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Re: Cannondale Pro Cycling

pastronef said:
Anderis said:
Five-year deal! Vaughters' haters who were hoping the team would fold must be unhappy now!
there was some user, I guess on the Clinic, saying what he wishes the most in pro-cycling, is seeing JV team shut down

I am very happy the teams continues
I wouldn't say I that I wanted the team to fold but I did want to see the back of Vaughters, I just don't think he's upto the job which is why Slipstream struggles to secure enough sponsorship dollars. If the same problem keeps occurring then at some stage you have to ask yourself why?
 
Jun 26, 2012
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Koren wasn't too happy with selection process for the Tour. He found out only on Monday that he will do le Tour. He said he doesn't know what is going on in the team.
 
Re: Cannondale Pro Cycling

StryderHells said:
pastronef said:
Anderis said:
Five-year deal! Vaughters' haters who were hoping the team would fold must be unhappy now!
there was some user, I guess on the Clinic, saying what he wishes the most in pro-cycling, is seeing JV team shut down

I am very happy the teams continues
I wouldn't say I that I wanted the team to fold but I did want to see the back of Vaughters, I just don't think he's upto the job which is why Slipstream struggles to secure enough sponsorship dollars. If the same problem keeps occurring then at some stage you have to ask yourself why?
The reason why is not complicated.

The sponsorship market in professional cycling has been enormously distorted by teams with backing from quasi-national setups or rich individuals willing to plough large sums into running teams on a non-commercial basis. That has raised the amount of money it takes to be competitive enormously. That in turn has left purely commercial sponsors paying more for less success. Which makes commercial sponsorship a less attractive proposition than it might otherwise be. Which shrinks the already small pool of commercial sponsors available to teams without a non-commercial backer willing to bankroll them.

Slipstream actually do have a rich backer, but not one who is simply going to hand them the kind of budget we are talking about. They are dependent on actual commercial sponsorship. There isn't enough of that to go around. Unless a team is lucky enough to find an Omega Pharma or similar, they are going to be perpetually scrabbling for enough sponsorship money to reach mid table in the WT.

That won't change if Vaughters goes, unless he's replaced by on oligarch.
 
Re: Cannondale Pro Cycling

Zinoviev Letter said:
StryderHells said:
pastronef said:
Anderis said:
Five-year deal! Vaughters' haters who were hoping the team would fold must be unhappy now!
there was some user, I guess on the Clinic, saying what he wishes the most in pro-cycling, is seeing JV team shut down

I am very happy the teams continues
I wouldn't say I that I wanted the team to fold but I did want to see the back of Vaughters, I just don't think he's upto the job which is why Slipstream struggles to secure enough sponsorship dollars. If the same problem keeps occurring then at some stage you have to ask yourself why?
The reason why is not complicated.

The sponsorship market in professional cycling has been enormously distorted by teams with backing from quasi-national setups or rich individuals willing to plough large sums into running teams on a non-commercial basis. That has raised the amount of money it takes to be competitive enormously. That in turn has left purely commercial sponsors paying more for less success. Which makes commercial sponsorship a less attractive proposition than it might otherwise be. Which shrinks the already small pool of commercial sponsors available to teams without a non-commercial backer willing to bankroll them.

Slipstream actually do have a rich backer, but not one who is simply going to hand them the kind of budget we are talking about. They are dependent on actual commercial sponsorship. There isn't enough of that to go around. Unless a team is lucky enough to find an Omega Pharma or similar, they are going to be perpetually scrabbling for enough sponsorship money to reach mid table in the WT.

That won't change if Vaughters goes, unless he's replaced by on oligarch.
Garmin-Tinkoff???
 

ski

Aug 5, 2015
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Re: Cannondale-Drapac

StryderHells said:
Anderis said:
I wonder if Gavin Mannion will make it to the Cannondale-Drapac too. He was a trainee at the team in 2014 and did good work for Danielson during Tour of Utah. For me it really loked like he was going to join them for 2015 but then the Cannondale merge happened and they needed to honour the contracts of 7 riders from former Italian team.
I've read an interview with Mannion few months ago and IIRC he said he had been close to signing for a WT team for 2015, but then something out of his control happened and he didn't get a contract eventually. It really sounded like he could be referring to Garmin-Cannondale merge.

