Efficacy of reconnaissance

[Ashtabula]

As this encounter shows, the top pros think it's worth doing. Why? Would the road be that different from previous years, or is it a psychological effect?

It's cold up there at the end of May, won't it be a different place, with different surfaces, etc. in the middle of July?

 

[ScottyMuser]

As this encounter shows, the top pros think it's worth doing. Why? Would the road be that different from previous years, or is it a psychological effect?

It's cold up there at the end of May, won't it be a different place, with different surfaces, etc. in the middle of July?

possibly because in most years, races change their routes. Especially as this seems to be, if I read it correctly, somewhere in the TDF, which has exactly ONE road the same this year, and thats the finishing line in the champs elysees, which a) nobody reconoiters as everybody knows and b) is clearly not that one

 

[Christian]

It's the biggest race of the year which they both absolutely want to win so they don't want to leave anything to chance and try to be as prepared as they can!

- Where are the steepest/most difficult passages?

- Where could I attack?

- How long is it?/How much energy do I have to save?

They also brought their teammates along, maybe to work out different tactics. J. Fuglsang missed some planes though from what it seems like so he was late and M. Breschel probably won't be that big of a help for the Schlecks on Tourmalet. Contador brought the whole team though

What I just think is so great is that these guys really seem to get along well, despite being opponents. I think that shows great sportsmanship of both sides and maybe even throws a little bit of a bad light on Armstrong. I remember Andy saying in a radio interview one time that it was a little difficult sometimes to talk to Contador since he does not seem to speak much English, but that they get along pretty well. They also do several post-tour criteriums together every year. Here's what it says on AC's twitter (don't know whether he wrote it himself because it's in pretty good English):

Long day of training with the mythic Tourmalet on the top a surprise,my friends the Schleck brothers,good guys

But that's all off topic, sorry!

 

[alberto.legstrong]

As this encounter shows, the top pros think it's worth doing. Why? Would the road be that different from previous years, or is it a psychological effect?

It's cold up there at the end of May, won't it be a different place, with different surfaces, etc. in the middle of July?

Do you ride a bike? I do and have never raced but I know when on a spirited ride with others, I am much more tentative on roads I am unfamiliar with. eg, That hill up ahead could be short, or it could take a left turn up a tw0t of a hill that could wreck me if I attacked right here, but if I use my knowledge of the route to time my move....

Bot Line: I can go a lot more quickly if I know the route.

AC looks a lot friendlier in the photo than AS. Of course it could be just one poorly representative photo, but it still tells a story

 

[Ashtabula]

Tourmalet.

And he was coming up one way, the Schlecks the other, and I doubt there are more than two. Or have ever been.

 

[Publicus]

Tourmalet.

And he was coming up one way, the Schlecks the other, and I doubt there are more than two. Or have ever been.

More than two what?

 

[Nicoper]

Ways to get to the top.

 

[cyclopeon]

Do you ride a bike? I do and have never raced but I know when on a spirited ride with others, I am much more tentative on roads I am unfamiliar with. eg, That hill up ahead could be short, or it could take a left turn up a tw0t of a hill that could wreck me if I attacked right here, but if I use my knowledge of the route to time my move....

Bot Line: I can go a lot more quickly if I know the route.

AC looks a lot friendlier in the photo than AS. Of course it could be just one poorly representative photo, but it still tells a story

I think AS just looks cold!!

It's true, a familiar road seems so much shorter and easier.

And for he who commented on the language barrier, Contador's English is getting pretty good, and is better every time he does an interview in it. A work in progress that I think he continues to put good effort into.

 

[Ashtabula]

It does seem that AC is rehearsing the stage, with his key support riders in attendance. I presume that he is traveling up the route the Tour will take.

The Schlecks are coming the other way, so they are not rehearsing the stage. They must be training, riding a long climb to high altitude in one of the few places you can do it in Europe.

Or is that right? Might there be plenty of other mountain roads in the Alps, or even in other ranges, that could do equally well?

I think weather must be a factor much of the year, on mountaintops.

 

[Frosty]

It does seem that AC is rehearsing the stage, with his key support riders in attendance. I presume that he is traveling up the route the Tour will take.

The Schlecks are coming the other way, so they are not rehearsing the stage. They must be training, riding a long climb to high altitude in one of the few places you can do it in Europe.

The tour goes up both sides of the tourmalet this year, from the east on stage 16 and from the west on stage 17. So they were probably just trying the routes of the different stages.

