Dropping implicated riders from the Giro

[Mrs John Murphy]

Lampre and Quick Step have announced that they are not including riders named Mantova-based doping investigation in their Giro squads.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-mantova-investigation-riders-in-lampre-isd-giro-ditalia-team

Now, agreed that it is a bit tough to take Lampre too seriously when they include Petacchi and Scarponi in their squads.

But the question is will other squads follow their lead - or will we see more teams happy to let the dopers ride:

BMC-Phonak 2.0 have Ballan and Santambrogio
Movistar have Bruseghin

Add into that you have the following under investigation/charged:

Saxo - Dertie Cont
Cack - Popovych
Sky - Possoni,
ISD - Visconti

It's pretty clear that BMC have decided which side of the fence they are on and they are clearly not going to drop Ballan, likewise, it's unrealistic to expect Cack or Saxo to throw anyone under the bus. Sky's anti-doping rhetoric is fast becoming just that - PR spin.

 

[movingtarget]

So, I'm wondering if the TDF organisers will also enforce the bans if the investigation is not completed before the race starts ?

 

[Benotti69]

Lampre and Quick Step have announced that they are not including riders named Mantova-based doping investigation in their Giro squads.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-mantova-investigation-riders-in-lampre-isd-giro-ditalia-team

Now, agreed that it is a bit tough to take Lampre too seriously when they include Petacchi and Scarponi in their squads.

But the question is will other squads follow their lead - or will we see more teams happy to let the dopers ride:

BMC-Phonak 2.0 have Ballan and Santambrogio
Movistar have Bruseghin

Add into that you have the following under investigation/charged:

Saxo - Dertie Cont
Cack - Popovych
Sky - Possoni,
ISD - Visconti

It's pretty clear that BMC have decided which side of the fence they are on and they are clearly not going to drop Ballan, likewise, it's unrealistic to expect Cack or Saxo to throw anyone under the bus. Sky's anti-doping rhetoric is fast becoming just that - PR spin.

Lampre and quickstep are probably appeasing sponsors.

 

[Anonymous]

The trouble is we have the situation where italian law requires people to be named when they are investigated regardless of wether they are involved, not involved, possibly involved.

Which leaves the problem of innocent till proven guilty on all the riders.

Technically the riders who have been named are guilty of nothing and are therefore free to ride, however, if somewhere down the line they are found guilty then that will come back to haunt the teams.

Down to the teams to make a judgement call in each case, and be prepared to live with the consequences.

Trouble is, this isnt like Puerto were we had blood bags, names, records etc. We have no idea what the reason is for the investigation of each individual rider. Could be because they are suspected of doping, could be because they were on a team were there was doping, could be because they roomed with a rider known to be doping. Thats the trouble with the italian law. (But all credit to the italians for trying to do something about the problem)

Personally, I think the individual riders are free to ride. I think that Lampre for instance are being careful because they have actually been named as a team as being investigated, rather than just having individual riders named.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think it depends very much on who you are and how likely you are to win.

Dertie, Scarponi, Ballan, Visconti etc are the leading riders for their teams, so they are allowed to ride.

Likewise, organisers will be happy to welcome 'name' riders

Benotti - I am sure they are - especially as they are including Scarponi and Petacchi.

 

[Benotti69]

I think it depends very much on who you are and how likely you are to win.

Dertie, Scarponi, Ballan, Visconti etc are the leading riders for their teams, so they are allowed to ride.

Likewise, organisers will be happy to welcome 'name' riders

Benotti - I am sure they are - especially as they are including Scarponi and Petacchi.

I wonder whether Scarponi and Petacchi do their 'training' outside the team therefore not withdrawn or a possibility they have something in their contracts.

But Lampre probably felt it had to do something to make it look like they were anti doping. Cunego will be riding the TdF

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think if they dropped Scarponi and Ale-Jet they wouldn't be worthy of their invite as it would take out most of their team.

The question is - will pressure be put on the other teams especially BMC to drop their implicated riders. Or will Och be able to get away with the same old BS as ever.

 

[hrotha]

If Scarponi isn't being officially investigated and they drop him from the Giro squad, what then? When can he start a race again? When he's cleared? But he's not officially being investigated, that won't do. Never again? Hello lawsuit.

Things are not that easy.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

If Scarponi isn't being officially investigated and they drop him from the Giro squad, what then? When can he start a race again? When he's cleared? But he's not officially being investigated, that won't do. Never again? Hello lawsuit.

Things are not that easy.

And what happens if (as these things usually do) the balloon goes up mid-race?

The same goes for Popovych? Not charged but certainly under-investigation.

What about Petacchi?

It would IMO be easier to have a hard and fast rule, rather than have a 'make it up on the spot' system that we have at the moment.

 

[Benotti69]

And what happens if (as these things usually do) the balloon goes up mid-race?

The same goes for Popovych? Not charged but certainly under-investigation.

What about Petacchi?

It would IMO be easier to have a hard and fast rule, rather than have a 'make it up on the spot' system that we have at the moment.