Also Tom Scully was a trainee at Garmin in the past.
Mannion should get a contract along with Scully and Canty, others in with a shot would be Clarke, Norris, Jones (might stay another season with the devo squad). The others will either move on or stay in with the devo squad
With all due respect Mannion is a nice guy, but he is not yet lighting it up in the US races or the other 2.1/2.2 they are doing - he will have no chance of being relevant at the WT level right now. The same applies to some of their other riders. Don't get me wrong they are great riders - but most likley most of them need to develop more at the lower level.

At this point Cannondale-Drapac has the 2 neo-pro positions they will fill, but after that, most of the new riders they sign need to be able to podium at PCT level races. As an example Wouter Wippert was at Drapac last year and had five wins and 18 top 10s last year and no wins, this year but 5 podiums and 10 top tens, so far.

According to procyclingstats only Canty has been signed for 2017 so far. There will be more.

For analysis of the Drapac performance this year - http://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?id=1164&c=7&season=2016 - clearly some good performances for a small pro conti team.
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

ski said:
StryderHells said:
Anderis said:
I wonder if Gavin Mannion will make it to the Cannondale-Drapac too. He was a trainee at the team in 2014 and did good work for Danielson during Tour of Utah. For me it really loked like he was going to join them for 2015 but then the Cannondale merge happened and they needed to honour the contracts of 7 riders from former Italian team.
I've read an interview with Mannion few months ago and IIRC he said he had been close to signing for a WT team for 2015, but then something out of his control happened and he didn't get a contract eventually. It really sounded like he could be referring to Garmin-Cannondale merge.

Also Tom Scully was a trainee at Garmin in the past.
Mannion should get a contract along with Scully and Canty, others in with a shot would be Clarke, Norris, Jones (might stay another season with the devo squad). The others will either move on or stay in with the devo squad
With all due respect Mannion is a nice guy, but he is not yet lighting it up in the US races or the other 2.1/2.2 they are doing - he will have no chance of being relevant at the WT level right now. The same applies to some of their other riders. Don't get me wrong they are great riders - but most likley most of them need to develop more at the lower level.

At this point Cannondale-Drapac has the 2 neo-pro positions they will fill, but after that, most of the new riders they sign need to be able to podium at PCT level races. As an example Wouter Wippert was at Drapac last year and had five wins and 18 top 10s last year and no wins, this year but 5 podiums and 10 top tens, so far.

According to procyclingstats only Canty has been signed for 2017 so far. There will be more.

For analysis of the Drapac performance this year - http://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?id=1164&c=7&season=2016 - clearly some good performances for a small pro conti team.
I'm aware that Mannion isn't doing that well but I was just playing out who might get a contract with the WT squad next season, if I was being brutally honest I'd only promote Canty at this stage but even he could do with another season at PCT. The one advantage for Canty being on a WT squad is the experience and being sent to more climbing orientated races which obviously suit him.
On Wippert, he won't ever be top tier but should make a solid pro. It's no surprise he is struggling a bit with the step up to WT level, he's in a squad that basically has no sprint train to speak of so he's fending for himself for the most part against teams and sprinters who are well drilled, at least when he was with Drapac he got meaningful support.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lachy Norris got a contract, he's a pretty solid type who can get over hills and would make a good Dom in some of the 1 week races and a stage hunter in the weaker one's like Utah. Will Clarke is pretty handy aswell but I'm not sure if he would be interested in stepping back upto the top level.
 