 

[Christian]

AC looks a lot friendlier in the photo than AS. Of course it could be just one poorly representative photo, but it still tells a story

Here's the picture from AC's twitter:

http://tweetphoto.com/24940962


God dammit if only I knew how to post pictures on this forum
I mean it says "copy picture URL" but that never works! Someone told me to right-click on the picture and click "copy image location" but my computers are in French and German and I don't find anything that would correspond to that
Hence the link and no picture.

 

[Ashtabula]

The tour goes up both sides of the tourmalet this year, from the east on stage 16 and from the west on stage 17. So they were probably just trying the routes of the different stages.

Aha! that's the detail that makes sense of it.

I'm still with Vino about reconnaissance: find a mountain in a warm climate, like the one he uses in Tenerife, and figure you're not likely to get lost on the day of the race.

 

[Willy_Voet]

God dammit if only I knew how to post pictures on this forum
I mean it says "copy picture URL" but that never works! Someone told me to right-click on the picture and click "copy image location" but my computers are in French and German and I don't find anything that would correspond to that
Hence the link and no picture.

1. Right click on the image
2. from the menu select something to the effect of "properties" (whatever that might be in French or German )
3. Look for the address (or location)
4. Highlight it
5. Copy it
6. Paste it into box provided for the picture link above.

 

[Publicus]

Here's the picture from AC's twitter:

http://tweetphoto.com/24940962


God dammit if only I knew how to post pictures on this forum
I mean it says "copy picture URL" but that never works! Someone told me to right-click on the picture and click "copy image location" but my computers are in French and German and I don't find anything that would correspond to that
Hence the link and no picture.

Here you go:

 

[altark123]

Where is Hog spouting off about how LA isn't doing any recon this year and the other guys are and blah blah blah.... he was dogging him for not reconning like two months ago. I said it then, I'll say it again, it wasn't possible to recon until recently due to weather....


And how many of these roads has Lance not ridden before? You'd imagine he's seen many of them.

 

[Angliru]

Do you ride a bike? I do and have never raced but I know when on a spirited ride with others, I am much more tentative on roads I am unfamiliar with. eg, That hill up ahead could be short, or it could take a left turn up a tw0t of a hill that could wreck me if I attacked right here, but if I use my knowledge of the route to time my move....

Bot Line: I can go a lot more quickly if I know the route.

AC looks a lot friendlier in the photo than AS. Of course it could be just one poorly representative photo, but it still tells a story

You can't make a judgement based on one frame of an encounter frozen in time. It's my understanding that Contador and Andy Schleck and probably Frank also have spent time together in the off season. It's not a front that they get along as far as from what I've read.

I agree with your first paragraph entirely. Being unfamiliar with a route, especially a climb can be one's undoing. Put too much energy into the start of a climb that you know little about can leave you sputtering off the back.

 

[Ashtabula]

Where is Hog spouting off about how LA isn't doing any recon this year and the other guys are and blah blah blah.... he was dogging him for not reconning like two months ago. I said it then, I'll say it again, it wasn't possible to recon until recently due to weather....

Looks like it's barely possible now: the non-riding support guys in these pictures are warmly dressed but look cold. AC looks like he's dressed for the 'cross World's.

 

[benpounder]

...the top pros think it's worth doing. Why?

It is very much worth doing. Familiarity with the route, length, difficulty are valuable before racing said route. Furthermore, each route has nuances that can give a rider an edge. Where are the gradient changes? Where is the wind likely to come from? Where are the shady zones? Where does water pool on the road? Where are the problematic road surfaces? Which corners have room for error and which dont? What are the roads like coming into a critical section? Where are large vs small vs solo breaks likely to succeed?

Being from Chicago, I'd guess you know baseball. And if so, why do hitters scout a pitcher (or visa versa) that they are likely to encounter? Same reason riders reconnoiter the roads they will race.

 

[thehog]

It is very much worth doing. Familiarity with the route, length, difficulty are valuable before racing said route. Furthermore, each route has nuances that can give a rider an edge. Where are the gradient changes? Where is the wind likely to come from? Where are the shady zones? Where does water pool on the road? Where are the problematic road surfaces? Which corners have room for error and which dont? What are the roads like coming into a critical section? Where are large vs small vs solo breaks likely to succeed?

Being from Chicago, I'd guess you know baseball. And if so, why do hitters scout a pitcher (or visa versa) that they are likely to encounter? Same reason riders reconnoiter the roads they will race.

The gearing. Choosing the correct gearing.

