E3 Saxo Classic 2024, one day classic, March 22

[tobydawq]

Fair enough, I enjoyed it because I felt there was tension from Arenberg onwards. But I don't think it was objectively terrible, and much better than some of the 2010s (ofc not 2015).

You mean 2016, right?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Roubaix was good until Van Der Poel had to crash out the 57 year old fan-favourite with one of his trademark dirty moves.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I think that's unfair, this is possibly Van der Poel's most dominant ever classics win other than Glasgow. He's always been a bit better than the rest, this was a LOT better than the rest.

nah, the result was just elevated because of WVA's fall. Otherwise he'd be 2nd at like 30s-1m. Which is about the same as I expect.

I think it's mainly MVDP has been less than his best a few seasons in a row. 2020 he overtrained during covid and started the autumn fatigued.
2021 back issues already before OS and worsened after OS fall.
2022 just back from the back issues

Last year was his first real good year with no issues whatsoever. Obviously he'd get stronger from that + another good winter.

 

[proffate]

Same 3 dudes win everything that matters and the gap is only getting bigger. Barely a point to tuning in any more other than bad habit.

Samremo is the only oultier, and that was just One Of The Three deciding to be kingmaker for the dirtiest sprinter in the peloton.

I will admit I am salt, but I basically miss the Froome days at this point

I don't think mvdp had much chance to win MSR after the Poggio (unless he could pull off another AGR finish). He had to chase the attacks because no one wanted to go to the line with him and no one else would help him chase. It was just luck that he had Jasper there to ride for.

 

[Nick2413]

I don't think mvdp had much chance to win MSR after the Poggio (unless he could pull off another AGR finish). He had to chase the attacks because no one wanted to go to the line with him and no one else would help him chase. It was just luck that he had Jasper there to ride for.

True. Although I do think he could have been more aggressive on the descent to go Mano a Mano with Pogacar, but maybe he was too gassed.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Pedersen always seems to waste energy with a lot of useless attacks. Last year at Flanders was an intelligent move that was about to pay off.

But today again. Lots of small digs that were completely unnecessary. Like the group behind is about to catch Van Der Poel. The Dutchman even sits up. But Pedersen wents in pursuit solo.

Then there's no fuel left, when the flight off takes place of course. Misses a bit of race insight IMHO!

he is just trying to anticipate and go before VDP/WVA etc. He did the same last year in rvv. but as i said, anticipating lost it's cause when the big guns just open up at 90/80 to go

 

[jmdirt]

Maybe MVDP didn't want that sponsorhip?

Hard to fathom that Red Bull didn't try at some point to have him as one of their athletes, specially given his notoriety in Mountain Biking, where the bulk of Red Bull cycling sponsorship traditionally is/was.

I think that his girlfriend did some social media adverts for Monster Energy on the past tho.

...and MvdP (part) owns a supplement company...

 

[CyclistAbi]

Dominant win by Mathieu and devastating mistake by Wout.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Rose tinted glasses – I don't understand why we are forgetting a good spell of 2010s being way, way worse for classics. Ronde 22 and Ronde 23 were better than almost every Ronde of the 2010s. Paris Roubaix last year was excellent, as was the year Colbrelli won. We had 100km of action last year! And no winner until carrefour d'arbre. Liege was also awful awful awful in the 2010s.

Amstel is so much better now, too!

Liège was the same version of the same bad race in 2022 and 2023. Roubaix was already usually awesome in the 2010s and therefore hasn't really changed much, also last year's race had very little happen after the initial split until the decisive mechanical. Amstel already came good in the 2010s once they changed the route for the 2017 edition and last year's edition was the worst on the current route - 2022 was good, perhaps also because the happy few skipped it. Ronde usually had a/the decisive moment on Hotond in the 2010s, before the final Kwaremont/Paterberg duo - I will concede that 2021, 2022 and 2023 were better than the majority of 2010s editions, though the 2020 edition was godawful (also, 2017 would easily have beaten the lot had jacketgate not happened, but that's a different story).

Look, I'm not saying that everything has become worse because it obviously hasn't. But what has gone missing from the classics, especially on the cobbles, is the dynamism. In the 2010s (and prior) you usually had 10-20 riders who could realistically play a decisive role, and therefore you got different dynamics in almost every race in every year. Currently, that pool is down to a maximum of 5 riders for nearly any given race, and so you see similar situations shake out over and over again. Which means that, once the big move has happened, not enough tends to happen after that because the chase is usually irrelevant meaning there's no pressure from behind. So either you have a stalemate from then until an explosive finale (like Ronde 2023), which is good but not out of this world, or a long solo with zero doubt to the outcome (like today), which gets boring pretty fast.

Now, Roubaix is still the best classic of them all, and why is that? A big reason is that random riders still pop up deep into the finale there - Degenkolb resurfacing for the first time in half a decade last year, Devriendt randomly coming 4th the year before that and so on. In other words, it has defied any recent negative trends to a greater extent than any other race. And, so long as it continues to do so, it will remain the greatest race the sport has to offer.