Re: Re:

StryderHells said:
Kazistuta said:
claude cat said:
Canty will give them a future GC prospect too.
Based on what? One decent performance in Oman, behind notorious climbing legend George Bennett? :razz:
Do you know much about him? Took up cycling late and has come a long way in a very short time, he's still got a lot to learn and is quite talented, he will make a good climber and will win races but I doubt he will be a big star
No,I don't know a lot about Canty. But recently I see a lot of posters hyping Canty to the state where I just have to say "take a chill pill and let's see". I see no evidence that he's gonna be great,but a decent domestique probably yeah. It's just that some in here (not in this thread necessarily,but in other threads as well) are making him out to be the next big climber,and I just don't see that.
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

Too bad that Howes didn't manage to join to Barta, Voss and Howard immediately. He would be the favourite for KOM on those hills IMO.

On the other hand, Rolland seemed to be well positioned most of the time.
 
Re: Re:

Kazistuta said:
StryderHells said:
Kazistuta said:
claude cat said:
Canty will give them a future GC prospect too.
Based on what? One decent performance in Oman, behind notorious climbing legend George Bennett? :razz:
Do you know much about him? Took up cycling late and has come a long way in a very short time, he's still got a lot to learn and is quite talented, he will make a good climber and will win races but I doubt he will be a big star
No,I don't know a lot about Canty. But recently I see a lot of posters hyping Canty to the state where I just have to say "take a chill pill and let's see". I see no evidence that he's gonna be great,but a decent domestique probably yeah. It's just that some in here (not in this thread necessarily,but in other threads as well) are making him out to be the next big climber,and I just don't see that.
I don't think he will be the next big climbing thing but I do think he will make a solid WT pro
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

Alexandre B. said:
Anderis said:
Too bad that Howes didn't manage to join to Barta, Voss and Howard immediately. He would be the favourite for KOM on those hills IMO.

On the other hand, Rolland seemed to be well positioned most of the time.
I still can't believe it. :D
Don't worry, it's Pierre Rolland. He's still got plenty of opportunities to lose time on an innocuous looking flat stage :D
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

StryderHells said:
ski said:
StryderHells said:
Anderis said:
I wonder if Gavin Mannion will make it to the Cannondale-Drapac too. He was a trainee at the team in 2014 and did good work for Danielson during Tour of Utah. For me it really loked like he was going to join them for 2015 but then the Cannondale merge happened and they needed to honour the contracts of 7 riders from former Italian team.
I've read an interview with Mannion few months ago and IIRC he said he had been close to signing for a WT team for 2015, but then something out of his control happened and he didn't get a contract eventually. It really sounded like he could be referring to Garmin-Cannondale merge.

Also Tom Scully was a trainee at Garmin in the past.
Mannion should get a contract along with Scully and Canty, others in with a shot would be Clarke, Norris, Jones (might stay another season with the devo squad). The others will either move on or stay in with the devo squad
With all due respect Mannion is a nice guy, but he is not yet lighting it up in the US races or the other 2.1/2.2 they are doing - he will have no chance of being relevant at the WT level right now. The same applies to some of their other riders. Don't get me wrong they are great riders - but most likley most of them need to develop more at the lower level.

At this point Cannondale-Drapac has the 2 neo-pro positions they will fill, but after that, most of the new riders they sign need to be able to podium at PCT level races. As an example Wouter Wippert was at Drapac last year and had five wins and 18 top 10s last year and no wins, this year but 5 podiums and 10 top tens, so far.

According to procyclingstats only Canty has been signed for 2017 so far. There will be more.

For analysis of the Drapac performance this year - http://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?id=1164&c=7&season=2016 - clearly some good performances for a small pro conti team.
I'm aware that Mannion isn't doing that well but I was just playing out who might get a contract with the WT squad next season, if I was being brutally honest I'd only promote Canty at this stage but even he could do with another season at PCT. The one advantage for Canty being on a WT squad is the experience and being sent to more climbing orientated races which obviously suit him.
On Wippert, he won't ever be top tier but should make a solid pro. It's no surprise he is struggling a bit with the step up to WT level, he's in a squad that basically has no sprint train to speak of so he's fending for himself for the most part against teams and sprinters who are well drilled, at least when he was with Drapac he got meaningful support.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lachy Norris got a contract, he's a pretty solid type who can get over hills and would make a good Dom in some of the 1 week races and a stage hunter in the weaker one's like Utah. Will Clarke is pretty handy aswell but I'm not sure if he would be interested in stepping back upto the top level.
Lachlan Norris would be the obvious name to jump up from Drapac, Koning might be another, along with Brenton Jones, who could make a good leadout man.