Maybe tv ratings go up with doping scandals! I haven't a clue why Petacchi and Scarponi get to ride and the others are dropped. Bet that makes for a happy Lampre team.

It does make a mess of the sport, all these riders implicated in doping but yet riding and should they affect the outcome of race at some point during the investigation what then? Crazy!!!

 

[hrotha]

Maybe tv ratings go up with doping scandals! I haven't a clue why Petacchi and Scarponi get to ride and the others are dropped. Bet that makes for a happy Lampre team.

It does make a mess of the sport, all these riders implicated in doping but yet riding and should they affect the outcome of race at some point during the investigation what then? Crazy!!!

I'll give you Petacchi, but Scarponi has not been named in an investigation. Seriously, is this so hard a concept to grasp?

 

[brianf7]

I think they have been left out so the teams are not bombarded by the italian drug squads every night during the race.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think they have been left out so the teams are not bombarded by the italian drug squads every night during the race.

I'd have thought that the likes of Dertie, Petacchi, Scarponi, Popovych etc are much bigger targets for investigation by the police.

 

[Benotti69]

I'll give you Petacchi, but Scarponi has not been named in an investigation. Seriously, is this so hard a concept to grasp?

he may not have been named but he was raided next best thing.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

BMC decide to pull Ballan and Mauro S again.

 

[Oldman]

I'd have thought that the likes of Dertie, Petacchi, Scarponi, Popovych etc are much bigger targets for investigation by the police.

They may be on this Spring's agenda for the Carbineri. This Giro could be dramatic for the level of rider scrutiny by the law, don't you think?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

They may be on this Spring's agenda for the Carbineri. This Giro could be dramatic for the level of rider scrutiny by the law, don't you think?

Which makes me think - if you are Dertie do you risk it?

Afterall, they still haven't (or have they?) retested those Giro samples from 2008 when Dertie beat a CERA'd up Ricco, DDL and Sella.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

I started to read the headline about Kennaugh coming into the Giro squad for Possoni. But then I realised it wasn't for Possoni but Pauwels.

Puts them in a bit of a hole if they then want to drop Possoni.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I started to read the headline about Kennaugh coming into the Giro squad for Possoni. But then I realised it wasn't for Possoni but Pauwels.

Puts them in a bit of a hole if they then want to drop Possoni.

Well - BMC, QS, Leaky and Lampre have dropped their implicated riders. According to the Ballan story - Movistar are under a lot of pressure to drop MB.

Which leaves Sky and Cack as the laggards.

 

[Frosty]

Well - BMC, QS, Leaky and Lampre have dropped their implicated riders. According to the Ballan story - Movistar are under a lot of pressure to drop MB.

Which leaves Sky and Cack as the laggards.

Depends what they are implicated in though i think. As far as i can see the riders dropped so far are the ones involved in the Lampre 2009 investigation. I dont think anyone has been dropped yet who has appeared to be in the Armstrong/Ferrari investigation? Scarponi is still riding for Lampre.

 

[hrotha]

Well - BMC, QS, Leaky and Lampre have dropped their implicated riders. According to the Ballan story - Movistar are under a lot of pressure to drop MB.

Which leaves Sky and Cack as the laggards.

Funny thing about Movistar. Unzue's team always seemed to be extremely careful about doping, apparently avoiding all scandals (even Puerto, even though Mancebo's involvement was when he rode for Banesto) and with almost no positives (Fertonani, Rui Costa, and...?). But in the last few years it would seem there's been a shift and they're taking bigger and bigger risks even in the PR department: rescuing Plaza from Portugal, supporting Valverde to the bitter end and then some, having people like Ventoso or the rumours about intending to sign Pellizotti.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Funny thing about Movistar. Unzue's team always seemed to be extremely careful about doping, apparently avoiding all scandals (even Puerto, even though Mancebo's involvement was when he rode for Banesto) and with almost no positives (Fertonani, Rui Costa, and...?). But in the last few years it would seem there's been a shift and they're taking bigger and bigger risks even in the PR department: rescuing Plaza from Portugal, supporting Valverde to the bitter end and then some, having people like Ventoso or the rumours about intending to sign Pellizotti.

Perhaps lack of results means they are taking bigger chances. With PT licenses being so results driven they need riders who can get them points.

Maybe they've looked at other teams who have been brazen about doping and dopers ie Astana, HTC etc and said screw it.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Sky do include Possoni.

Meanwhile 'Future GT Contender' Kennaugh is going to be used as a lead out man for 'Sprint Specialist' Russell Downing.

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Shows how worthless Sky's anti-doping stance is.

Mick 'friends of Ferrari' Rogers.
Possoni

What was it Prentice Steffan was saying about perception being more important than reality.

 

[maltiv]

Seriously the Possini case could just be that he was living close to a doctor who was dealing drugs for example, we haven't seen anything that implies that he is guilty, have we? You might be investigated if you were close to a robbery but that doesn't make you a criminal...I still believe they should have excluded him from the team though but it's not a big deal, unless the investigation actually contains some sort of evidence.