 

[staubsauger]

It can't be extraordinary & special every time. Because then it wouldn't be special, but normal.

This was a fine classic. Only after the 22 & 23 classics season, especially 23, this E3 only felt decent.

Sometimes cycling fans are collectively in Dysthymia. Like, it needs to be legendary to not be grumpy about it!

 

[Nick2413]

It’s kind of like how so many people stick to following college sports instead of pro - there’s more uncertainty and chaos there.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Nothing from the above is 'revealing' unless you were living on a different planet the last 3-4 years.

I guess I have spent too much time on this forum reading too many conflated posts about a whole-heap-a-riders that would whoop Van der Poel this season. Maybe those suggestions have now been put to rest?

 

[Brullnux]

You mean 2016, right?

Yeah sorry, the Hayman edition.

Liège was the same version of the same bad race in 2022 and 2023. Roubaix was already usually awesome in the 2010s and therefore hasn't really changed much, also last year's race had very little happen after the initial split until the decisive mechanical. Amstel already came good in the 2010s once they changed the route for the 2017 edition and last year's edition was the worst on the current route - 2022 was good, perhaps also because the happy few skipped it. Ronde usually had a/the decisive moment on Hotond in the 2010s, before the final Kwaremont/Paterberg duo - I will concede that 2021, 2022 and 2023 were better than the majority of 2010s editions, though the 2020 edition was godawful (also, 2017 would easily have beaten the lot had jacketgate not happened, but that's a different story).

Look, I'm not saying that everything has become worse because it obviously hasn't. But what has gone missing from the classics, especially on the cobbles, is the dynamism. In the 2010s (and prior) you usually had 10-20 riders who could realistically play a decisive role, and therefore you got different dynamics in almost every race in every year. Currently, that pool is down to a maximum of 5 riders for nearly any given race, and so you see similar situations shake out over and over again. Which means that, once the big move has happened, not enough tends to happen after that because the chase is usually irrelevant meaning there's no pressure from behind. So either you have a stalemate from then until an explosive finale (like Ronde 2023), which is good but not out of this world, or a long solo with zero doubt to the outcome (like today), which gets boring pretty fast.

Now, Roubaix is still the best classic of them all, and why is that? A big reason is that random riders still pop up deep into the finale there - Degenkolb resurfacing for the first time in half a decade last year, Devriendt randomly coming 4th the year before that and so on. In other words, it has defied any recent negative trends to a greater extent than any other race. And, so long as it continues to do so, it will remain the greatest race the sport has to offer.

I think the general complaint re three or four super strong riders is fair, and I would prefer there to be 10 potentially decisive riders, but the period between like 2013-2018 was generally filled with negative racing in one day races and I think some here are forgetting this. Like I said, even Paris-Roubaix had some genuinely dire editions (which, in fairness, 2022 was also, but for different reasons).

This year has also had scheduling issues which have hampered enjoyment, but I think claiming the mid-2010s had better one day races than now is definitely nostalgia and/or revisionism, or driven by a dislike of Pogacar/MVDP/Wout. Most cycling fans will take three or four super strong riders having it out for 60-120 minutes than ten to twenty riders waiting for the final climb to Ans, or the Paterberg, or the Carrefour de l'Arbre, or the Cauberg, etc. Neither is perfect, but there is some doomerism here which is excessive.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Jeez, Quickstep..best placing today was 29th.

 

[tobydawq]

Jeez, Quickstep..best placing today was 29th.

What was Alaphilippe thinking? Hasn't he ever heard of the principle of conserving energy once in a while?

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

These classics feel like CX races at this point

A cold day, MVDP and WVA at the front, and midway through the race we see Yserbyt on the side of the road.

 

[Didinho]

Per Strand Hagenes broke his nose in 2 places.

 

[staubsauger]

Per Strand Hagenes broke his nose in 2 places.

Ouch!

Hopefully he finds a Persian doctor!

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Brussenskiy has now finally been classed as DNF. That took a while.

 

[RedheadDane]

What was Alaphilippe thinking? Hasn't he ever heard of the principle of conserving energy once in a while?

I think we all know the answer to that question...

 

[topcat]

The state of cycling is absolutely alarming

The state of the forum is batshit also. Nibali and Red Rick retire and it all goes to ***.

 

[hayneplane]

What was Alaphilippe thinking? Hasn't he ever heard of the principle of conserving energy once in a while?

Conserving energy is only useful if you actually have anything to contribute deep into the race. If you know you don’t have it you might as well be a bit pointlessly flashy rather than just anonymous from start to finish.

 

[staubsauger]

Brussenskiy has now finally been classed as DNF. That took a while.

But he was that Astana rider in the white jersey that crossed the finish line surprisingly early?

 

[Volderke]

I guess I have spent too much time on this forum reading too many conflated posts about a whole-heap-a-riders that would whoop Van der Poel this season. Maybe those suggestions have now been put to rest?

You have quotes? I see a general consensus mvdp is nearly unbeatable when he’s on form.

 

[AmRacer]

You have quotes? I see a general consensus mvdp is nearly unbeatable when he’s on foform.

In races which suits him, yes.