Canty, Mannion, Phelan, Lowndes and Spokes IMO need another year at Pro Conti level, or maybe a stagiaire ride to see if they're WT level. They do seem promising, but only Canty and Phelan are really standing out ATM. As said above, I doubt that the likes of Clarke, Brown and Mouris will want to/be able to go back to WT for various reasons.

Others like Kerby, Meyer, Sulzberger, Earle and Roe are racing at their correct level. As soon as the big boys turn up they're found wanting.
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

42x16ss said:
StryderHells said:
ski said:
StryderHells said:
Anderis said:
I wonder if Gavin Mannion will make it to the Cannondale-Drapac too. He was a trainee at the team in 2014 and did good work for Danielson during Tour of Utah. For me it really loked like he was going to join them for 2015 but then the Cannondale merge happened and they needed to honour the contracts of 7 riders from former Italian team.
I've read an interview with Mannion few months ago and IIRC he said he had been close to signing for a WT team for 2015, but then something out of his control happened and he didn't get a contract eventually. It really sounded like he could be referring to Garmin-Cannondale merge.

Also Tom Scully was a trainee at Garmin in the past.
Mannion should get a contract along with Scully and Canty, others in with a shot would be Clarke, Norris, Jones (might stay another season with the devo squad). The others will either move on or stay in with the devo squad
With all due respect Mannion is a nice guy, but he is not yet lighting it up in the US races or the other 2.1/2.2 they are doing - he will have no chance of being relevant at the WT level right now. The same applies to some of their other riders. Don't get me wrong they are great riders - but most likley most of them need to develop more at the lower level.

At this point Cannondale-Drapac has the 2 neo-pro positions they will fill, but after that, most of the new riders they sign need to be able to podium at PCT level races. As an example Wouter Wippert was at Drapac last year and had five wins and 18 top 10s last year and no wins, this year but 5 podiums and 10 top tens, so far.

According to procyclingstats only Canty has been signed for 2017 so far. There will be more.

For analysis of the Drapac performance this year - http://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?id=1164&c=7&season=2016 - clearly some good performances for a small pro conti team.
I'm aware that Mannion isn't doing that well but I was just playing out who might get a contract with the WT squad next season, if I was being brutally honest I'd only promote Canty at this stage but even he could do with another season at PCT. The one advantage for Canty being on a WT squad is the experience and being sent to more climbing orientated races which obviously suit him.
On Wippert, he won't ever be top tier but should make a solid pro. It's no surprise he is struggling a bit with the step up to WT level, he's in a squad that basically has no sprint train to speak of so he's fending for himself for the most part against teams and sprinters who are well drilled, at least when he was with Drapac he got meaningful support.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lachy Norris got a contract, he's a pretty solid type who can get over hills and would make a good Dom in some of the 1 week races and a stage hunter in the weaker one's like Utah. Will Clarke is pretty handy aswell but I'm not sure if he would be interested in stepping back upto the top level.
Lachlan Norris would be the obvious name to jump up from Drapac, Koning might be another, along with Brenton Jones, who could make a good leadout man.

Canty, Mannion, Phelan, Lowndes and Spokes IMO need another year at Pro Conti level, or maybe a stagiaire ride to see if they're WT level. They do seem promising, but only Canty and Phelan are really standing out ATM. As said above, I doubt that the likes of Clarke, Brown and Mouris will want to/be able to go back to WT for various reasons.

