pedestrians etc. The amount of tri geeks here is downright scary.

Since I moved here from Brisbane just over a year ago I've lost count at the amount of times I've drifted to the back of a bunch and just gone and done my own session out of fear, or embarassment. If didn't know a few people over here from my early racing days I'd spend just about all my time training alone because the real racers (road and Triathlon) are usually doing their own thing, nowhere to be seen, because they don't want the local hammerhead gumbies getting in the way and causing issues.

There are a couple of groups and clubs on the right track (South Perth, Roue Chaudes, Break Your Limits are a few) but they have a long road ahead as there is a shortage of experienced coaches and mentors.

So, long story short, unfortunately cyclists in Perth have given themselves a pretty bad reputation by themselves :(

SittingBison (or anyone else here in Perth) - What are your experiences here like?
 
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Archibald

Archibald

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42x16ss said:
But the great thing about Australia is that if they did know they'd just try and find some other stupid excuse to treat you like sh!t.

I've even had some w@nker tell me to get off the road because my bike isn't roadworthy (no indicator, brake lights etc etc.) totally ignoring the fact that his ****box VS Commodore was a deathtrap rustbucket :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I can give you countless examples of similar experiences - pretty much one on every ride here in sydney. Getting yelled at to get off the road by turkeys on the other side of the road and going in the opposite direction is one of the more mystifying ones, although a regular occurence.

Our biggest problem is that our very lives are dependent upon these same very ignoramouses when out on the roads...
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

May 23, 2009
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Archibald said:
I can give you countless examples of similar experiences - pretty much one on every ride here in sydney. Getting yelled at to get off the road by turkeys on the other side of the road and going in the opposite direction is one of the more mystifying ones, although a regular occurence.

Our biggest problem is that our very lives are dependent upon these same very ignoramouses when out on the roads...
Click to expand...
That's why I used to spend my summers in Brisbane back when I was racing NRS. 20-30 minutes and you're on wide open semi rural roads, or at least ones with good size shoulders, multiple lanes and low traffic.

Sydney's far too spread out, with too much traffic to train well, unless you like putting your life in other peoples hands.
 
Archibald

Archibald

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I still maintain that the only way to improve the driving culture towards cyclists is to make every learner driver spend at least 6 months riding a bike, and thereby gaining an appreciation of what it's like out on the roads.
Of friends I've helped get into riding, it's been very interesting that all have changed the way they drive...
 
StyrbjornSterki

StyrbjornSterki

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We are a class discriminated against. We are neither motorist nor pedestrian, and the laws created for the protection of either are misplaced when applied wholesale to bicyclists.

For lack of understanding (or perhaps lack of caring), they subject bicyclists to laws that are unreasonable and in some cases needlessly put the bicyclist at more risk (by increasing the certainty of placing cyclists in conflict with motorised traffic), then choose to call us scofflaws because we act in the interest of our own safety.

Telling cyclists that we can cure the problem by simply demonstrating to the motorists what model citizens we are by scrupulously obeying the traffic laws is like telling Blacks in 1950s America that the best way for them to bring about the end of the ("separate but equal") Jim Crow laws is by meekly complying with them.

The problem lies not with the behaviour of bicyclists, the problem is in a society that can produce adults who are so preoccupied, so self-centered, and so lacking in self-awareness that they are dismissive of a fellow human, and display a callous disregard for their right to life, simply because they do not agree with their choice of transportation, which might cause them to be late getting to the nail salon.

In most of the civilised world, it now is looked down upon to diminish the worth of another human because of their race or ethnicity or religion. Unfortunately, this philosophy has not yet carried over to members of the Cult of the Bicycle.
 
RedheadDane

RedheadDane

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I guess I might be sorta... spoiled... in that department. But sometimes I see pictures of bike lanes in the US and my main reaction is basically "You calling that a bike lane? :eek:"

bike+lane.jpg
 
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Archibald

Archibald

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42x16ss said:
That's why I used to spend my summers in Brisbane back when I was racing NRS. 20-30 minutes and you're on wide open semi rural roads, or at least ones with good size shoulders, multiple lanes and low traffic.

Sydney's far too spread out, with too much traffic to train well, unless you like putting your life in other peoples hands.
Click to expand...

I usually like going to Adelaide for that very reason.

42x16ss said:
That's a typical "bike lane" here in Australia too and many motorists begrudge giving up that much :mad:
Click to expand...

it's all about the car here in sydney - can't work out why they're not embarrassed by how sh*t the public transport setup is here. Utterly woeful...
 
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42x16ss

42x16ss

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Archibald said:
I usually like going to Adelaide for that very reason.



it's all about the car here in sydney - can't work out why they're not embarrassed by how sh*t the public transport setup is here. Utterly woeful...
Click to expand...
Adelaide is superb, Perth is alright too - if you can find a group that doesn't turn every single ride into a smash session :rolleyes:

The train system in Sydney is pretty good actually, but if you don't live near the line you're more or less stuffed. Especially in the inner eastern suburbs, where the bus services are woefully unreliable.
 
M

movingtarget

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RedheadDane said:
Hmm... Movingtarget, just realised something about your user name; from what I read around here it seems some people consider cyclists just that.
Intentional?
Click to expand...

Well when I first thought about a user name that name came to mind immediately. I am not an active cyclist at the moment and have not been for years but now that I am starting to look like a slimmed down version of Jabba The Hut and sit in front of a computer terminal all day at work, I am actually probably going to buy a new bike after giving away all of my previous equipment away to the local racing club. It is a subject that irritates me and I knew a few people personally that were killed when I was racing in the local club. One was my best friend, killed at the age of 19 by a drunk driver driving at night without his lights on and he did not stop nor did he go to jail. It was mainly having to commute to work that stopped me riding and I did not want to train at night time.

I loved racing but the training was a chore mainly because of the traffic and attitudes, even on quiet roads there were problems. I was one of the lucky ones, I never had a serious accident, severe gravel rash was the worst I suffered and that was in a race. Others including my friend had it much worse. So I guess your assumption is a correct one.
 
BigMac

BigMac

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Stingray34

Stingray34

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Flouro clothing doesn't help, according to this study

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act...othing-wont-help-cyclists-20131127-2y9jl.html

Great quote here: “It’s about remembering that we are all people. At the end of the day there are people who are aggressive on the road… whatever mode of transport they are using. Most of the people you see on bikes on the road will also drive cars at some time,”

As always, the comments section is illumanitive. Thanks everyone for the input. I have a long piece in development on this, hope to post soon. I'd love to hear more from cyclists in non-English speaking countries where the aggro is less felt. Thank you to Le Breton for your input in this regard.

Edit: and red headed dane! Sorry if I've left you out...will make amends!
 
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