 

[thehog]

Where is Hog spouting off about how LA isn't doing any recon this year and the other guys are and blah blah blah.... he was dogging him for not reconning like two months ago. I said it then, I'll say it again, it wasn't possible to recon until recently due to weather....


And how many of these roads has Lance not ridden before? You'd imagine he's seen many of them.

So you where there in the mountains prior to May yes? Fool. I was there and there was very little snow.

So where is he now? Riding the Alpine ranges in Luxembourg? Scary. Andy and Alberto look worried.

You can imagine the picture caption the photo just printed: “Hola Andy! Hey did you see an old man wearing an red jersey with a really big gut being pushed up by his team support car” – “Sure did Conti. Should have seen him in Cali. He’s one fat b=stard. You’d better watch out come July he might try to eat you he’s so hungry!” – “Yo, Franky Bro lets go hit the clubs after this. I got the taste for some yank girls after Cali. You should have seen Fab. He 8 girls on each thigh!”

 

[enrecul]

accomodation

also, its a good idea to reccy the hotels they will use etc.....transfer times etc.....its all good info and useful for the big day......also riding up roads which might decide the tour result is good for visualisation etc......it cant be a bad thing to know when you are going to have your belgian mix and where!

 

[benpounder]

The gearing. Choosing the correct gearing.

Well, truth be told, sometimes I recon a route so that I can chose the right riding ensemble. I hate it when my kit clashes with the enviroment.

 

[altark123]

So you where there in the mountains prior to May yes? Fool. I was there and there was very little snow.

So where is he now? Riding the Alpine ranges in Luxembourg? Scary. Andy and Alberto look worried.

You can imagine the picture caption the photo just printed: “Hola Andy! Hey did you see an old man wearing an red jersey with a really big gut being pushed up by his team support car” – “Sure did Conti. Should have seen him in Cali. He’s one fat b=stard. You’d better watch out come July he might try to eat you he’s so hungry!” – “Yo, Franky Bro lets go hit the clubs after this. I got the taste for some yank girls after Cali. You should have seen Fab. He 8 girls on each thigh!”

Gentlemen's bet he recons before Le Tour? Post Lux and pre Suisse I am thinking he will do so. I am not a fool, by the way and either are the Schleks or AC for reconning this week. You were on here literally 3 weeks+ ago questioning why LA hadn't been reconning yet, so why didn't question the other guys? Maybe they all know better than us.....

 

[theswordsman]

As this encounter shows, the top pros think it's worth doing. Why? Would the road be that different from previous years, or is it a psychological effect?

It's cold up there at the end of May, won't it be a different place, with different surfaces, etc. in the middle of July?

The course and the climbs change every year, so they haven't seen it much. This year they go up the Tourmalet twice, I believe once each way on different days, so that would make a difference. The Tourmalet was used in the Tour in 2006, 2008, and 2009. Contador wasn't allowed to race in 2006 or 2008, so last year was probably his first time on the climb (I haven't checked the Dauphine).

There's no reason to think that he did it perfectly the first time, and couldn't find a way to do it better this year. Also, he could see which teammates were able to ride with him, and start strategizing together.

Just riding an Hors Categorie climb is a big part of preparation. The riders can decide which sections suit their own characteristics for an attack, and where other riders might put them in danger.

Evans said that when his DS took him on recon of the Mur de Huy this year, he realized he'd been riding it wrong all the other years. He credited that with his win over Contador.

At Paris-Nice, the Caisse DS scouted one stage in advance by car and told the team that they should attack on a certain curve and take advantage of the wind to cause a separation.

At the Tour last year, the famous break by Columbia in which Armstrong put time on Contador was a result of another recon drive by someone on the team. That, like Paris-Nice, wasn't some master stroke by a more experienced rider - it was decided by staff in the team bus. That's why I laugh when people say the wind is Contador's kryptonite. What he doesn't seem to have is someone doing course recon for him in advance.

 

[thehog]

Gentlemen's bet he recons before Le Tour? Post Lux and pre Suisse I am thinking he will do so. I am not a fool, by the way and either are the Schleks or AC for reconning this week. You were on here literally 3 weeks+ ago questioning why LA hadn't been reconning yet, so why didn't question the other guys? Maybe they all know better than us.....

Contador reconned prior to CI then reconned the cobbled stage with PVP post classics. Your boy was busy with his gut and reconning his closet in Girona.

Don't waste my time.

Recon between Lux & TDS? So when's he going to fit time in for the Feds?

Funny thing about blood doping. Makes mountains flat.

Lot to learn. Re-stated.