Others like Kerby, Meyer, Sulzberger, Earle and Roe are racing at their correct level. As soon as the big boys turn up they're found wanting.
Jones could use another season in the lower ranks, pretty sure Canty will be on the WT roster seeing as he already has a contract for next season. Forgot about Phelan, feels like he's been around forever but is only 24 so maybe another year in the Devo squad and he might get a chance. You are pretty much right about the rest of the guys who should be looking for a squad who races NRS and in Asia
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Let's not kid ourselves, the most valuable contribution Drapac will bring to this team will be the bucks, not the cyclists.
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

StryderHells said:
42x16ss said:
StryderHells said:
ski said:
StryderHells said:
[quote="
Mannion should get a contract along with Scully and Canty, others in with a shot would be Clarke, Norris, Jones (might stay another season with the devo squad). The others will either move on or stay in with the devo squad
With all due respect Mannion is a nice guy, but he is not yet lighting it up in the US races or the other 2.1/2.2 they are doing - he will have no chance of being relevant at the WT level right now. The same applies to some of their other riders. Don't get me wrong they are great riders - but most likley most of them need to develop more at the lower level.

At this point Cannondale-Drapac has the 2 neo-pro positions they will fill, but after that, most of the new riders they sign need to be able to podium at PCT level races. As an example Wouter Wippert was at Drapac last year and had five wins and 18 top 10s last year and no wins, this year but 5 podiums and 10 top tens, so far.

According to procyclingstats only Canty has been signed for 2017 so far. There will be more.

For analysis of the Drapac performance this year - http://www.procyclingstats.com/team.php?id=1164&c=7&season=2016 - clearly some good performances for a small pro conti team.
I'm aware that Mannion isn't doing that well but I was just playing out who might get a contract with the WT squad next season, if I was being brutally honest I'd only promote Canty at this stage but even he could do with another season at PCT. The one advantage for Canty being on a WT squad is the experience and being sent to more climbing orientated races which obviously suit him.
On Wippert, he won't ever be top tier but should make a solid pro. It's no surprise he is struggling a bit with the step up to WT level, he's in a squad that basically has no sprint train to speak of so he's fending for himself for the most part against teams and sprinters who are well drilled, at least when he was with Drapac he got meaningful support.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lachy Norris got a contract, he's a pretty solid type who can get over hills and would make a good Dom in some of the 1 week races and a stage hunter in the weaker one's like Utah. Will Clarke is pretty handy aswell but I'm not sure if he would be interested in stepping back upto the top level.
Lachlan Norris would be the obvious name to jump up from Drapac, Koning might be another, along with Brenton Jones, who could make a good leadout man.

Canty, Mannion, Phelan, Lowndes and Spokes IMO need another year at Pro Conti level, or maybe a stagiaire ride to see if they're WT level. They do seem promising, but only Canty and Phelan are really standing out ATM. As said above, I doubt that the likes of Clarke, Brown and Mouris will want to/be able to go back to WT for various reasons.

Others like Kerby, Meyer, Sulzberger, Earle and Roe are racing at their correct level. As soon as the big boys turn up they're found wanting.
Jones could use another season in the lower ranks, pretty sure Canty will be on the WT roster seeing as he already has a contract for next season. Forgot about Phelan, feels like he's been around forever but is only 24 so maybe another year in the Devo squad and he might get a chance. You are pretty much right about the rest of the guys who should be looking for a squad who races NRS and in Asia
If the combined Drapac/Pat's Veg team stays at Pro Conti then I'd say the likes of Kerby, Meyer, Sulzberger, Earle and Roe should stay, but if they drop to Conti then start looking. They're all Pro Conti quality, just no higher (although Kerby and Roe have plenty of time to improve).

IMO the biggest disappointment is that the best looking kit in the peloton will be leaving :(
 
Re: Cannondale-Drapac

Navardauskas did good job to protect him today. Once I even saw Rolland 2nd in the peloton on Navardauskas' wheel within 10k to go. :surprised:

I have to be worried. The only other time their GC rider was being protected so well on the flat stages by the team was Talansky in 2014 and we know how did that end up.
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
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Rolland finally having a team that is finally able to protect him durning the first week is bad news for his opponents, top 5 or even more wouldn't surprise me.
 

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